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Board & Batton how-to question

Started by grweldon, August 16, 2013, 02:50:33 PM

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grweldon

I am shortly going to start putting B&B siding on my house.  The house has been sheathed with 7/16 OSB and covered with housewrap.  The exterior has been like this for 4-5 years and has held up reasonably well.  I am going to use green SYP for the siding.

Here's my question...

Can I put the siding directly on the exterior sheeting (over the housewrap) or must I install horizontal nailers before I install the siding.  If the proper way to do this is to install nailers, do they have to be dried or can they be green?

Looking to hear from those who have some experience and would like to share!

My three favorite documents: The Holy Bible, The Declaration of Independence and The Constitution of the United States.

POSTON WIDEHEAD

I would not recommend nailing green or dried siding into OSB. OSB has no grain to hold a nail or screw.
I've done a good bit of the project you are asking about and I put up nailers...... 1 x 4's.

I have put up green siding right off the sawmill....but it was on a barn, no harm done. I also waited 3 months for it to air dry on the wall before I put the baton on it.

I honestly don't know what to tell you about putting green SYP up against the vapor wrap. I have never done that.

Somebody on here has, I'll betcha  :).....good luck!
The older I get I wish my body could Re-Gen.

beenthere

Being green, I'd certainly want the backs to be able to get some ventilation. Otherwise the back side of the boards will not shrink as fast as the front exposed side, and cupping will be hard to avoid. Maybe by nailing/screwing in the center, and getting a batten to hold the edges down, it might work ok. But ventilation will hold down the molding on the backside too.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

beenthere

QuoteI honestly don't know what to tell you about putting green SYP up against the vapor wrap. I have never done that.

Housewrap isn't vapor barrier. Wind and water barrier, but not water vapor. ;)
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Axe Handle Hound

Definitely put up nailers.  I put board and batten directly over Tyvek on the shed in my backyard and the boards cupped so bad they lifted the battens and nails right out of the underlying sheathing.  Impressive to say the least, but highly annoying as well. 

red oaks lumber

air dry the wood first and you wont have the worries.. if you have had house wrap up for yrs.a few more months might not matter. :)
the experts think i do things wrong
over 18 million b.f. processed and 7341 happy customers i disagree

losttheplot

Hi,
I usually put horizontal strapping (1x3) every 2ft up the wall, nailed to the studs.
Some people also put vertical rain screen  on first.

I have nailed it on one edge and relied on the battens to hold the other edge, as well as nailing it in the center with a single nail.
I have seen a building with the boards nailed both edges, under the battens. The wood on the south side has split a lot.

When I installed it on my shop, I ran it through the planer to get it all the same thickness.
Nailed up with the planed side against the wall. Stained on all 6 sides.
I cut about a 30 degree bevel on the bottom to act as a drip edge.

If there is an air space behind it, it is fine to nail it up green.

I dont know about other brands, Tyvek is rated for 120 days of UV exposure.
The "house wrap" is one of the most important parts of the building envelope.

LTP.







DON'T BELIEVE EVERYTHING YOU THINK !

ST Ranch

LTP
Very nice looking B&B siding - Is it Douglas fir or ?
Also what is vertical rain screen?  From your pic it looks like you are using black building paper [around the windows]. Also curious about your choice of stain - do you use sealer or just a penetrating stain. 
Reason for questions is I am about to build a number of farm building out of Spruce, Doug-fir and western larch and I am going to use B&B to match existing barn. I recognize you are in a wetter and warmer  climate, but any advise is appreciated.
Thanks  Tom
LT40G28 with mods,  Komatsu D37E crawler,
873 Bobcat with CWS log grapple,

Banjo picker

gr if I were doing it I would put Vertical nailers on first, then horizontal's on the verticals....Then put the B&B on the horizontals....That way you have proper air flow....Banjo
Never explain, your friends don't need it, and your enemies won't believe you any way.

losttheplot

Around here 1½ wide strips of pressure treated 3/8ths plywood are used as the vertical air space (rain screen). Usually nailed through the sheeting into the studs. Your horizontal nailers would go over the top.  It has been in the BC building code for a number of years now. You could also rip 2x's into 3/8ths strips on the mill.
Just as Banjo says, it provides an air space top to bottom to allow any moisture to dry out.

I prefer 30 min tar paper over plastic membranes, two layers staggered. But that is just what I have always used.

My siding is Douglas-fir, I took extra effort to make it look nice because it is an advertisement for my work. Also because I have to look at it every day  ;)

I finished between the windows with spilt cedar shakes.






The stain is Olympic from Home hardware. Its a water based oil stain, what ever that is.
I have used sickens cetol 1 when it was oil based and it was very good, now they are all environmentally friendly so I use the cheapest.

For Doug-fir or larch I think it would last plenty long enough without any stain, The stain costs more than the wood :(

If your barn is just siding on the studs, I would not bother putting any thing between the siding and studs. Tar paper or plastic, the wood will breath to the inside and any moisture will dry out on its own.

Just my own thoughts your millage may vary  ;)

DON'T BELIEVE EVERYTHING YOU THINK !

shinnlinger

I nailed EWP up green directly to zip wall.  My logic was a rough sawn 1x10 is going to breathe some as it wont be perfectly flat.

Can't say it was the best thing to do, but no known issues so far and it made everything pretty easy.

Shinnlinger
Woodshop teacher, pasture raised chicken farmer
34 horse kubota L-2850, Turner Band Mill, '84 F-600,
living in self-built/milled timberframe home

grweldon

OK guy, nailers it is.  I'm wondering about the necessity of vertical AND horizontal nailers.  The climate for you guys up north is much more harsh than the climate here in the southeastern states, plus it is a bunch more work.

I WILL be putting another layer of Tyvek housewrap on the walls before the nailers because it HAS been up for years and some of it is quite detriorated.  Is there a consensus that horizontal 1x3s will be sufficient?  I have some SYP 1x stock that's been air drying for about a year that I could rip into strips or will I need to buy KD pine for the nailers?
My three favorite documents: The Holy Bible, The Declaration of Independence and The Constitution of the United States.

Axe Handle Hound

Having done it the wrong way once and now looking at doing it over I will be using both horizontal and vertical nailers next time.  Having good air flow behind the boards is critical to keep them from cupping and I'm not sure if you're planning on painting it, but if you are you'll find your paint will last much longer if you have good air flow behind the boards. 

beenthere

Compromise, and put the nailers at an angle, and let the air flow at that angle. ;)
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

LeeB

Interesting idea BT. Might be a little difficult for nailing though.
'98 LT40HDD/Lombardini, Case 580L, Cat D4C, JD 3032 tractor, JD 5410 tractor, Husky 346, 372 and 562XP's. Stihl MS180 and MS361, 1998 and 2006 3/4 Ton 5.9 Cummins 4x4's, 1989 Dodge D100 w/ 318, and a 1966 Chevy C60 w/ dump bed.

beenthere

I wouldn't nail B&B, as they work loose and pop out.
Only screws... ;)
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

grweldon

I've been told that green wood will snap screws BT.  I've read that if you nail the boards at the edge, you need to angle them in toward the center when you pound so when they shrink, they will pull straight, not out.  I believe I'm going to be nailing in the center and allowing the battens to cover up any shrinkage.  I'm experimenting right now with the B&B that I'm installing on the 12 x 12 shed I'm building...
My three favorite documents: The Holy Bible, The Declaration of Independence and The Constitution of the United States.

beenthere

Don't nail or screw at the edge. The proper place on the board is at or near the center of the width. The battens hold the edges as you suggest.
Use nails if you like, but I don't like as they pull out whereas screws do not. And the screws in my board and battens don't break (maybe someone is using a Chinese screw ??)

Also, screws can come coated and not stain the siding. Nails come coated too but usually the coating breaks off when the nail is pounded into the board. Get a black streak of stain running down the B&B
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

shinnlinger

In addition to not using nailers, I nailed the board near one edge with a 2 inch galvy ring shank right into the zip wall and and the batton in the center with a 3" galvy ring shank.  This allows expansion and contraction and it seemed to work well.
Shinnlinger
Woodshop teacher, pasture raised chicken farmer
34 horse kubota L-2850, Turner Band Mill, '84 F-600,
living in self-built/milled timberframe home

WDH

GR,

Your air dried pine will be fine for nailer strips. 
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

ST Ranch

LTP
Thanks for your ideas, I to like to use "tar" paper vs plastic. Yor shakes around the windows look great. I might try sawing some larch shingles on the lap sider to use on a garden shed [next to the house and needs to look "good", along with B&B - they look good together.
Tom
LT40G28 with mods,  Komatsu D37E crawler,
873 Bobcat with CWS log grapple,

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