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Dremel + Al Oxide Grinding Stone + Steady Hands = Sharp Blade?

Started by Deese, August 28, 2013, 05:59:34 PM

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Deese

I PM'd a guy on here asking him his opinion on sharpening blades with a dremel tool. He suggested that I put it on the forum since we (myself included) have a bunch of new sawyers on here that may benefit from this discussion. Yes-I know it's been discussed before but after he suggested posting it---what the heck.

So here goes nothing...

     I was sawing yesterday evening when I noticed little strings of wood coming out of the cut along with fine sawdust. I've learned this means the blade is beginning to dull. Heck, I had only cut 2 pine logs (they were hard and knotty) with this new blade, and I thought how nice it would be to replace this blade with a new one and give the other one a light touch-up later on. This-upon my understanding, would increase the life of the blade. 

     So why not lay the blade down on a flat surface at a comfortable height and use my Dremel (I know what you're thinking---HERE WE GO AGAIN) tool with an Aluminum Oxide grinding stone to lightly touch things back up? And yes...OH YES...WITHOUT A JIG. I've got steady hands and patience. Go over the tooth, gullet, whole nine yards. Put on some safety glasses so you can get really close up to it, use both hands, and run the dremel at a medium rpm so not to get the blade too hot. Rediculously time consuming? Ummm...without a doubt! Is it possible? maybe. Practical in regards to time management? Absolutely Not. Practical in regards to prolonging blade life and saving some money? maybe.
    I figure that I could use the Cooks's single tooth setter to reset my teeth and correct blade deflection, keep a sharp edge on my blades with the dremel, and still use a resharp service every now and then whenever the blades really need a good professional sharpening job...

    Wouldn't I get much more life out of the blade this way compared to running them until they are super dull and then sending them to resharp service? I paid almost $500 for 20 blades and I simply must get the most out of them as possible.

     Have any of you done this and what can you say about it? (other than I'm nuts  ;D)
2004 LT40 Super 51hp w/6' bed extension
Cooks AE4P Edger
Cat Claw sharpener/Dual Tooth Setter
Kubota svl75-2 skidsteer w/grapple, forks, brushcutter
1977 Log Hog Knuckleboom loader/truck

POSTON WIDEHEAD

DO NOT run your blade to SUPER DULL before sending to re-sharp or even if you are-sharpening it yourself. They will not last long.

Not trying to make anybody upset.....cause I like ya  :).........but using blades and dulling blades and re-sharpening blades......its all part of the process of sawing lumber and making money.

I was dulling blades like crazy when I started and the re-sharp bills were costing me also.
I sat down and rethought my marketing strategy.

If I'm sawing for furniture.......I better be selling furniture.
If I'm sawing custom........I better have the jobs coming in.
If I'm sawing lumber to sell on the market........my lumber better be priced in line to where $$$$$ is coming in to pay the bills.

See what I'm saying. Now that my market plan is working and I am established......the cost of blades and re-sharp does not bother me one bit. Woodmizer does a heck of a job keeping my blades ready for sawing.

Deese, get on the blade replacement program with Woodmizer. You only buy blades as you need them. You won't need a dremil tool.
I havn'e bought a box of blades in quite a while unless I'm going to a different degree.

The older I get I wish my body could Re-Gen.

Nomad

     Deese, the idea has merit.  However, what is your time worth?  Do you realize how many teeth are on a sawmill band?  Personally, I think it would be penny wise and pound foolish.  I'd get enough bands to be able to use a resharp service and forget about it until such time as you decide to shell out for the equipment to do it efficiently yourself, if you ever do so decide.  Lots of people figure they'd rather be sawing or watching TV instead of sharpening bands.
Buying a hammer doesn't make you a carpenter
WoodMizer LT50HDD51-WR
Lucas DSM23-19

losttheplot

Keep one band aside, so you can compare the original profile to one you have sharpened a couple of times.

You could get a T.V dinner table on your lap, and sharpen bands on the couch while you watch T.V  ;)

LTP.
DON'T BELIEVE EVERYTHING YOU THINK !

bandmiller2

Deese,sufolk [timberwolf] has a sheet with plans to convert a bench grinder to sharpen bands.I did it for a wile and it works but tiring to your hands,then I sprung for Cooks cats claw.Basically you shape the grinding stone [rock to you southern boys] to the gullet grind the back of the tooth and bottom it out in the gullet.I fear you will wear out a lot of expensive grinding stones for your dremel.Sufolk even had a video showing how to sharpen with a bench grinder. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

terrifictimbersllc

Quote from: Deese on August 28, 2013, 05:59:34 PM
I PM'd a guy on here asking him his opinion on sharpening blades with a dremel tool. He suggested that I put it on the forum since we (myself included) have a bunch of new sawyers on here that may benefit from this discussion. Yes-I know it's been discussed before but after he suggested posting it---what the heck.

So here goes nothing...

     I was sawing yesterday evening when I noticed little strings of wood coming out of the cut along with fine sawdust. I've learned this means the blade is beginning to dull. Heck, I had only cut 2 pine logs (they were hard and knotty) with this new blade, and I thought how nice it would be to replace this blade with a new one and give the other one a light touch-up later on. This-upon my understanding, would increase the life of the blade. 

     So why not lay the blade down on a flat surface at a comfortable height and use my Dremel (I know what you're thinking---HERE WE GO AGAIN) tool with an Aluminum Oxide grinding stone to lightly touch things back up? And yes...OH YES...WITHOUT A JIG. I've got steady hands and patience. Go over the tooth, gullet, whole nine yards. Put on some safety glasses so you can get really close up to it, use both hands, and run the dremel at a medium rpm so not to get the blade too hot. Rediculously time consuming? Ummm...without a doubt! Is it possible? maybe. Practical in regards to time management? Absolutely Not. Practical in regards to prolonging blade life and saving some money? maybe.
    I figure that I could use the Cooks's single tooth setter to reset my teeth and correct blade deflection, keep a sharp edge on my blades with the dremel, and still use a resharp service every now and then whenever the blades really need a good professional sharpening job...

    Wouldn't I get much more life out of the blade this way compared to running them until they are super dull and then sending them to resharp service? I paid almost $500 for 20 blades and I simply must get the most out of them as possible.

     Have any of you done this and what can you say about it? (other than I'm nuts  ;D)
Blades need to have the gullet ground to eliminate cracks, to give a long life.  Running them till super dull isn't a practical option for this reason alone let alone sawing slower with less quality.   I just bought 60 blades from WM (1-1/4", 158T), for about $17.75 each incl. shipping just a bit more than half the price you quote.  No substitute for proper sharpening.  I take them down with repeated sharpenings to about 0.1" less than new, and then stop using them for production custom sawing.  Just doesn't pay for me to do otherwise.
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

Happycamper

Deese,
  Here we go again and happy you posted this.
My $.02 last winter February when I got my mill and box of blades. I dulled 3 blades and took them to the professional recommended by Woodmizer. He said one could not be sharpened and he sent the other two through the machine. The two would not cut when I got them home and the other one I hand sharpened 20 times more before it gave up. So I sharpened the remaining two many many times more and set then with "a pineywoods setter" that I made. I still have 12 new blades unused at this point and sharpen them with a 1/4" round file and a "Lasky" stone $8.00. The file costs $1.75 and does several sharpenings and the hand stone seems to last and last as it is like man a made carberundum. It takes only a few minutes to touch the blade up and I do it when I see  string or the sawdust does not look like coffee grounds. My mill slides through the fir lumber and I am now working on my third large load of fir logs. Keeping in mind that my logs are mostly debarked and quite clean but I brush every log off before sawing. I of course do have the time and patience to do this but it is very rewarding to listen to the blade sing as it goes through the log with almost no pushing effort on my part. Along with a "glug" of Cascade dish wash detergent in the water I use a spray of diesel/bar oil every little while. Keeps the blade clean and slippery. Enjoy your mill it looks like a good product.
                                 Jim
Wether you think you can or you can't you're right

hackberry jake

I tried the same thing when I first started. You will be able to get a few more cuts out of a dull blade but no matter how steady you are, the tooth geometry will change from tooth to tooth. Then when you try to send them out to be professionally sharpened they will either have difficulty or just tell you your band is trash. It is very important to have all the teeth the same height. If the gullet shape is different between all of the teeth, an automatic sharpeners paw will push each tooth a different distance.
https://www.facebook.com/TripleTreeWoodworks

EZ Boardwalk Jr. With 20hp Honda, 25' of track, and homemade setworks. 32x18 sawshed. 24x40 insulated shop. 30hp kubota with fel. 1978 Massey ferguson 230.

Happycamper

hackberry jake,
  The problem with the "PRO" sharpener is and was that he did not want to buy a new stone because they are expensive. Even the local WM has had several comments about the poor sharpening quality from this person. At $13.00 per blade it should pay for a quality stone and then some.
                                    Jim
Wether you think you can or you can't you're right

Bibbyman

I wouldn't rely on sharpening them a couple of times and then sending them to Wood-Mizer Resharp to get them back into profile and proper set. When they get a blade that does not match their profile they will not sharpen it.  Some guys will sharpen once and send off the next but they use WM sharpeners that maintain the factory profile.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
Sawing since '94

Magicman

Anything less than a 100% blade sharpening/setting is not "good enough".  Your blades are about the single most important link in sawing.  It is not to be compromised with less than top quality blade service.  (Whether done by yourself or a professional sharpening service.)
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Deese

Each and every comment is dually noted and genuinely appreciated. It is a true privilege to receive feedback from those who are substantially more experienced in this arena than I.  :)
2004 LT40 Super 51hp w/6' bed extension
Cooks AE4P Edger
Cat Claw sharpener/Dual Tooth Setter
Kubota svl75-2 skidsteer w/grapple, forks, brushcutter
1977 Log Hog Knuckleboom loader/truck

hackberry jake

Quote from: Deese on August 28, 2013, 11:29:49 PM
Each and every comment is dually noted and genuinely appreciated. It is a true privilege to receive feedback from those who are substantially more experienced in this arena than I.  :)
Its a heck of an asset. Three years ago I knew almost nothing about band sawmilling.
https://www.facebook.com/TripleTreeWoodworks

EZ Boardwalk Jr. With 20hp Honda, 25' of track, and homemade setworks. 32x18 sawshed. 24x40 insulated shop. 30hp kubota with fel. 1978 Massey ferguson 230.

Ga Mtn Man

Quote from: hackberry jake on August 29, 2013, 01:23:44 AM
Quote from: Deese on August 28, 2013, 11:29:49 PM
Each and every comment is dually noted and genuinely appreciated. It is a true privilege to receive feedback from those who are substantially more experienced in this arena than I.  :)
Its a heck of an asset. Three years ago I knew almost nothing about band sawmilling.

And now he's a world-famous sawyer! :laugh:
"If the women don't find you handsome they should at least find you handy." - Red Green


2012 LT40HDG29 with "Superized" hydraulics,  2 LogRite cant hooks, home-built log arch.

Happycamper

You fellows are fortunate with a sharpening service. Where I live there is None now. So necessity being the mother of invention I ended up without a choice but to do something other than buying more blades.
                                    Jim
Wether you think you can or you can't you're right

NCDiesel

Quote from: Deese on August 28, 2013, 05:59:34 PM
...snip...
     So why not lay the blade down on a flat surface at a comfortable height and use my Dremel (I know what you're thinking---HERE WE GO AGAIN) tool with an Aluminum Oxide grinding stone to lightly touch things back up? And yes...OH YES...WITHOUT A JIG. I've got steady hands and patience.

...snip...


My comment is directed at the premise of the post:   That sharpening by hand will yield a sharp blade.  One of my supervisors in the Forest Service liked to say men over-estimate two things:  Their ability to sharpen, and - well - you know what the other thing is.  His point was only 20% were above-average sharpeners and they were the only ones that had any business hand sharpening chains beyond the quick field dress you give chains between tanks of fuel.

He had to say this because we were a bunch of cock-sure teenagers that thought we could sharpen chain saws.  And he was right.  most of us, if we are honest with ourselves, didn't sharpen any better than average.  Myself included.  I don't want average blades so I am going to send mine out.

I guess I am saying that even if you end up liking this use of your time (a Zen-like quality to it I suppose) you might still end up with a blade that won't hold the average edge you manage to get on it.  Of course you might be a lot better at it than me  ;D

But to each his own.  If you do it let us know how it turns out.  Good luck!
NCDiesel
Cooks MP-32, 2016 Ram 1500, 6K Kaufman Equip. Trailer, 1995 Bobcat 753 skidsteer 1958 Ford 861 Diesel,
Youth Conservation Corps, Clayton Ranger District, 1977.
I worked sawmills as a teenager and one fall morning I came to work and smelled walnut cutting.  I have loved sawmills ever sinc

Bibbyman

Even with a machine, you have to know what you're doing.   I had a bunch of firewood processor blades I had farmer buddy resharpen on his machine.  They were very sharp but would not cut straight and would bind up.  Figured out the stone he used was to narrow for the harvester chain.  I had the local saw shop sharpen them again with the widest stone they had. The chains cut much better.  I went back to sharpening them with a file.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
Sawing since '94

Deese

I worked for a wildlife biologist throughout my college years and even a few after that. All we did was prescribed fire. We once burned a 1000 acre tract of loblolly in 5 days. For that job, all we used was a cigarette lighter and two hand rakes. For about 5 years, I either had a drip torch in my hand or a chainsaw. He was in his mid 50's and had been doing this since he was 18 years old. He taught me how to sharpen a chain with a hand file. I can keep a chain sharp as long as I stop every now and then to hit it a few strokes with the file...just 2 or 3 strokes per tooth...And the chain will last until the teeth are all but gone. Granted--you may have to remove a link as she stretches over time...

But I understand that a chain and bandsaw blade cannot be compared in this manner for a large number of reasons.

I probably should have found an older thread on this topic and just continued from there...

Maybe this discussion will be helpful to others who are just entering the world of bandsaw mills, as it seems that we all follow the same general learning curve with very similiar questions and concerns along the way.

2004 LT40 Super 51hp w/6' bed extension
Cooks AE4P Edger
Cat Claw sharpener/Dual Tooth Setter
Kubota svl75-2 skidsteer w/grapple, forks, brushcutter
1977 Log Hog Knuckleboom loader/truck

drobertson

I would recommend if someone wants to sharpen their own blades to buy sharpener and setter designed for this.  It's not that hard to learn, and will repay back if enough sawing is done.  david
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

thecfarm

Happycamper,$13 to sharpen a blade??? I pay 6,but this guy had been around sawmills his whole life. He sharpens anything.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

losttheplot

$13 per blade is the price over here as well.

I sharpen a blade 200 times and my cooks sharpener and setter is paid off..
DON'T BELIEVE EVERYTHING YOU THINK !

Quebecnewf

Very interesting post. I have been sharpening my own blades since I got my mill. No choice I live too far out to have a sharpening service. Things I have noticed in 20 years of sawing.

Sometimes you sharpen blades and they go better than new. Your the master.
Sometimes you sharpen blades and they won't cut hot ****. Your an idiot.
You then look for answers .Sometimes it's the sharpener (Dino Band Saw Profiler). If it sharpened one blade good last week why not this week??? Must be the operator.. Maybe it's the stone???? Maybe you have a bad blade???? and so it goes and goes.

I have had enough experence to know that there are times when you have it and there are times when you don't. I never sharpen late in the evening or when I am in a rush to get it done and go home.

I do believe my sharperner is a twitchy beast to say the least .

I can sharpen good enough to get good straight lumber and good speed but never good enough to be completely pleased.

Maybe 20 more years of doing this and I will have it mastered.

I will then get to work on mastering the "art" and it is an art of sawing every log perfectly...

Quebecnewf
you gotta love it

Happycamper

Quebecnewf,
   You have a little more time at sharpening than I do with just 6 months since I got the new mill. I can say that overall I am very pleased with the way my bands cut, nice straight, no rising in the fir knots. I do pay close attention when I sharpen and sharpen when I see any signs of dulling. Also when I saw I move the head through the Fir log slowly. An 8ft. 16 inch cut will take me 2 1/2 minutes from end to end. The cost is mainly a 1/4" round file after many sharpenings. The stone I use lasts a very long time and it is all done by hand no machine.
                                  Jim
Wether you think you can or you can't you're right

hamish

Quote from: Quebecnewf on August 29, 2013, 08:20:24 PM
Very interesting post. I have been sharpening my own blades since I got my mill. No choice I live too far out to have a sharpening service. Things I have noticed in 20 years of sawing.

Sometimes you sharpen blades and they go better than new. Your the master.
Sometimes you sharpen blades and they won't cut hot ****. Your an idiot.
You then look for answers .Sometimes it's the sharpener (Dino Band Saw Profiler). If it sharpened one blade good last week why not this week??? Must be the operator.. Maybe it's the stone???? Maybe you have a bad blade???? and so it goes and goes.

I have had enough experence to know that there are times when you have it and there are times when you don't. I never sharpen late in the evening or when I am in a rush to get it done and go home.

I do believe my sharperner is a twitchy beast to say the least .

I can sharpen good enough to get good straight lumber and good speed but never good enough to be completely pleased.

Maybe 20 more years of doing this and I will have it mastered.

I will then get to work on mastering the "art" and it is an art of sawing every log perfectly...

Quebecnewf
you gotta love it

Can be said any better.

Commercial sharpening services near here run$17 a band (its a Canadian thing).  I bought a second hand Norwood profile sharpener for $400 and made a Pineywoods setter.  Some days the sharpening is good sometimes its not.  My greatest hurdle was realizing when the band had lost its tooth temper.


Norwood ML26, Jonsered 2152, Husqvarna 353, 346,555,372,576

fishpimp

I tried this!!! Epic fail!!!
I built a jig outta osb and 2x4 to hold blades . Got out the Dremel and chainsaw stone. Went at it.
1 hour later 3 blades very sticky . Later that day I stuckem in some syp.results were unacceptable. I was only tryin to finish a small job while waitin for resharp to arrive.
Talk bout frustrated. Wm resharp def knows what they doing! AND I DO NOT! Hahaha
I would like to gain some exp with resharping . Anyone got any blueprints for building a homemade sharpener?

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