Opinions on the value of an LT40 Super (sitting and little use last 5 years)

WoodenHead · August 31, 2013, 06:46:57 AM

Not that I am looking at mills, but a person is offering me a 2007 LT40 Super Hydraulic with Kubota engine (42HP I believe) for about $18,000. It has a good number of options (de-barker, lubemizer, autoclutch, Accuset (1 not 2)) and is a remote (i.e. the console is fixed at the tongue of the mill). The owner bought it in 2008 with 1000 hours on it and put only 200 hours on it himself in the last 5-6 years.

The downside is that it has been sitting in the open (sometimes covered with covers and/or tarps), but lately just in the open. Some of the metal work (particularly around the bandwheel covers) is showing signs of rust from what I can see of the pictures, but not excessive. Sometime ago when he was asking a whole lot more, I was going to take a look at it, but gave up on it because he needed to get a new battery for it/boost it. For the price he was originally asking it should have been in tip-top shape. I'm not sure it has even been started in a year or more.

If I remember correctly (this was about 6+ months ago since I last investigated) the Orange estimate came in between $20,000 and $25,000. Woodmizer indicated that I would have to upgrade to Accuset 2 if there was any problems with Accuset.

I'm just looking for your thoughts as to whether this is worthwhile to pursue. I have a mill and I'm fine with it. A diesel super would be great, but I'll chase this one only if it is a good deal.

ladylake · August 31, 2013, 07:03:43 AM

Sounds good for a mill that sells for around $40000 new. Sure shouldn't lose much more value than it has. If your running a gas that diesel with save you lots of fuel. Steve

dgdrls · August 31, 2013, 07:19:08 AM

Good morning WH,

18K is a lot of $ for a 40 series that has been sitting without care.

New 40SH is 34K+without options 2013 model, my initial thoughts on used stuff in good condition
is around 50% new cost give or take a little based on cost of machine when it was new, then I look it over learn about it and figure from there.
Inflation has added about 4K to this unit

Unless it runs well IMHO 18 K is too high,

If you can get it on the "cheap", fix it and flip it??

DGDrls

Kansas · August 31, 2013, 07:25:09 AM

I would say lowball a figure to him. Maybe 13,000 dollars. If he has come down on price, he might come down some more. Worst he can do is say no. Try to get him to talk a little bit and explain its been sitting out, and will need to be worked on before you even run it. He has only run it 200 hours; he probably won't understand that they hold up well. Also tell him that Woodmizer no longer services the Accuset 1. That it will cost to upgrade.

ladylake · August 31, 2013, 07:27:18 AM

This mill has a lot of options plus a diesel so I'd think $40000 is close to new price. Steve

WoodenHead · August 31, 2013, 07:36:00 AM

You are right ladylake. A mill with the same options is between $40-41,000 (including the $3500 off sale right now).

He won't come down in price any further. But he sad that the last time too. ;)

Magicman · August 31, 2013, 07:38:39 AM

The value for the bucks is there. I would not sell mine for 18K and it is a '98 model.

dgdrls · August 31, 2013, 07:46:38 AM

Quote from: Magicman on August 31, 2013, 07:38:39 AM
The value for the bucks is there. I would not sell mine for 18K and it is a '98 model.

MM, Yours has a new diesel and a solid maintenance program
Lord knows it has not been sitting :D

DGD

ladylake · August 31, 2013, 07:56:01 AM

I'd think if that Kubota runs good the rest couldn't cost too much too get running. Steve

WoodenHead · August 31, 2013, 08:20:16 AM

The rest of the story is that he has a 2007 WM edger and sharpener as well (and that is what I am actually interested in). Again, the edger appears a bit rough, but workable. I have not seen even pictures of the sharpener, but imagine it is in the same shape. At first he was willing to sell individually, but now wants to be rid of the whole package (mid to upper 20's).

Chuck White · August 31, 2013, 09:34:15 AM

Not sure..... but I think I'd jump on the deal, once I heard the engine run for a while!

Peter Drouin · August 31, 2013, 03:24:25 PM

Quote from: Chuck White on August 31, 2013, 09:34:15 AM
Not sure..... but I think I'd jump on the deal, once I heard the engine run for a while!

Good price

manoverboard · August 31, 2013, 03:38:41 PM

The site of 13k CASH just might change his mind...

Skidder Kev · August 31, 2013, 03:56:41 PM

I agree with chuck white I would want to hear the engine run. As for price I have no idea but I'm sure the other guys know what they are worth.
Kev

barbender · August 31, 2013, 08:06:24 PM

I bought one that had been sitting out like that, and I had to do a LOT of work to it. I would see if WM would be available to go through and do a platinum service on both units, figure that and the value of your time to get it in the operating condition you are satisfied with.

Brucer · September 01, 2013, 01:31:53 AM

I checked some pricing in Canada and an equivalent new mill would run around $40,000 as Steve said. Then I applied a depreciation formula that I got from WM a few years ago -- it came out to about $19,700, which is pretty much what WM suggested to you.

So it comes down to how well it was maintained and what shape it's in.

shelby78 · September 01, 2013, 08:26:54 AM

I was tempted by that mill the first time it was listed and i talked with him on the phone for a long time way back. I ended up passing but did notice it up for sale again. I sold my Norwood lumbermate 2000 a few months back as i made my money plus more in 7 months or so. I was tempted again when he relisted it last week but not at his price and not with accuset 1

thecfarm · September 01, 2013, 08:40:31 AM

I'm no expert,but sitting for 5 years does not help all those controller,switches and solenoids. I would think some would have to be cleaned,replaced. Would take sometime to get all of the little things worked out. I use to get 2-3 old trucks for just about nothing and make one. So I know what it's like to start with problems and end with a solution.

WoodenHead · September 01, 2013, 03:07:37 PM

Quote from: shelby78 on September 01, 2013, 08:26:54 AM
I was tempted by that mill the first time it was listed and i talked with him on the phone for a long time way back. I ended up passing but did notice it up for sale again. I sold my Norwood lumbermate 2000 a few months back as i made my money plus more in 7 months or so. I was tempted again when he relisted it last week but not at his price and not with accuset 1

Woodmizer warned me that with Accuset 1 and sitting for a long time, there was a very good chance that I would need to upgrade to Accuset 2. Here in Canada that upgrade seems to be quite pricey ($4000 I was told). The seller got a bit short with me the first time I spoke with him and suggested that his price might be too high. I politely ended things there. Now his price is lower, but I'm not sure I fully trust the man.

Quote from: thecfarm on September 01, 2013, 08:40:31 AM
I'm no expert,but sitting for 5 years does not help all those controller,switches and solenoids. I would think some would have to be cleaned,replaced. Would take sometime to get all of the little things worked out. I use to get 2-3 old trucks for just about nothing and make one. So I know what it's like to start with problems and end with a solution.

One of the worst things you can do to a piece of equipment is to let it sit. I know stuff can be replaced, but I agree that it does take time to get things worked out. Right now that is time I don't have. My plan has been to improve my material flow and I think I'll stick with that. My 28HP gas LT40 has 335hrs on it and cuts pine quite well. My bottlenecks are elsewhere and I need to spend some money on those first (sawdust removal, flitch movement, edger, slabs/edgings, larger drying shed). Eventually I would like a super or LT70, but one step at a time. Every now and then I get side-tracked with something like this. ;)

Magicman · September 01, 2013, 03:59:30 PM

Just because it is available is not enough reason to buy it. Buying needs to be your idea based on careful consideration of your present situation.

WoodenHead · September 01, 2013, 04:19:50 PM

Quote from: Magicman on September 01, 2013, 03:59:30 PM
Just because it is available is not enough reason to buy it. Buying needs to be your idea based on careful consideration of your present situation.

Right you are!

The seller's edger and auto band sharpener/setter prompted the phone call to him this time around. Unfortunately this time he was not willing to sell it separately from the mill. Six months ago I was looking for another mill (with a purpose ;)). We couldn't mutually agree on where pricing should start, so I didn't even go to look at it. Now I'm in the market for an edger and his machine comes up in a package deal. A super would be nice, but is not necessary at the moment. Admittedly it did get me dreaming though. And as someone suggested, buying and flipping is also something I've thought about, but that works best with good equipment and a good deal. ;)

outerbanxer · September 01, 2013, 04:43:46 PM

Quote from: WoodenHead on September 01, 2013, 04:19:50 PM
Quote from: Magicman on September 01, 2013, 03:59:30 PM
Just because it is available is not enough reason to buy it. Buying needs to be your idea based on careful consideration of your present situation.

Right you are! The seller's edger and auto band sharpener/setter prompted the phone call to him this time around. Unfortunately this time he was not willing to sell it separately from the mill. Six months ago I was looking for another mill (with a purpose ;)). We couldn't mutually agree on where pricing should start, so I didn't even go to look at it. Now I'm in the market for an edger and his machine comes up in a package deal. A super would be nice, but is not necessary at the moment. Admittedly it did get me dreaming though. And as someone suggested, buying and flipping is also something I've thought about, but that works best with good equipment and a good deal. ;)

I think you've already talked yourself out of it, when it comes down to the numbers and time involved.

If you really haven't, here's a thought that always comes into my mind when I start looking at the business end of my life. How much time do i have invested in this particular venture, what is my return on my time, and how much did my taking my time thinking about this venture cost me when I could be making money working.

You have already said you need an edger to up production. No problems there.

Would a brand new edger from WM (or your choice of manufacturer) up your production in order to justify the cost of purchasing one? Because WM will sell you a brand new unit and back it up without worrying about fixing things to get it running, which will cost you lost time, which will cost you lost production, hence less money, plus outlay of money to fix it.

This guy already has three strikes against him. #1 he was huffy on the phone when you gave him an offer which he thought was too low. #2 He's not in the market to haggle, otherwise he would've called you before dropping the price six months ago #3 he doesn't use the equipment, much less maintain it.

#3 would be my biggest stumbling point on this deal, because you are looking to buy something to use and make money with, not let sit around and argue with a seller how much it is worth.

In business, (and life it seems), you focus on producing. If you need an edger, one can be at your door in a week, and making you money in 2 weeks with a full warranty. It is a few hours of phone calls negotiating interest rates, or lining up payment with the bank. Not haggling over a few thousand dollars off a piece of equipment you don't need, so you can pick up part of a package deal which might not work, with no warranty, and then have to spend hours selling the mill to someone who is gonna chew you down because you didn't spend 30 hours fixing all the problems with a mill you didn't want in the first place.

Whew. I'm tired. Go finance an edger and spend your time posting up pics of new equipment ready to make you some money! ;D

WoodenHead · September 01, 2013, 05:01:00 PM

Quote from: outerbanxer on September 01, 2013, 04:43:46 PM
In business, (and life it seems), you focus on producing. If you need an edger, one can be at your door in a week, and making you money in 2 weeks with a full warranty. It is a few hours of phone calls negotiating interest rates, or lining up payment with the bank. Not haggling over a few thousand dollars off a piece of equipment you don't need, so you can pick up part of a package deal which might not work, with no warranty, and then have to spend hours selling the mill to someone who is gonna chew you down because you didn't spend 30 hours fixing all the problems with a mill you didn't want in the first place.

Whew. I'm tired. Go finance an edger and spend your time posting up pics of new equipment ready to make you some money! ;D

I need you to go talk with my wife. ;D ;)

No. Actually we (my wife and I) have been working on a no borrowing policy. We didn't know what our market was like, so to protect ourselves we agreed not to borrow in regards to this business. We are a lot more confident now and I'm more open to borrowing than I have been.

However, I'm not opposed to used equipment. If there's a business case for it, you could make new or used work. There may be a few more things to factor in when buying used, but it can be just as profitable or more so. In fact, a successful entrepreneur taught me to evaluate every opportunity/piece of equipment to see whether you can make money with. So, even though I didn't need a mill, I was looking at how I might best make use of it. Given the feedback here (thanks everyone!) and my own gut instincts, I don't think I'll pursue it any further. The edger maybe, but only after exploring some other options.

outerbanxer · September 01, 2013, 07:10:09 PM

Quote from: WoodenHead on September 01, 2013, 05:01:00 PM
Quote from: outerbanxer on September 01, 2013, 04:43:46 PM
In business, (and life it seems), you focus on producing. If you need an edger, one can be at your door in a week, and making you money in 2 weeks with a full warranty. It is a few hours of phone calls negotiating interest rates, or lining up payment with the bank. Not haggling over a few thousand dollars off a piece of equipment you don't need, so you can pick up part of a package deal which might not work, with no warranty, and then have to spend hours selling the mill to someone who is gonna chew you down because you didn't spend 30 hours fixing all the problems with a mill you didn't want in the first place.

Whew. I'm tired. Go finance an edger and spend your time posting up pics of new equipment ready to make you some money! ;D

I need you to go talk with my wife. ;D ;)

No. Actually we (my wife and I) have been working on a no borrowing policy. We didn't know what our market was like, so to protect ourselves we agreed not to borrow in regards to this business. We are a lot more confident now and I'm more open to borrowing than I have been.

However, I'm not opposed to used equipment. If there's a business case for it, you could make new or used work. There may be a few more things to factor in when buying used, but it can be just as profitable or more so. In fact, a successful entrepreneur taught me to evaluate every opportunity/piece of equipment to see whether you can make money with. So, even though I didn't need a mill, I was looking at how I might best make use of it. Given the feedback here (thanks everyone!) and my own gut instincts, I don't think I'll pursue it any further. The edger maybe, but only after exploring some other options.

No problem, and honestly, sorry I ruffled feathers if I did. i don't post much here, I just absorb info.

The person who taught you business, sounds like the person who taught me. And your Wife sounds a whole like like mine. I'd pursue other options other than trying to make this deal work. Dave Ramsey all the way! 8)

WoodenHead · September 01, 2013, 07:30:53 PM

Quote from: outerbanxer on September 01, 2013, 07:10:09 PM

No problem, and honestly, sorry I ruffled feathers if I did. i don't post much here, I just absorb info.

The person who taught you business, sounds like the person who taught me. And your Wife sounds a whole like like mine. I'd pursue other options other than trying to make this deal work. Dave Ramsey all the way! 8)

No feathers ruffled. You spoke well. ;) And welcome to the Forum!

Another thing this entrepreneur taught me is never to have only one iron in the fire. ;D