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Keeping un-milled logs.

Started by Rod Yowell, August 12, 2013, 09:38:28 AM

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Rod Yowell

Good morning fellows.  I have been reading a lot of the posts over the last couple of weeks and have a few questions about keeping un-milled logs.
    I have read on this site that mills keep the logs that they can't mill quickly enough wet. Do they 'hose them down regularly?
I have also read here of sawyers talking about sawing up logs that they have stored or 'kept' for more than 5-6 years or more. Did these fellows keep hosing down with water for all these years?
   Also, when you gentlemen refer to the 'heart' of a tree, are you talking about the center of the log? When milling a logs, do you always need to square the logs before you mill boards, or do can the logs be milled after they are rolled to rest on the first flat side.
    Sorry for all the questions but this thirst for logging and milling knowledge is like a drug. I want to learn as quickly as possible. I am about a day or so away from ordering my first sawmill.
If your word and handshake isn't any good, we have nothing else to talk about.

Have a Woodland Mill 126, 1954 Allis Chalmers WD45 tractor for log moving.

Rod Yowell

They reason I am wanting to know about long term log storage is that I currently have about 200-25 logs down in my lake site that if I don't sell to a mill I am going to need lots of time to get them milled. I am wondering if I need to plan on having to keep wetting them down until I mill them and get the lumber in a kiln. Thanks
If your word and handshake isn't any good, we have nothing else to talk about.

Have a Woodland Mill 126, 1954 Allis Chalmers WD45 tractor for log moving.

dGarnier

all the mills up by me have spriklers spraying down there log piles
love being in the woods with a gun or a chainsaw

scsmith42

Rod, does your lake have water in it yet?  If so consider storing your logs in the lake.
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Rod Yowell

No water yet. I just finished the clearing a couple of weeks ago. I have yet to build the dam. I have the logs in several piles in the 'bottom' of the future lake.
If your word and handshake isn't any good, we have nothing else to talk about.

Have a Woodland Mill 126, 1954 Allis Chalmers WD45 tractor for log moving.

thecfarm

I always square my logs,than saw what I need. Or think I need. But I'm like you,just learning too.
If you was going to keep the logs so called wet,I wonder how much water you would need to keep them wet? Would you have to run water on them 3 hours a day,8 hours? Wonder how much it would cost in electricity to do that? Would you need more than a lawn sprinkler? Also too would that muddy the ground up on the downhill side? At work they was expanding and needed more coolant. While waiting on a bigger and better one,we ran a lawn sprinkler on the big radators. That water ran over on the next door companies lawn and they almost got stuck mowing. We has to put in a "gutter system" to catch the run off water.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

beenthere

The logs will begin to deteriorate as soon as cut, but not all of a sudden. Just steady over time.

Logs in water or under a sprinkler will deteriorate much slower.

No set time can be given as to when/how fast this will happen. In your favor is cooler weather coming which slows down the process.

I'd consider getting the logs to a mill, or a sawmill in, to get the lumber from the logs and that lumber on stickers for air drying. That would take much of the worry out of "how long" and under what conditions the logs will stay sound and worth sawing at a later unknown date.

If you would have a dam and water in a lake by spring, then I'd suggest leaving them where they are and be in your pond. But maybe that isn't in the immediate future.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Rod Yowell

beenthere thanks for your reply. Based on what your saying, if someone has a log that they have stored for several years, they probably had it in a lake or a tank of some kind to keep it wet. I will have to get on my logs to get the most from them. Thanks
If your word and handshake isn't any good, we have nothing else to talk about.

Have a Woodland Mill 126, 1954 Allis Chalmers WD45 tractor for log moving.

hackberry jake

Rot resistant species such as cedar, locust, white oak, etc can be stored in log form for years without sprinklers. You will have some end checking maybe some blue stain and the logs will be harder to mill, but it can be done. Keep them up off the ground and you should get at least a year without too much degrade out of pretty much any species.
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drobertson

Rod, sounds like you are wanting to keep the logs, if so, buck them a foot or so longer than the intended use. Keep them off the ground, as mentioned. If you leave them in a pond, not a bad idea, you just need a way to retrieve them.  The best ball park figure I can give is an inch a year loss in degradation.  I would be inclined to store the better clear butt cuts off the ground, and sell the remainder as asap. If they buy by weight, this will be better, If scaled, trim cut the dried ends for a better appearance.   david
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

grweldon

I'm asking out of ignorance of course, but would the logs degrade as rapidly if they were kept off the ground AND had a roof over them?
My three favorite documents: The Holy Bible, The Declaration of Independence and The Constitution of the United States.

Chuck White

I think that the logs would keep for an extended period of "like a few years" if they were peeled and up off the ground with a roof over them.
~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

drobertson

From what I've seen the bark is the culprit for degrade, insects and moisture I'm thinking, not a scientist for sure. off the ground is critical for minimizing rot.  But the bark is still a killer, bugs, and moisture, In a shed would reduce the moisture, which would reduce the bugs, I'm thinking, not all of them, but many. Had some small poles in the ole barn for nearly 50 years when I moved here, bark still on them and hard as a rock. A shed might be a great Idea.   david
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

hackberry jake

Before I would go through the effort of building a shed for the logs, I would hire a portable sawmill to come and mill up the logs. Then you will have plenty of lumber for a shed  8)
https://www.facebook.com/TripleTreeWoodworks

EZ Boardwalk Jr. With 20hp Honda, 25' of track, and homemade setworks. 32x18 sawshed. 24x40 insulated shop. 30hp kubota with fel. 1978 Massey ferguson 230.

WDH

Rod,

If you use water to preserve the logs, you have to keep them constantly wet.  If they are under sprinklers, the sprinklers have to run all the time.  If in a pond, they are put in the water where many will get waterlogged and submerge.  I agree with the others.  Get them off the ground and take your chances, or sell them now and cut some more later when you need the wood.  Off the ground, you are probably good for most species for a couple of years except for pine.  Pine degrades faster than most hardwoods.  So, off the ground and you will still get some degrade in the sapwood, but there will still be plenty of good wood to saw.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Migal

As for me during the drought season here I notice very little problem with logs kept off the ground Other than pine as mentioned now the plan is as always stacked and sticker'd before humid damp winter months get here Fine line sometimes Here in East Texas. But a man don't need to get heat stroke over a few log's when there are so many fine living tree's that could be sawn fresh.The logs I get in the dog days of summer are just kept off the ground and the pine i debark with a machete as soon as the bark starts to slip not that I store a lot of logs in july/aug but I will pick up any that look good to me for no fee from my small area.
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bandmiller2

Bark and the insects it harbors is the agent of distruction.Keep some logs sell the rest.Store the logs well off the ground,after several months the bark will start to loosen,peel it off.You should have a couple of years without a lot of damage.Keep  some logs around so you will buy a mill. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

WDH

Have you decided on which mill that you are going to buy?  Sounds like you are close to pulling the trigger  8).
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

francismilker

I cut a walnut for a guy that he had weighted and sunk in his pond over ten years ago.  It was some beautiful wood and pretty effortless to cut.  After that experience, I've sunk several logs of my own of various species to try it out for future projects. 
"whatsoever thy hands finds to do; do it with thy might" Ecc. 9:10

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dboyt

Quote from: Rod Yowell on August 12, 2013, 09:38:28 AM
   Also, when you gentlemen refer to the 'heart' of a tree, are you talking about the center of the log? When milling a logs, do you always need to square the logs before you mill boards, or do can the logs be milled after they are rolled to rest on the first flat side.
"Heart" usually refers to the center of the growth rings, which isn't always the center of the tree.  "Heartwood" is the darker wood, usually more rot resistant than the outer sapwood.  I've milled oak logs that have been on the ground for 2 years, and walnut that had been down for ten years.  In both cases, all the sapwood was rotted, but the heartwood was still in great shape. Hickory, on the other hand, won't last a year.  I second (or third) the idea of having someone with a portable sawmill come out and get you started.

Quote from: Rod Yowell on August 12, 2013, 09:38:28 AMSorry for all the questions but this thirst for logging and milling knowledge is like a drug. I want to learn as quickly as possible. I am about a day or so away from ordering my first sawmill.

Sounds like you're on track to become one of us.  Reading and asking questions help a lot, but having someone tell you to remember to lower your clamps below the cutting line just isn't the same as actually forgetting to do it!  There are a lot of different ways of doing things, and some will work better than others, depending on you & your equipment.  Have you settled on a sawmill to buy?  I'm about 5 hours west of you (near Joplin), but you're welcome to come over and play with my Norwood mill.
Norwood MX34 Pro portable sawmill, 8N Ford, Lewis Winch

Bogue Chitto

 

  I live in south Louisiana and a log will rot quickly down here.  If I have to store logs more than a year they go in the pond.  I still have logs in the pond from 7 years ago that are still good.  The lumber smells sour when it is cut, but after it dries it is ok.

Rod Yowell

Thanks guys for all the replies. I am thinking about giving a Woodland Mills a call about a sawmill. does anyone have an opinion about this brand of mill? DBOYT, I may take you up on that offer. I have been wanting to try one out.
If your word and handshake isn't any good, we have nothing else to talk about.

Have a Woodland Mill 126, 1954 Allis Chalmers WD45 tractor for log moving.

bandmiller2

My old friend Spike grew up in Maine back in the thirties and worked for an old fella that ran a sawmill.In the bottom of their pond was a huge oak log that the owners grandfather dumped there over 100 years ago.The owner was saving it for something special and said it would be good as new if not better. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

muskoka guy

We cleared some white pine in the spring to clear an area to set up the mill. Some of the smaller ones we kept for bunks to pile logs on. You can hear the pine bugs chewing in them already. The bark is the culprit with pine. I remember working on my grampas mill as a kid. They pulled logs out of the mill pond that had been there for many years and were fine. In fact here in Muskoka, there are a few small companies salvaging logs that have been under water since the late 1800s.

Rod Yowell

Well guys a woodland Mill is it. Joe and I are ordering one this Friday with an extension to accommodate a twenty foot log. I have given up on trying to sell any logs from the lake clearing. We are just going to mill them all and stack the lumber. in the spring we will build a kiln or two. I can't wait for the mill to get here. 
If your word and handshake isn't any good, we have nothing else to talk about.

Have a Woodland Mill 126, 1954 Allis Chalmers WD45 tractor for log moving.

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