Logging

[SkeeterD]

Hi All,

I'm new to the forum.  Yesterday I was offered  to explore doing a joint venture in harvesting 300 100 year old pecan trees in South Texas.  I know absolutely nothing about logging.  I found this forum last night and thought it was a good place to ask questions  Is this a venture worth considering?  Where do I start?

Thanks!

Steven

[WDH]

Are the trees in an orchard?  Orchard trees are mostly top and limbs with only a short section of the trunk worth sawing.  Limb wood in pecan is full of tension is not worth anything but firewood.  In fact, firewood, in the form of chunks for smoking meat might be the highest value for this wood.  Pecan is scaly, knarly, and very heavy.  Hard to saw and harder to dry straight. 

[SkeeterD]

Thanks for the reply.  It's an old pecan orchard.  I haven't even gone to look at it yet.  Just trying to determine if I should even consider it.

[beenthere]

Welcome to the Forestry Forum.

What part of this operation were you "offered" ??
If you know nothing about logging, what are the different parts of the "joint" adventure and which is to be yours?
Equipment maybe? 
What will your plan be for the harvested pecan logs?  Sell them, or do you have another plan?

Will do you good to get a look as you suggested. Look forward to hear more about it.

[CCC4]

Like beenthere asked.... what will your role be in this adventure? I have logged commercially for 19 years and I will tell you that field grown timber is IMO the most dangerous to fall. Being the said timber is 100 years old you know it is going to be squatty and heavy topped. Most likely the tops will be very evenly balanced...meaning no lean. More loggers in my area are killed by falling field timber more than any other.

With no lean...reading the tree will be of upmost importance. You will need to be familiar with notching and wedging..not just familiar but proficient! Trees such as these tend to stall when coming over into the notch, this is very dangerous because the heavy evenly balanced tops can really direct where the tree is going, possibly despite your faceing and wedging. Next danger is when they are falling, the heavy, wide, long outreaching limbs will lift the tree waaay up in the air, swinging in any direction it chooses. Finally, limbing such timber is just plain awful! The tree being held up in the air is going to have all it's weight on the limbs, when you touch them with the saw the pressures can cause the limb to explode and kick the saw out of your hands...or the limbs can pop off and crack you upside the head or face! I happen to be setting home since Tuesday after having a similar but different thing happen and break my jaw! 6 weeks of liquid food! Not fun my friend!

So with this all said...if YOU are doing the cutting...take no shame in passing this job up! Field timber is no where to learn.

[Ianab]

I think the first thing is to actually see the trees, take some pics and post those. This will determine if there is anything there that's worth recovering. If the trees are short, crooked and forked, then you don't really have any logs to work with, and you are looking a BIG heap of firewood.

Now if you look at most of the trees and you can see a good log in there, THEN it might be worth considering further.  But then you have to look at the logistics of harvesting and selling the logs. Or processing them further and selling the lumber etc. You need to work out that marketing side before you start. Even if you recover ~250 useful logs you are not making any money until they are sold.

As for the actual harvesting. I'd be looking at a large excavator with a "thumb". Reason is I'm thinking it's a clearing situation where the trees need to come out stumps and all, and the tops need to be disposed of too? Having a large excavator means you can push over trees, support them as they are limbed, and move and stack them easily. Then tidy up the site, fill holes, make burn piles etc. Having the heavy machinery there gets around a lot of the hazards that CCC4 mentions. Of course you need to take care as it's still hazardous work.

Am I right in thinking it's a clearing job, so any logs that are salvaged are basically a bonus? Owner might be happy to get enough to cover the cost of the clearing?

Should you get involved? What's your experience and that of the others involved? Who has the skills, (logging, machinery, marketing etc) needed to put the project together?

Ian

[SkeeterD]

Thanks for the replies.  Every thing is on the table as far as the business end.  It's a retired business owner, my neighbor, that has owned it for a least 25 years and hasn't done anything with it so he's in no hurry. Just brought it up in passing. It's not a clearing job, he would want something out of it.  I'm too old and fat to do the logging myself, but wouldn't mind being involved somehow, maybe run the excavator. No one, so far, involved has any experience.  I have a full time job and thought this could lend itself into a little extra income somehow. Weekend projects?.  Have no idea on the marketing end.  I have some commercial real estate that would be nice to utilize some how.  Is there any kind of market for Pecan Lumber or just Pecan Chips? I'm  thinking this may too big of a project to put together but will still proceed cautiously.  I'll post pictures when I can.

Steven

[Magicman]

Welcome to the Forestry Forum, SkeeterD.   

Him "wanting something out of it" sets off alarm bells.  He wants his land cleared of probably old and non-producing Pecan trees and wants to be paid for having it done.  Since you have no logging experience, marginal logs, and no market for the product, "proceeding cautiously" would be an understatement.

[Nemologger]

Id try to find someone with some logging experience to help you.

[WDH]

I would pass on it in a heartbeat.  There is not established market for pecan lumber that I know of. 

[isawlogs]

 Me, not ever seen a pecan plantation, would go check this one because of its age and then pass on it  :D
From the description I am reading it seams to me to be the same to me as pasture spruce....  It is only good to give shade to the cows or a good place  for a bird to build a nest.  :-\

[Claybraker]

A few years back, I had a dump truck load of pecan that was a yard tree. It had been dead for a while, and it was a cast iron puppy mother to split. Gnarly doesn't begin to describe it.

It burns good, and around here most any BBQ joint would be interested, but I don't know about Texas.

[YellowHammer]

I would pass on it in a heartbeat.  There is not established market for pecan lumber that I know of. 

Him "wanting something out of it" sets off alarm bells. 

Exactly.  As soon as he says he "wants something" out of it, then it should be considered and judged as a business deal.  So from a purely business standpoint, a commodity of no significant value (pecan orchard trees) means no market, no buyers, no profit, no way to pay expenses, no way to pay his "cut" so no deal.

YH

[SkeeterD]

Thanks all for the replies.  Glad I found the forum and asked the questions.  I'm going to pass on this.  Thanks again for all your help!

Steven

[loggah]

Good move !!!! walking away from that project is the right thing to do. Don

[Ianab]

It's always sad to a see potential resource like that go to waste, but unless you have the whole operation lined up, with the expertise, machinery and most importantly the market, then the deal just isn't going to fly.  :(

Ian

[beenthere]

I sure would like to see a pic of the trees to be "logged".

And agree with suggestions of others, that given the info you have, to not become involved (or at least not until you have a need for pecan wood in either short log or split firewood form). ;) 

With that need, you can decide on what investment of your equipment and your time you can afford to put towards the project.

[SkeeterD]

I'll try to get pictures sometime.  I've never seen this old of an orchard before.  Some big old pecan trees around here though. Especially on the golf course.  I find them every time. :D

[isawlogs]

  Pictures of the plantation would be greatly appreciated, thanks.      :P