Getting started, thinking about timberking 1400, any info appreciated

[jldoss1]

      Hello everyone, I love this site very informative and lots of fun. I'm thinking of buying a mill for part time use to take care of timber on my property. Trees that have died or thinning that needs to be done. Possibly saw a load of ties occasionally or some specialty lumber and lumber for my own building purposes. I don't need a large mill as I wont be sawing full time. Anyone with experience with the 1400 with any advice for me would be much appreciated. I'm from Batesville, Ar. area and I love hearing the wealth of info that can be gained from all that contribute.

[thecfarm]

1400,a manual mill? Nothing a matter with a manual mill. That's why I say,If I don't Do It,It Don't Get done. They are SLOW and ALOT of work. I don't use mine much,just for my own use. Get youself a Logrite cant dog or peavey. You will need it.  ;D

[jldoss1]

    I figured a 1400 manual mill with basic hydraulics would be more work. I was mainly wondering if it sawed good lumber and was pretty dependable and if it would serve the purposes I said I would be needing it for in my first post, but as always thanks for any input or advice any of you experienced sawyers could give a true beginner..... but willing to try and to work hard to succeed at getting into this trade that you guys seem so passionate about.

[customsawyer]

Welcome to the forum. Sawmills are like trucks in that they tend to be as good as the operator. All of them will make good lumber and all of the can make bad lumber. In your first post you mentioned cutting a load of ties from time to time. That is a tough market to compete in with the smaller mills. I would stick to the specialty lumber that you mentioned. If you get a chance go and visit other sawmills in your area or go to a logging/farming show that will have several different mills at it. This way you can see the mills in action. One of the ways to find out about the mills in your area is to contact the different sponsors on the left of the screen and they will let you know of mills close by.

[jldoss1]

    Thanks for the info and opinions of the experts. The main reason I was thinking of buying a mill is the savings toward building with the lumber from my own land and sawing it myself. I think the savings realized would be great and I could realize making a little money on the side as a part time venture as I have a full time job.

[chickenchaser]

...and another "Welcome" to the forum.

Over the last 12 months, I have went from

1) looking for a sawyer to fell and mill some dead/dying pines on our property, to

2) checking out the new basic "hobby" mills because I thought - Hey, for what it would cost to have the job done, I could make a pretty nice payment on MY OWN mill... to

3) looking seriously at used mills, of which I am now an owner.

Stepping from #1 to #2 wasn't such a big deal. I had a good deal of the support items (tractor/loader, chainsaws, etc.) and I could see that over the long haul, I could justify the higher initial expense.

I wallowed and waffled in #2 for quite awhile. (why does that not sound exactly right?)  :
Had I been able to come up with the funding, I probably would have made a sudden decision - something I am all too prone to do. Not that it would have been the WRONG thing...but maybe not the best. Opinions and suggestions here on the FF, as well as "hands-on" demonstrations, proved extremely helpful.

In getting to #3 - actually owning a mill - I can offer some advice that was given to me and has proved to be true early on.

Don't "go cheap" to save money. Quality means a lot. Now and 5-10 years from now when you are selling...or sawing more than you ever imagined.

Don't "go small" for the same reason. Check out the used ads - two top reasons for listing: Upgrading (too small, maybe)...health issues ( I think I hurt myself, maybe).
The advice to me was get as big as I could afford.

Consider used. I bought a 4000+ hours fully hydraulic machine for a little more than what I was wanting to buy new in a manual. Same brand.
I'm 5'7" and if you want a good laugh, hide and watch me struggle with a 24" diameter log that I need to reposition because of my loading/turning expertise. Same log on the less user-friendly mill...
For Sale: Nearly new XYZ band sawmill. Selling due to health reasons.

Resale value seems to hold pretty good, but it makes more sense to BUY a good used piece of equipment for a "used" price than SELL a new piece at a "used" price.  ;)

Nothing WRONG in going new...basic...manual...economic. That may be exactly what you need to do. Just don't be kicking yourself a few months down the road for choosing something different than your gut was telling you. 

The best of success to you.

CC

[Ga Mtn Man]

You learned your lessons well, grasshopper...

[killerman]

First post here since joining the forum.

I found a used 1400 at a good price a few weeks ago and jumped on it. Like a lot of posters here I researched them for years and went back and forth between which brand and model to choose and whether to go new or used. Problem I ran into is there just weren't any used 1400s out there.

Finally found a low hr 1400 on the other end of the state and went for it. The mill was only a yr and a 1/2 old but hadn't been maintained in the best manner and lent out a few times, so I had to fix a couple of small things on it but a couple of hrs of work and it was good as new.

  Haven't sawed anything over 14 inches yet but so far I love the mill. It cuts straight with no issues. The hydraulics are great and so far has plenty of power on the smaller stuff.  Ive got a electric wench on mine but usually just put the log on the mill with the FEL of the tractor but the winch works great and will come in handy on the road, sure beats doing it by rolling it with a hook. Ive got 40 acres of woods and just plan on cutting for the farm and my own woodworking but I'm already finding out as folks figure out you own a mill, work will find you. 

No issues with hauling it and pulls like a dream and I didn't even know it was back there, but it is long, so if you don't do a lot of hauling might take some getting used to.

This will make the professionals cringe but what I really like is the ability to take a small log less than 8inches, that in the past would have just gone for firewood and saw 4 or 5 really nice small boards out of it. I can still use the slabs for the stove but I'm not in a hurry and hate to waste anything.

But bottom line I love the mill and recommend it.

[grweldon]

I bought a 1400 last year.  I will tell you I completely underestimated the amount of work it takes to get the trees from the forest to logs on the mill.  The winch loads most medium-sized logs well, but it's very slow.  If you have a 24" dia. log (about the largest you can clamp despite advertised capacity) at the bottom of the ramps, it could take you 2 minutes or more to get it on the deck.  If you are producing for yourself this isn't an issue.  If you are under time constraints it can quickly become an issue.

I can give you details of my experiences with the construction of the mill.  It's not flimsy.  It's not perfect either.  PM me if interested...

[Magicman]

Hello killerman, and Welcome to the Forestry Forum.     And Congrats on the sawmill.

[Tom the Sawyer]

killerman,

Welcome to the Forum and to the family of other Timberking owners on here.  There is an art to milling an 8" log.  It may not qualify as 'efficient' but you'll have 5 1x6s instead of more firewood and the time spent milling is a reward in itself.

Good luck with your mill,
Tom

[thecfarm]

killerman,welcome to the forum. Nothing a matter with those small logs. Just no money in a common log. If sawing for money,those small ones are just not worth it.I sawed a bunch of small cedar and they was short,3-4 feet log, on top of that too. I had about 20-30 of them. They saw fast and did give me a lot of 1x1 stock. I only saw for myself,so my time is not worth much.  ;D

[dboyt]

Killerman, JLDoss1, welcome to the forum!  If you're in good shape, a manual mill will certainly help you stay that way!  I run a manual mill, and it can pretty much handle anything the hydraulic mills can... with time, muscle, and a little thought.  The fastest way to get a mill to pay for itself is cutting for your own purpose, because you're competing against retail markets.  If you want the mill to pay for itself with custom cutting, portable is definitely the way to go.  Cutting railroad ties is brutal work, and you really do need hydraulics for them, unless moving 300 pound ties is your idea of fun.  Koppers buys them in bundles of 10 (they prefer 20), and you have to get them to one of their yarding areas.  Other than that, not much to add to Customsawyer's comments.  If you want to come to Joplin, MO, I'll let you cut some boards on my mill.

[jldoss1]

    Thanks for all the input guys. The information yall have given me I hope will help me make a good decision on my mill choice. As far as a manual being a lot more work I expected as much but for a mill to use for my own milling purposes for building and such not having to meet any quota or production level and being a construction worker for 25 years. And just starting out I think a manual would be a good starting point and later on I can move up to a bigger mill once I learn the ropes. I' m sure there will be plenty to learn.

[ladylake]

 With over 9000 hours on my B20 can't say enough good about the mill or the company, both have been great.  The only thing I don't like on the 1400 is those swing up log stops, hard to keep the log square as I've heard .   Steve

[beenthere]

How can the swing up log stops make that hard?

[ladylake]

Don't know but I've heard that from a couple of 1400 owners, one is getting a TK 2000 just for that reason.    Steve

[GAB]

jldoss1:
If you are not in too much of a hurry to acquire a mill I would suggest a road trip to the Paul Bunyan show on Oct 4, 5, 6 at the Guernsey county fairgrounds in Cambridge, Ohio.  They are advertising a sawmill shoot-out which should be very educational.  I went to the Paul Bunyan show a few times (then it was at Hocking College) and learned a lot.  I passed on the Timberking because there were features I thought would be very high maintenance items.  Also I was turned off by the attitude of the Timberking personell demonstrating.  Saw some good mills and saw some that would be OK in a work shop to reduce the planer time.  Some mills are built rugged enough to stand by themselves others need to be on a concrete slab to remain level.  I personally have no experience at all with a TK 1400.  The best education I got was working with 2 owners and seeing their operations and how they did things.  That was eye opening.  Both had hydraulic mills.  One had upgraded from a small mill because he could not get square lumber as the frame need to be on a very solid base or foundation.  Hope this helps you.  Gerald

[Handy Andy]

  My neighbor got a great deal on a used 1600.  The thing had sat a while and would not run, but didn't take him long to get it running.  The hydraulic feed is very nice. And nice to be able to saw a 36" log.  My back has been telling me to get an electric feed for my mp32.

[ladylake]

jldoss1:
If you are not in too much of a hurry to acquire a mill I would suggest a road trip to the Paul Bunyan show on Oct 4, 5, 6 at the Guernsey county fairgrounds in Cambridge, Ohio.  They are advertising a sawmill shoot-out which should be very educational.  I went to the Paul Bunyan show a few times (then it was at Hocking College) and learned a lot.  I passed on the Timberking because there were features I thought would be very high maintenance items.  Also I was turned off by the attitude of the Timberking personell demonstrating.  Saw some good mills and saw some that would be OK in a work shop to reduce the planer time.  Some mills are built rugged enough to stand by themselves others need to be on a concrete slab to remain level.  I personally have no experience at all with a TK 1400.  The best education I got was working with 2 owners and seeing their operations and how they did things.  That was eye opening.  Both had hydraulic mills.  One had upgraded from a small mill because he could not get square lumber as the frame need to be on a very solid base or foundation.  Hope this helps you.  Gerald

We really don't need to knock TK or any company on here.  What did you think would be high maintenance on a TK mill, I've found nothing high maintenance in over 9000 hours.  In fact very low maintenance with mostly hydraulic.   Steve

[grweldon]

There are some things I don't like about my 1400, but the log stops aren't one of them.  When you get your blade tracking 90 degrees to them after insuring they are square with the bed, the work perfectly.

[Ga Mtn Man]

I concur with ladylake and grweldon, there are certainly legitimate criticisms that can be a made about TK mills (and all others for that matter) but being "high maintenance" is not on the list.

[GAB]

ladylake & Ga Mtn Man:
I did not mean to upset you fellows.  I merely stated my opinion and also said that I had no hands on experience with a TK.  They do have a feature that on occasion I could have used and that is the wider throat.  The mill I looked at at the PB show had a motor for the head and another motor, I believe, for the hydraulics.  To me two motors is a maintenance headache waiting to happen.  One motor is enough in my books.  Also power to the head was via a drop cord light reel.  My experience with those is that they do not work for long before becoming a royal pain in the neck or lower.  Also I believe that the bed height for a TK is higher than others and at my height it would be tiring sooner.  As I said earlier helping others (especially being the off bearer)with different brands of mills would be very educational to a perspective buyer.  Also one should consider resale when making a decision to purchase.  Gerald

[ladylake]

That second motor to run the hydraulics on my B20 is one of the major reasons I went with TK vs electric over hydraulics, that 6 hp motor work s good with very little trouble. I had maybe 2 or 3 issues with my B20 and that cord reel was one of them, I put a good industrial one on and it's been working good for 5 years now, cost me $100.  Bed height is perfect, any lower and I'd be bending too much. Resale isn't much different and with the way my TK works I could care less. I've heard the comment, you can saw all day without fixing quite a bit. As mentioned no need to put any mill down on here. If you like your mill fine, say what it does good not what think another might do bad.    Steve

[Tom the Sawyer]

GAB,

Successful salespeople are able to promote their products without disparaging the competition.  I would agree that not all salespeople have that skill.

I think you have confused the TK models.  The cord reel was a much maligned feature of the B-20 and the original can be replaced with an industrial model reel or by going wireless.  The smaller engine that runs the hydraulics is also a B-20 feature which saves a considerable amount of fuel when you are loading, turning and clamping logs rather than running a single, large engine.  The bed height of my B-20 works well for me, I am over 6', but since almost all of the mill functions are hydraulic I'm not sure how the bed height would be tiring.  The cord reel and the second engine weren't in the major re-design of the B-20 which is now called the TK 2000.  It is the model with the 32" throat.  The B-20's twenty year model run ended in 2009.

Negative comments about equipment you don't have experience with is likely to raise the hackles on those who use and appreciate those machines.  I suspect most of the mill owners on the Forum don't think that they own the best sawmill ever made - but do feel that they made the best choice at the time based on their skills, circumstances, finances, intended uses and availability.

[Will_Johnson]

Hey All:

Yeah just to be clear we haven't made a dual-engine mill since September of 2009. So not sure that that particular criticism of our product line is entirely fair!



That said, like anything, there were pluses and minuses to the design. One minus, to be sure, was having two engines to maintain.

And indeed the cord reel and other electronics on the B-20 were (and are) the highest maintenance area of that mill. This is why when we redesigned our product line we did everything we could to eliminate electronic features where possible. It's very very rare that we have problems with our hydraulics but when we do they are easy to diagnose and fix. No trying to track down shorts.

Will

[ladylake]

  Will .  I can tell you after 9000 hours that 6 hp hydraulic motor is really reliable  and the only hyd problems have been 2 hoses that wore through and 1   $50 valve.   Also besides that cord reel you put on the B20 it is a fine machine , and the TK2000 improved it.   Steve