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Log Stop Maintenance

Started by chickenchaser, August 05, 2013, 12:29:54 PM

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chickenchaser

I "traded" for a TK B20 back in November. 4400 hours...well used but also shed - kept for latter part of its operational life. I'm the third owner (all local) and I was able to get OJT from previous owner while he was waiting on his new mill and getting everything set up. During this time, one thing he explained was the need to leave a small gap at the top of the log in relation to the stops after the opening face was sawn. This was because of the wear on the mill. It was no problem for him, but being less experienced, I spend a fair amount of time with a square checking the log/cant. Also, I find the need to snug the log to the stops at times - knowing I will have to come back and trim for square.

Any recommendations from you "been there...done that" guys?

Can't say for sure where the wear is. Just haven't laid eyes on the problem as I've been sawing as-is.

Thanks!

CC
WoodMizer LT35HD

JD 3720 w/loader. 1983 Chevrolet C30 dump. 1973 Ford F600 w/stickloader. 35,000 chickens.

beenthere

If the blade is parallel to the bed, then no need to clamp high or real tight. Just clamp low and tight enough to keep the log from sliding around on the bed.

But as you like to use the square, then use it to true up the log stops so they are square. Just that clamping high when the flat is down leads to pushing the log stops out of square.

"Snug to stops" may just cause problems with getting a square cant.

My 2 cents.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Chuck White

Agreed, just square up the log stops.

A lot of people go overboard when they clamp a log or cant, which can throw the log stops out of adjustment!

After a while you'll get a feel for just how tight you need to clamp!
~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

chickenchaser

Thanks for the reply, BeenThere.

When you said clamp low and just tight enough, it made me realize something. A lot of what I'm sawing is oak blown down 2+ years from storms. Bark and sapwood gone or very soft. You are spot on about pushing out of square. I've used blocks to wedge at times. I'll try some variations there for stabilizing.

As a general rule, after opening a log I turn 90 degrees, saw and turn 90, etc. Occasionally, I'll open and turn 180 degrees for my second cut - usually based on something I'm seeing in the log. Anything I need to know (correct) here?

CC

WoodMizer LT35HD

JD 3720 w/loader. 1983 Chevrolet C30 dump. 1973 Ford F600 w/stickloader. 35,000 chickens.

chickenchaser

Quote from: Chuck White on August 05, 2013, 01:29:29 PM

A lot of people go overboard when they clamp a log or cant, which can throw the log stops out of adjustment!


I think I can raise my hand here.  :embarassed:

WoodMizer LT35HD

JD 3720 w/loader. 1983 Chevrolet C30 dump. 1973 Ford F600 w/stickloader. 35,000 chickens.

grweldon

I'm following this thread with interest.  I've always had a problem getting square cant.  I think I figured out my problem on Saturday.  I checked my log stops, the long arms that keep the log from rolling off and keep the flat face of the long vertical after opening.  They were dead-on square.

Then I thought out why I was having problems.  When aligning my blade guides, I do it with no down-force applied.  When I get the blade level to the bunks side-to-side and end-to-end, then I apply the downforce.  I do this by counting the number of turns on the screw (1/4-20 thread... .050 per turn).  Of course this is approximate.

After cutting a cant out of square Saturday with a brand new blade, I decided to adjust the downforce on the guide roller where the out-of-square condition occured, which happened to be on the tension wheel side.  After doing this, I was able to saw an almost perfectly 12" square cant, off only by about the thickness of a blade on one side.

Maybe this can be your problem, however my mill is 1 year old and only has about 40 hours on it.
My three favorite documents: The Holy Bible, The Declaration of Independence and The Constitution of the United States.

Delawhere Jack

Several member have mentioned that when they adjust their stops, they angle the top in about 1/16" beyond square to allow for flex when clamping pressure is applied.

drobertson

I have found that the two techniques used in sawing when squaring can be useful, but both will require a large enough face to allow enough contact with the stops, and enough to give a good visual as to see if there might be a gap on either the top side of the face or bottom side,  but as mentioned, a square back stop is kinda necessary from the get go,  I usually saw in 90 degree turns, and try to get the first face 6" or more to ensure a good contact with the back stops, once these  two first faces are squared it should go good from there,  knots and swells can cause havoc at times. I will go so far as to make trim cuts when I notice I have one out, it does happen time to time, rather than getting a thick to thin board, I will waste the saw time and a lil material than have a funky board that messes up the stack and usefulness,  lots of opinions on this, quality always before quantity for me.  david
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

Tom the Sawyer

chickenchaser,

Welcome from another B-20 owner, mine is a 2007.  Work is so much easier when you are using accurate tools - your stops should be square with the bed of your mill.   smiley_thumbsup
They are not difficult to adjust and if you handle large logs you'll find that you can knock them out of square both in the loading process and while turning those monsters.  Checking for squareness, and for consistent height, should be a regular part of your maintenance schedule.  smiley_dark_bulb

If you don't have a manual for your B-20 you can call TK and get one.  They'll send you one for free and they are really great at helping you with problems, diagnosis and adjustments - even if you are the third owner of a TK mill.

The various systems on the mills have evolved over the years so the year your mill was manufacturerd will have a lot to do with the exact procedures but they will walk you through it.  Excessive clamping pressure can also push the cant out of square.  smiley_thumbsdown I have seen my clamp head raise the cant slightly if I put too much pressure into clamping.  Making sure the clamp slider pads are adjusted properly and only using sufficient pressure can avoid that problem.

Good luck with your B-20, there are quite a few of us on here.   smiley_thumbsup
07 TK B-20, Custom log arch, 20' trailer w/log loading arch, F350 flatbed dually dump.  Piggy-back forklift.  LS tractor w/FEL, Bobcat S250 w/grapple, Stihl 025C 16", Husky 372XP 24/30" bars, Grizzly 20" planer, Nyle L200M DH kiln.
If you call and my wife says, "He's sawin logs", I ain't snoring.

thecfarm

chickenchaser,welcome to the forum. what's the plan for the sawmill and the lumber? I have an all manual mill,just for my own use.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

tyb525

Unfortunately the LT10 doesn't have adjustable log stops, but I agree with the clamp low, and only as much as you need idea. I was tipping the outer side of the cant off the bunks by clamping too high against the stops before I figured it out. With bigger cants that aren't wanting to move much, you can sometimes cut without the clamp at all.
LT10G10, Stihl 038 Magnum, many woodworking tools. Currently a farm service applicator, trying to find time to saw!

Brucer

Whatever brand of mill you have, when you adjust the log stops be sure to keep some outward pressure on them as you do the adjustment. You want to be sure there is no slack in the mechanism when you're setting them up -- a log will take out any slack when you clamp it.
Bruce    LT40HDG28 bandsaw
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand wrong answers."

dboyt

Sometimes the log just doesn't want to sit square on the second cut, especially if it is a big one.  Rather than fight it, I turn it 180o so that the bump or swell butt gets cut off on the third slab.  I've found it quicker to use a carpenter's level and plumb the flat side than it is to use a square (assuming the mill is also level).  Occasionally, a wedge is in order, but that's pretty much a last resort.


 
Norwood MX34 Pro portable sawmill, 8N Ford, Lewis Winch

hackberry jake

My backstops aren't adjustable and when I built my hydraulic turner I bent them while trying it out (there is a lot of force in hydraulics). When I say they aren't adjustable, I mean they take a high precision, immediate force inducing device to adjust them... also known as a sledge hammer.  8)
https://www.facebook.com/TripleTreeWoodworks

EZ Boardwalk Jr. With 20hp Honda, 25' of track, and homemade setworks. 32x18 sawshed. 24x40 insulated shop. 30hp kubota with fel. 1978 Massey ferguson 230.

Magicman

Welcome to the Forestry Forum, chickenchaser.   :)
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

chickenchaser

Many thanks to everyone for the replies...tips...suggestions...recommendations. Also for the welcomes to the forum.

Tom - I plan to call TimberKing tomorrow for a manual and to learn the age of my mill.

CC
WoodMizer LT35HD

JD 3720 w/loader. 1983 Chevrolet C30 dump. 1973 Ford F600 w/stickloader. 35,000 chickens.

MSSawmill

Quote from: hackberry jake on August 06, 2013, 01:45:52 PM
My backstops aren't adjustable and when I built my hydraulic turner I bent them while trying it out (there is a lot of force in hydraulics). When I say they aren't adjustable, I mean they take a high precision, immediate force inducing device to adjust them... also known as a sledge hammer.  8)
;D ;D ;D
Home-built bandsaw mill
2004 Kubota M110 with LA1301 loader

chickenchaser

Quote from: Tom the Sawyer on August 05, 2013, 04:28:32 PM

If you don't have a manual for your B-20 you can call TK and get one.  They'll send you one for free and they are really great at helping you with problems, diagnosis and adjustments - even if you are the third owner of a TK mill.



Tom,

Thanks again for the heads-up to contact TK.

I e-mailed for a manual and registered as the new owner of the mill. Very soon I received an e-mail telling me the mill was a 2003 and also a PDF link for a downloadable manual. They would be mailing me a hard copy, too. Expecting a large envelope, I was a bit surprised to receive a box and thinking it was just overkill, opened it to find a manual...a training DVD for setup/operation/maintenance...a business booklet...and a "Sunday-Go-To-Meeting" cap!  ;)

Oh...and I gave the Forum a big plug with TK for steering me that way.

CC
WoodMizer LT35HD

JD 3720 w/loader. 1983 Chevrolet C30 dump. 1973 Ford F600 w/stickloader. 35,000 chickens.

Tom the Sawyer

chickenchaser,

The guys at TK are all very helpful; Matt, Jimmy, Mike, Jason and Will - if they don't have an answer they'll transfer you to someone who should.  I am very fortunate in that I live just under 40 miles away from their home office so it is easy to get parts, although you may have to walk past those brand new mills being prepared for delivery.   ;D ;D

Wait a minute.... did you say you got a cap??  I never got a cap...  smiley_crying smiley_crying

I did get a banner though.  smiley_thumbsup


 
07 TK B-20, Custom log arch, 20' trailer w/log loading arch, F350 flatbed dually dump.  Piggy-back forklift.  LS tractor w/FEL, Bobcat S250 w/grapple, Stihl 025C 16", Husky 372XP 24/30" bars, Grizzly 20" planer, Nyle L200M DH kiln.
If you call and my wife says, "He's sawin logs", I ain't snoring.

chickenchaser

Quote from: thecfarm on August 05, 2013, 10:28:03 PM
chickenchaser,welcome to the forum. what's the plan for the sawmill and the lumber? I have an all manual mill,just for my own use.

CFarm,

I apologize - I missed your post...or the question about plans for the mill and lumber.

I've been a poulty farmer since 1993. In 2011, one house was "taken out of operation". After sitting empty for a year, I decided I had to do something with it to help make ends meet. 40X340 clear span had "sawmill" written all over it.

After sitting empty 22 months...and about 5 weeks before I would be able to bring the B20 to its new home - circumstances changed - and the prospective sawmill shed was put back into the poultry business. This, in terms of my livelihood, was a life saver. In terms of me now owning a band mill...and being hopelessly addicted to making sawdust,  I have had to re-think my plans.

Instead of stationary...with a super drying shed...tractor and other support equipment all within a few dozen steps - now I'm portable, limited to whatever equipment the customer has access to ( and it ain't been much to date ) as well as limited on time to saw. The chickens are priority and, until today, I had not sawed in three weeks. UGH!

I guess, in answer to your question about plans for the lumber: SAWMILL SHED...LUMBER SHED...equipment shed...

Thanks for the welcome.  :)

CC
WoodMizer LT35HD

JD 3720 w/loader. 1983 Chevrolet C30 dump. 1973 Ford F600 w/stickloader. 35,000 chickens.

chickenchaser

I was finally able to go and adjust the log stops today. Very easy, only took about 10 minutes to get things square with the bunks.

After doing so, I cranked the hydraulics and tried them out. The stops were fully raised for adjusting - and about halfway down, they were in a bind. This was not totally unexpected due to the fact that I had to use all but maybe three rounds on the adjustment bolts. The stops were bottoming out on the inside of the frame (channel). I re-adjusted just for clearance and ground a tad off one gusset?? so it would not hang.

Turns out, this was a quick and temporary fix. I had to be very careful and aware that the stops didn't hang in either direction, as well as the fact the stops were back off their 90 degree corrected adjustment.

I did saw one 14" red oak log. Squared that sucker up without having to do anything over!  8) 8)

The permanent solution will be new stops and guides (brackets?) or machine shop rebuilding both. ASAP

Thanks, guys.

CC
WoodMizer LT35HD

JD 3720 w/loader. 1983 Chevrolet C30 dump. 1973 Ford F600 w/stickloader. 35,000 chickens.

bandmiller2

Most log stops are bent out of wind by logs rolling agenst them loading.Logs are heavy and repeted pounding will set them back.I used to straighten mine but now I leave them bent back a small amount as it allows me to raise and lower them easily.I know how much gap I should see at the top which is close enough for boards.Timbers and dimension stuff I use a level to fine tune to square.Handle logs gently when you load and turn, repeted pounding is good for no mill. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

chickenchaser

Called TimberKing and got a few more adjustment tips...and the ok to weld (build up and grind back down) as I assumed.

Not really much in the way of bent - more sloppy free because of wear.

Thanks bandmiller.

CC
WoodMizer LT35HD

JD 3720 w/loader. 1983 Chevrolet C30 dump. 1973 Ford F600 w/stickloader. 35,000 chickens.

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