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What is the "proper" way to fell a tree?

Started by bill5335, August 01, 2013, 10:50:07 PM

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KyLogger

It's been a while since I have been on here and several thousand bdft. I log in the mountains of E. Ky, and stump jumping is a very common method of cutting high grade hardwood. When properly used it prevents barber chairing, fiber pulling and maximizes total bdft in the log. That being said it has its place. Most of the time my initial cut into a tree is the horizontal cut of my face and I will cut as much as three quarters of the way through the tree, working saw in and out to prevent a hang up. Throw my face in, start my backcut and use the intentional dutchman to my advantage to direct the fall, letting it down on the kerf and guiding the tree from there. Cutting that far through saves from barberchairng by removing the heart and is alot quicker than bore cutting (which I use when needed) from a production standpoint. Nearly all my stumps have show signs of intentional dutchmen and quite a few with no holding wood "stump jumping".

There are a blue million ways to cut a tree, timber species, terrain, locality all have an impact of the type of cutting methods used, and now two trees are alike!

Tom
I only work old iron because I secretly have a love affair with my service truck!

beenthere

Ky
That method is one I wouldn't recommend, and especially to someone just learning. 
From what you describe, you do not have a hinge to control the tree, and it is in most respects "out of your control". All due respects that it apparently is the way that works ok for you. ;)
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

KyLogger

I agree with you in the respect that it is not the way for a beginner to learn. I realize the method I use is "taboo" but you have to take the type of timber into consideration. A conventionally cut white oak or chestnut oak with any lean at all will barber chair in a heart beat, I understand that bore cutting and leaving hinge wood will eliminate this, but generally that technique is used if the tree can fall toward it's natural lean. Occasionally I will have a tree fall out of the lead, but who doesn't. I usually cut on select cut jobs and take pride in saving the leave trees, I do practice directional felling, and change up technique when required. 
I only work old iron because I secretly have a love affair with my service truck!

WmFritz

Quote from: beenthere on August 04, 2013, 06:20:15 PM
It was a great video. I hope you repost it.  Shows how several trees can be dropped... bang, bang.............etc. And has a hat cam (apparently) to record while cutting.


I got here late, so I'm really in the dark with the stump jumping technique. Not that I would attempt it (I can barely handle a saw well enough to buck firewood logs), by pulling the clip, I feel like I've missed half of the discussion. 
~Bill

2012 Homebuilt Bandmill
1959 Detroit built Ferguson TO35

Nemologger

The proper way is the way it gets on the ground in one piece and your still alive. Every tree may be different, thus require different cutting methods. Also fence or power lines may play a roll in what method is used.
Clean and Sober

John Mc

I second (or third?) the request to repost the stump jumping video.  I've never seen it.  It's not something I'm likely to do myself.  I'm mainly just cutting firewood for personal use and for friends, with the occasional sawlog for a special project, so I've generally got plenty of time to get done what I need to do.  I'd still be interested to see what it looks like.

If you're worried some of us less experienced folk might get the wrong idea and try it on our own, you could always post it woth a disclaimer ("now kids... don't try this at home")

John Mc
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

beenthere

I saw nothing in the video that couldn't be tried or practiced by anyone. Several trees were dropped in a short amount of time. I commented about the chain catching in the cut, thinking it was the rakers filed too low, and how that slowed down the cutting time.
Not sure why it was mentioned that it was not an instructional video.
Maybe because the feller moved quickly from tree to tree, but I figured there was a plan thought out beforehand of how the trees to be cut were situated, and leaning, and where the should be laid down one after another to easily top them and skid them out.
Maybe instructional to know how that plan was laid out, as this video was made using some sort of hat cam on the saw operator so capturing everything where he was looking... at the saw, up to the top of the tree being cut, back at the saw. He quickly cut out the wedge, and without walking around the tree, used the top of the bar to make the back cut. Enough lean to the trees to not use a wedge, and sawed the back cut right on through to the hinge. I thought a good, informative video of how it can be done.
Maybe there is another video in the making.   ;)

Maybe Bill_M will offer an explanation of his comment. I didn't figure it out and he just left it hanging.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

mesquite buckeye

I also appreciated the get er done nature of the video. Certainly works when you have an open side to drop them to. I also think it should be left, with a safety disclaimer. ;D 8) 8) 8) :snowball:
Manage 80 acre tree farm in central Missouri and Mesquite timber and about a gozillion saguaros in Arizona.

WH_Conley

Bill

bill m

A couple of things I thought were wrong was
1: Not once did I see where he looked up to size up a tree as for lean, heavy side, hazards, widow makers etc.
2: Not once did I see where he looked for his safe retreat from the tree as it was falling.
3: Most of the trees he cut he stood right there at the stump as it fell, not the safest place to be.
4: It appeared the stumps were not cut very low which in time could mean a lot of money left in the woods and something that at times can be a pain in the neck to work around.
As for putting a lot of wood on the ground in the shortest amount of time with little or no regard for personal safety I would think it's time to find a new line of work.
NH tc55da Metavic 4x4 trailer Stihl and Husky saws

Vance in AK

I too missed the video & would like to see it.  Repost with a disclaimer...  PLEASE!!!!

RayMO

Often times staying near the stump is safer than the mad dash some folks use to reach their safer position.
Their is a big difference between what is considered safe methods for dropping trees by a very experienced logger verses a casual tree cutter.

I do not know of a single experienced logger in my local area getting killed cutting timber but know of several wood cutters who were. That being said a freek accident can kill or maim even the safest and most careful among us....
Father & Son Logging and sawing operation .

two tired

I am not an expert by no means, but, when I enter the woods to fell timber I look at the way the timber is situated. most of the time I watch the back cut to gauge the way the tree is going to fall, also keeping in mind which way the wind is blowing. Most of the time I do this and more with out thinking about it, along with watching my suroundings. As I said,I am not an expert,just made a living as a "flathead" around 45 years or so.
when wondering about weather conditions call the dog in and see if he is wet

CCC4

Men, I only removed to vid due to bill m being sort of right. Anytime you post a cutting vid a safety warning should be put along with the vid, we don't want a total novice cutter going out after watching your video and get himself hurt.

However Sir I take offense in some of the things you said I was doing wrong, so I would like to answer your observations in the order you placed them.

1) Do you seriously think I just walked up to a tree w/o observation of lean, widow makers etc....stump jumped the tree and had it fall in lay? As far as looking up...my camera is pointed nearly straight down so I can pick up saw action. Trust me...I look up, especially on tall timber. I also however watch my kerf opening...you can tell what that tree is doing much faster and in smaller increments by reading your kerf.

2) Do you seriously think that I am not sizing up a retreat upon walking up to my next tree. IMO you should be able to judge lean, widow makers, stump defects, tree placement, and your overall surroundings as you are walking to the next tree. Granted some you have to study more than others...so more attention is payed to those areas.

3) Yes Sir, I am guilty of staying in the hole or "camping". That's about all I can say about that.

4) Now this one is the one I have a problem with and find it VERY insulting! My stumps will average 4 inches, I will waver the height do to flaw in the stump, rocks, sand splash. To tell me that my stumps were high and I leave valuable timber in the woods is as good as slapping me in the face and wearing a badge while doing it. Yes there were a couple of stumps in the vid that I could tell the butt was rotten...I mean did you ever consider that I saw something that you didn't? I take entirely too much pride in my work to have someone say I am losing my boss and the LO money by me high stumping.

I am actually sorry for ranting...I wouldn't have even responded, I don't really know what to say, I guess I am standing up for myself.

beenthere

CCC4
Thanks for responding, as I figured you had those 4 points covered. Now I know that you did.

Right or wrong on item #3, I don't run or even move very far from a stump when the tree drops. I have made (or considered) an escape path and will use it if the tree doesn't have a clear path to fall into or if I see something alarming that evolves. But when the tree starts its fall, I make sure it is going its intended path before moving any direction. As I say, right or wrong. Same when someone happens to be with me when I fall a tree... I want them close to me, not 15-20 ft. away.

I respect Bill_M's opinion for what he does when he cuts trees. And I think CCC4 knows how to fall trees.  ;D

And I will say, IMO the video has a lot to offer any viewer.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

thecfarm

Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

mesquite buckeye

Like a widow maker dropping out of the treetop onto your head when it starts to or is falling, or a throwback from an adjacent tree as your tree brushes past. :o

Or the whole top of the tree next to you falling onto the stump of the tree you are cutting because your tree was holding it up and you can't see it coming.... This actually happened to me. Only alive because it creaked and popped before it flipped over.
Manage 80 acre tree farm in central Missouri and Mesquite timber and about a gozillion saguaros in Arizona.

CCC4

Quote from: thecfarm on August 07, 2013, 09:47:14 PM
Alot can happen when cutting trees.

Yes Sir, I believe your statement pretty much wraps up logging in general. I'm not going to lie, I have had several close brushes within the last 19 years of cutting. Heck I missed (4) days the week before last due to me getting my jaw broken from something I didn't see. I figure my injury was one of those things...work 8-10 hour cutting days (6) days a week...that is enough trigger alone time to have something happen.

CCC4

Here are a couple of vids from a little while back. Possibly more than just me are stormed in this morning.

**ADVISORY** PLEASE DO NOT THINK OF THESE VIDS AS INSTRUCTIONAL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_8RiMRnfzk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXpCac3ZL8s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-e4F2Iadlw4  long bar, tired saw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2p6Fk6O-GEw  high grade oak...first tree took edge off my chain slightly

bill m

I watched the video many times before making the commits that I did. I try to also point out what I think is right and wrong. From the questions posed by bill5335 he appeared to be a novice and stump jumping is not a technique for beginners. I made those commits after being asked to explain my position on the video. Please repost the video unedited so everyone here can watch it again and form their own opinions. As for the high stumps reread my commit #4. I said they appeared to be high. Sometimes the angle of the camera makes it hard to judge distance. When someone else is in the woods with me if it's an experienced timber faller they may stand near my when I am cutting, anyone else two tree lengths minimum - no exceptions. As for "often times staying near the stump is safer then the mad dash some folks use to reach their safer position" I have not once found it safer to be near the stump and if someone is making a "mad dash" it does not seem like they are in control of the situation. These are just my opinions.
NH tc55da Metavic 4x4 trailer Stihl and Husky saws

Ed_K

I can see these clips are pure production,and you favor that saw.But you really need to go for a little more HP  ;D.You'd be suprised how much more production you'd get.
Can't tell if your cutting the stump clean after the trees fall,I saw you clean the butt,if you triped and landed on some stump pull it could hurt.
Ed K

KyLogger

His felling method is very similar to mine as well as similar timber (cept' we aint got none of that flat ground like that ;) )
This technique all but eliminates fiber pull, you may have a little on the outer edge of your holding wood side if trying to pull one a bit. I would say his stumps look alot like most of mine, nearly flush (Disclaimer: On high grade hardwood) on poplars and the like I will sometimes use a more "conventional" style of felling. One of the differences I did notice is that I typically make my deep SHALLOW notch conventionally and not humboldt style. I realize why he is doing it (to conserve marketable wood and have a flat butt cut. Alot of guys around here cut timber like that, just different strokes for different folks.

Now my biggest concern with his videos...............where in the heck did you all find a pine market??? SYP here are only worth $150 a thousand on the international stick, I AINT draggin em outta the woods for that!

Just my two cents,
Others mileage may vary...
Tom
I only work old iron because I secretly have a love affair with my service truck!

CCC4

Pine poles and pine saw logs are bringing $41 a ton. I am starting a huge tornado damaged Gubment job in a few minutes. Ultra gravy job, my boss thinned this set 7 years ago and the tornado knocked a Hell of a swath down...tons of snags standing to. Pine buyers are screaming right now...Bibbler is buying this, slipping bark and blued 80 to 100 loads. I should be able to cut 20 loads a week of it.

Flat ground...yeh I charish it when I get to cut on it. This set I m starting on is flat as a pancake...but it is the precurser to the sidelin' I will be on after this set.

KyLogger

We had a tornado hit here a year ago in March, and since then all I have been in has been in is tornado salvage.......I did have a couple of jobs in between where the timber was vertical in nature..... but not enough. I will volunteer to come cut some standing timber about now ;)

Tom
I only work old iron because I secretly have a love affair with my service truck!

mesquite buckeye

Down and halfway down trees hanging with widowmakers can't be any fun. Stay safe, Ky. ::)
Manage 80 acre tree farm in central Missouri and Mesquite timber and about a gozillion saguaros in Arizona.

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