Dead Cedar

Deese · August 18, 2013, 12:50:30 PM

While driving this morning, I noticed a large dead Eastern Red Cedar in someone's front yard. Probably 18-20" wide. All of the limbs (large and small) are still attached so I'm hoping it hasn't been dead too long.

Do y'all think its worth my time to seek permission to cut it? How long is too long long for a standing dead cedar before wood quality has declined too much for lumber?

Bibbyman · August 18, 2013, 01:15:13 PM

ERC is pretty hardy tree. I'd be suspicious of why it died. If can examine it up close look for deep seams that may run into a rotten center. Look for aints coming out of the seams. That's a good indicator it has rot inside. A cedar in a yard would have likely been trimmed some time when smaller. Grown over knots will likely be a start of decay. Also, yard trees attract metal.

Deese · August 18, 2013, 01:38:30 PM

Okay- I am definitely going to give it a much closer look if I am granted permission. It is standing among several other living cedars and I would assume it is an eyesore for them...and it's actually in a large field in front of a house. I think I'm going to stop by there on my way back home late this evening and I will keep y'all posted on any additional info I discover. This is way out in the country so maybe I won't get shot at! :-D

sandhills · August 18, 2013, 01:51:11 PM

As Bibbyman stated they are a hardy tree, I don't know what your weather has been like there for the last few years but we had a severe drought last summer and even the cedars are showing it now. This is the first time in my life I've seen it phase them, good luck with getting the tree, cedar is purty

, can't give much advice on milling but it can't hurt to try.

Deese · August 18, 2013, 02:25:01 PM

Quote from: sandhills on August 18, 2013, 01:51:11 PM
As Bibbyman stated they are a hardy tree, I don't know what your weather has been like there for the last few years but we had a severe drought last summer and even the cedars are showing it now. This is the first time in my life I've seen it phase them, good luck with getting the tree, cedar is purty , can't give much advice on milling but it can't hurt to try.

This has been one of the wettest summers on record. We had 25 consecutive days of rain in July. I've never seen anything like it. I've got a couple hundred swamp chestnut seedlings in containers that I started from seed last year, and had to move them out of the rain because they were turning yellow due to excessive moisture. I've got them back in the open now since the frequency of rain has finally subsided a little...

But yes---Alabama has had more than its fair share of rain this year

kelLOGg · August 18, 2013, 09:16:06 PM

Before I cut it, I tested a 24" standing dead red cedar for a hollow center by drilling thru the butt. I found very little void. It was a fantastic find. Maybe you'll get lucky, too.
bob

Deese · August 18, 2013, 09:47:46 PM

I didn't have time to check on it today, but already have a plan...
If they will let me get it, I'm gonna haul my father-in-law's mini track hoe on a goose neck flat bed trailer over there, cut that sucker down, slap the whole thing on the trailer, crawl that back hoe back on the trailer (on top of the tree if I have to) and worry about it when I get back home. Maybe I can contact them tomorrow afternoon.

Magicman · August 18, 2013, 09:56:56 PM

Most times folks will give you the tree if you clean up.

Deese · August 18, 2013, 10:15:06 PM

Quote from: Magicman on August 18, 2013, 09:56:56 PM
Most times folks will give you the tree if you clean up.

Yes sir...I would do that regardless.

I'm going to offer to plant a new cedar in its place...
That will surely win them over

grweldon · August 19, 2013, 09:21:03 AM

I've got ERC seedlings of all sizes on my property. You are welcome to get one...

EZland · August 19, 2013, 01:10:36 PM

I was at a yard sale a while back and there was this dead cedar in the front yard, I ask the own if I could have it and he said no issues as long as I cleaned it up. It had been dead years.

Only took my son and I , 30 minutes to cut it up in 8 section and in my pickup. Man it made a nice nice Live post for my loft in my family room and the upper part I sawed in half to make a ladder up to the loft. I will have to take a photo of it and post. I never turn down cedar.

grweldon · August 19, 2013, 02:23:48 PM

I have a standing dead ERC tree about 200' from my house in the woods. It is on the cut list as soon as I finish milling SYP for my shed!

Deese · August 19, 2013, 03:06:55 PM

Okay, I stopped back by that cedar earlier today. Very disappointed! It appears to have been dead for quite a while.
As you can see in the pics, it will be extremely knotty, and the base of the trunk is in very bad shape. But I wonder if it still has a solid center? The tree is quite a bit larger than I assumed once I saw it up close...

I couldn't get anyone to the door either...If y'all think it may be worth it, I will leave them a note on their door.

mesquite buckeye · August 19, 2013, 03:10:30 PM

Only cedar without a lot of knots either grew up in the woods or got pruned young. I don't see any obvious problems with this log. The knots get smaller the deeper you get into the log. I would ask for it. If nothing else, it is a learning opportunity. ;D

So far as the base goes, cut it low, then trim it if it isn't any good there. You are going to cut away the fat part of the base just squaring up the log anyway. I would be surprised if the heartwood is affected. More likely is some center heart rot, but even there, unless the tree got infected with a heart rotting fungus, that should be fine too. Only one way to find out for sure.

Heart rotting fungi in general produce a conk (spore producing reproductive structure) that can often be spotted on the surface of the trunk. I don't see any in the photos.

Deese · August 19, 2013, 03:29:59 PM

Quote from: grweldon on August 19, 2013, 09:21:03 AM
I've got ERC seedlings of all sizes on my property. You are welcome to get one...

Thanks for the kind gesture grweldon!

My uncle manages a large wildlife tree nursery near Auburn, AL (Wire Rd exit off I-85) and he helps me out every now and then ;D

I'm hoping I can get a bunch of longleaf pine seedlings/plugs from him this winter...

Deese · August 19, 2013, 04:28:29 PM

Quote from: mesquite buckeye on August 19, 2013, 03:10:30 PM
Only cedar without a lot of knots either grew up in the woods or got pruned young. I don't see any obvious problems with this log. The knots get smaller the deeper you get into the log. I would ask for it. If nothing else, it is a learning opportunity. ;D

So far as the base goes, cut it low, then trim it if it isn't any good there. You are going to cut away the fat part of the base just squaring up the log anyway. I would be surprised if the heartwood is affected. More likely is some center heart rot, but even there, unless the tree got infected with a heart rotting fungus, that should be fine too. Only one way to find out for sure.

Heart rotting fungi in general produce a conk (spore producing reproductive structure) that can often be spotted on the surface of the trunk. I don't see any in the photos.

Thanks for taking the time to provide your insight/opinion!
I have decided to attempt to contact the owners. Wish me luck! 8)

fat olde elf · August 19, 2013, 05:21:45 PM

Get the tree before Cedar Man does. I have milled a lot of ERC in the last 10 years and even the worst ones were worth the effort. ERC is my number one species followed closely by white oak. Say your prayers. Lived and traveled in Alabana in the 60's, my 50 YO son Patrick was born in Guntersville. Go Tide....

Magicman · August 19, 2013, 05:38:37 PM

It should be worth the effort as long as your only cost is "cleanup" and maybe providing the landowner some seedlings.

Deese · August 19, 2013, 05:43:46 PM

QuoteGo Tide....

War Eagle ;D

rimshot · August 19, 2013, 10:07:14 PM

I don't know just how similar Eastern White is to Eastern Red Cedar but I have put out nearly 3000 board feet of nice 1" thick lumber in the last couple weeks. This comes from older logs which have been peeled and are very dry.

This lumber has been a pleasure to cut when compared to green logs. I'm not having to constantly clean the blade of sap and bark fuzz. The sawdust of the dry and peeled logs acts as a sand blaster and the blade and pulleys are shiny and clean.

rimshot

WDH · August 19, 2013, 10:18:51 PM

War Eagle ???. Tigers ???. Plainsmen ???. It is all so confusing

.

qbilder · August 19, 2013, 11:04:38 PM

I cut a cedar that size several years ago. It was dead standing so long that it no longer had any branches or twigs, just a 20' stump. It was standing in the old part of a cemetery so I had to be very careful to not drop it on any monuments. The township trustee helped. He was in his 70's & said that tree had been dead standing since he was a young boy playing in the cemetery, at least 60 yrs. according to him. It was covered with vines, but the log was solid completely to the core. The colors were still vibrant & bright, but the wood was dry as popcorn. Aside from the 10,000 square forged nails, it was a pleasure to cut. I got lots of very nice slabs. I built my wife & myself a TV stand/cabinet. My father built a TV stand for his cabin. And my brother in-law built several tables. That old cedar just wouldn't rot. Must have absorbed some embalming fluid

pineywoods · August 19, 2013, 11:11:17 PM

One rule for cedar, the uglier the log, the nicer the lumber. And that is one UUGGLLEE log. If it was hollow, it probably would have blown over by now. Saw it.

Deese · August 19, 2013, 11:30:36 PM

I could tell folks were home because there were more vehicles in the yard than earlier in the day...there was a chain-link fence around the house with barking dogs, so I just put my nice letter seeking permission in a zip-lock bag (it was raining) under a windshield wiper....that's all I can do...maybe they will call me. :-\

Deese · August 19, 2013, 11:35:34 PM

QuoteIt was standing in the old part of a cemetery so I had to be very careful to not drop it on any monuments.

qbilder--you and I both know that some big-ole limbs smashed on some markers...but we will go with your story! 8)

I'm getting the hang of this forum business! :D