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Chainsaw and oak

Started by darrenjttu, August 17, 2013, 09:45:31 PM

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darrenjttu

Does any one else have difficulty cutting oak for firewood? I had some standing dead trees that I have been cutting down and they are very dry. This is the hardest stuff I ever cut through. They were live oaks which I know is very hard but my chainsaw always has big trouble when I cut them.

beenthere

My first question would be how you are sharpening the teeth and filing the rakers.

And the trees are, I assume, not live oak (the species) but alive and with leaves? Or not?

Where are you located?  (not in your bio).

south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

darrenjttu

I always take the chain to get sharpened so I know nothing about the rakers. The trees are as dead as can be. No leaves and bark is off and tops have drooped over to one side. I am in north Texas.

beenthere

Ok, so they are dead live oak trees.  ;)
I'll leave the experts in the south more familiar with cutting those live oaks to give you a hand.
The live oak wood is some tough stuff. A better description of how the chainsawing is "difficult" may help with a suggestion for improvement. Dead is even tougher. ;)
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Ianab

Wood like that is probably the toughest sort of stuff you could be cutting. Chain needs to be RAZOR sharp, AND it dulls the chain much faster than normal green wood.

My suggestion is to get a sharpening kit (file and guide) and learn how to keep the chain sharp in the field. If you are able to give the chain a quick sharpen and keep that edge on it you should have much more success. You might need to do this after every tank of gas in hard wood like that, but because you are doing it before the chain really gets dull, it's only takes a couple of strokes of the file, and removes very little metal from the cutter. If you let the chain get really dull, it both cuts like crap, AND much more material needs to be filed off to get a good edge on it again. But sharpening regularly you get both more wood cut, AND your chain actually lasts longer.

Ian
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

Seaman

+ 2 what Ian said. You will make some mistakes learning how to sharpen a chain, but it is a skill you need.
Lucas dedicated slabber
Woodmizer LT40HD
John Deere 5310 W/ FEL
Semper Fi

bandmiller2

Listen to Ian he speekth the truth.Unless this tree is a one shot deal learn to file your own chain its simple with a little peactice or buy a good chain grinder and do it yourself.Theirs volumes here and on the net about filing chains.Dry oak is hard but a sharp chain will handle it. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

JohnG28

Oak is some seriously hard stuff. I was on a job Fri where we took out 2 tall white Oak, about 24" dbh and pushing 100' tall. My 460 and a 660 were even getting a workout on that stuff. Good sharp chain makes all the difference for sure. And yes, listen to Ian.
Stihl MS361, 460 & 200T, Jonsered 490, Jonsereds 90, Husky 350 & 142, Homelite XL and Super XL

Autocar

My guess the angle [ Degrees ] are wrong if your running a full chiesel chain it should be thirty degrees most others are thirty five degrees. Plus lay a straight edge on top of the chain while its setting in the bar if your rakers arn't showing any light between the straight edge and the top of the racker then they need the tops filed off a little. very little or it will grab trying to be real aggressive. I run Oregon chain it has a line machined at the rear of the tooth thats the angle you want to keep the tooth. Iam running 395XP's with thirty two inch bars and there eat white/bur oak like butter. Goodluck and keep trying your get it  ;).
Bill

mesquite buckeye

Live oak is as hard as mesquite. If you cut it dry with a dull or misfiled chain and just power through it, you will smoke both your chain and bar. If you are seeing smoke when you are cutting, something needs fixing. Usually a sharpening, raker, worn bar issue. As Ian says, #1 issue is a dull chain. You will need to sharpen often to make this work. ;D
Manage 80 acre tree farm in central Missouri and Mesquite timber and about a gozillion saguaros in Arizona.

luvmexfood

I cut a lot of what we call here yellow locust. Very hard but really puts out the heat in the fireplace. If you cut it green it is not too bad. After it has dried it will dull a chain about each tank of gas. And that was Stihl chain. Recently bought some Carlton chain to try. Price was about half of Stihl chain. Cut some big Poplars with it the other day probably about 34". It did good but I got it in the ground on one bucking. Had a time with a file trying but I have one of the red Oregon chain grinders that you hook to your battery. Using diamond stones now and it put it back good as new. Have used the last of the diamond stones.

Bought a Harbor Freight saw sharpner (29 bucks) so thought if it son't work out good I am not out much. I read a post where you have to add some shims to get it to quit raising the chain when you squeeze the handle to secure the chain. Havent done that yet but yes it does raise the chain without it.
Give me a new saw chain and I can find you a rock in a heartbeat.

clww

Ian explained it as it is. Your chains will need to be sharp and they will become dull faster cutting dead and dry hardwoods. I've been cutting oak for more than 30 years. Best firewood we have in our area.
Many Stihl Saws-16"-60"
"Go Ask The Other Master Chief"
18-Wheeler Driver

Al_Smith

I don't have a clue about live oak but we have shagbark hickory in these parts which if dry is about like petrified wood .

You might have to exercise the file every tank full or more often if need be .Size of the saw has little meaning if the chain is not sharp .

darrenjttu

What are the different types of chains used for like chisle or semiround?

LeeB

Standing dead live oak is about like trying to saw railroad iron. If it is oak wilt killed it makes it even worse for some reason. The stuff is just flat out hard. Sharp chain and lots of sharpening as mentioned before. Best firewood and smoking wood I know of. Cut in low light and you will see sparks fly.
'98 LT40HDD/Lombardini, Case 580L, Cat D4C, JD 3032 tractor, JD 5410 tractor, Husky 346, 372 and 562XP's. Stihl MS180 and MS361, 1998 and 2006 3/4 Ton 5.9 Cummins 4x4's, 1989 Dodge D100 w/ 318, and a 1966 Chevy C60 w/ dump bed.

Al_Smith

Interesting the difference .Our white oak standing dead for years will still retain moisture within the heart wood .

Fact being even a red oak which will rot up faster given enough time will still retain  moisture in the solid wood left .

gspren

 If you didn't already, crank up the oil flow to the chain, dry wood likes an oily chain.
Stihl 041, 044 & 261, Kubota 400 RTV, Kubota BX 2670, Ferris Zero turn

Al_Smith

I'll give you a little hint on this for what it's worth .Actually in spite of the fact that chisel chain cuts faster if this dead live oak is all that hard you might do better with semi chisel chain .

It won't cut as fast but it holds its' edge longer .Plus the fact for the less experianced filer it's a little easier to refile .Just spend about 8 bucks for an Oregon style file guide and have at it .You won't learn any younger. ;)

Ward Barnes

In addition to the dead dry oak being hard as iron some parts of Texas have wind driven sand imbedded in the wood.  That plus the dry oak will dull a chain faster than a bull dog eating bacon.  I have read that some wood cutters in areas prone to sand imbedded wood have gone to carbide or carbide coated chains.  I have no experience with carbide chains, however, The mfgs claim that they last much longer than a regular chain and can be sharpened.  Very expensive, but, may be worth it.  God Bless, Ward and Mary.
7 year old Stihl MS 390.  New Stihl trim saw MS 250.  Kubota BX 2200 tractor.  2005 F150 4X4.
Dull chains cause accidents.  Accidents cause shorter life spans.
You don't sharpen a chain when it gets dull.  You sharpen a chain to keep it from getting dull.

beenthere

Versus a well sharpened chain, I think the carbide chains will cut but be very slow, and be a big disappointment. But would be interested hearing if someone else has better results.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

ladylake

 Put on a brand new bar and chain, semi chisel as bandmiller said. Your sharpened ones should cut just as good, if not you have a bad sharpener and need to find a different one or do it yourself .  Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

kenskip1

I would like to know the brand {Texas lingo} of saw, model and type or make of the chain. 325, 3/8? bar length, and is your saw oiler doing it's thing? I am in central Texas and I have no problem working with Oak.Ken
Stihl The One
Stihl Going Strong
Stihl Looking For The Fountain of Middle Age

seanut

I have never cut dry Live oak but if it is as hard or harder than dry madrone then I do understand the difficulty. In this regard, I was reading an article on Rapco carbide tipped chains from Vancouver, WA that may offer a real advantage over regular chains. The article stated from testimony the life of a sharp carbide tipped blade is equal to 30 to 5o regular blade sharpenings. Of course the price is considerably more but many users say it is worth it as the carbide tipped chains cut so much faster because they stay sharp and save so much time as well.
I must attest I do not have any direct experience with the carbide tipped chains.

hitter1

i always get a full chisel chain when i need one new. Been hand sharpening them freehand for more than30 yr. keep your passes even in number so as not to over shorten some more than others. good files 2/3 swipes apiece will do it as long as you didnt "stone" your blade and roll the edge , then it takes more :D thats where the trouble starts as in keeping them even length. you can buy guides and all kind of sharpening gadgets but once you get the hang of it, freehand is the easiest way, espec. on the job. when youre cutting "rock oak"and she aint bitin right well sir take a break and hone er up. also i take my flat file and lay it along the top of the chain to see how much clearance i have on the rakers, you gotta have some, but too much will cause trouble as in chain grabbing and stopping. the more powerful saw will cut bigger chips 8) the weaker will bind up if filed too low :'(. Just as an aside im 3/4 deaf from runnin saws all my life and its a true blessing :D

Al_Smith

As a word you might be better off spending a little more money on chains .Stihl branded is about the hardest chain made .Much harder than Oregon or Carlton .To go along with that use a less aggressive harder file like Save-Edge ,Pferd or Oberg if you can even find the later .Stihl chain will wear  out an Oregon file very quickly .
You can have all the power in the world but if the chain ins't sharp you're spinning your wheels .

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