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Getting started what mill?

Started by crane op, July 14, 2013, 06:22:48 PM

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crane op

I am wanting to buy a mill either a wood mizer lt40 or timberking 200o. I have 120 acres of mixed hard woods. I will be cutting oak hickory walnut and black locust.I would like to cut my lumber and once I get the hang of it do some custom milling. Any advise would be greatly appreciated. p.s. this is my first time posting on a forum and im not to computer savy please bear with me.
sthil 310 case 480 23 ton splitter

beenthere

Welcome to the Forestry Forum.
You will find a lot of good support for both makes of these mills from what I have gathered from reading the Forum over the years.

Where abouts are you?
Any milling experience?
Have you pulled up some threads here on the different mills through the "search" function (tab along top)?? 
Have you looked at the multitude of videos available? Not easy to look at them all :)

Pull up the proverbial stump and chat about what you have in mind, and maybe if there are any mills to see in your local area. (put some info in your bio, that will help).

Our sponsors have great information and very willing to help, including additional brands to the ones you mentioned. Lean on them.  ;D  All these sponsors' mills will cut good lumber from your logs so sorting them out that way won't work very well. ;)

south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

crane op

I have zero milling experience.  I have been running farm equip, construction equip, and chain saws from a young age. Hopefully I posted this in the right section I'm just learning how to do this.
sthil 310 case 480 23 ton splitter

Dave Shepard

Welcome to the Forum! I own a WM LT40 Super. WM is a great company. I don't have any TK experience, but there are a bunch of satisfied TK users on here as well. My first bit of advice is hydraulics. ;D I love'em. :D

Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

Magicman

Hello    crane op, and Welcome to the Forestry Forum. 

Sawmill owners tend to be partial to their brands, so the best answer to your question will come from yourself.  You need to actually put your hands on both machines or even others to be able to judge for yourself.  Reading here will also point out some strengths and weaknesses but real problems are vigorously addressed by manufacturers and corrected. 

Adding some personal information and your location to your profile will help us to identify some sawmill owners that my be close to you and willing to let you operate their sawmill as well as give you some other hands on experience.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

drobertson

Well said Lynn, I would recommend hands on all that interest you,  david
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

Nomad

     Magicman gave good advice.  See if you can find a Forum member near you who might let you play with him for a few hours.  Check the members map.  Add your location to your profile and maybe somebody will even make the offer.  Also, many manufacturers have lists of people who will either demo their mills for you or maybe let you play for awhile as well.
     And welcome to the Forum!
Buying a hammer doesn't make you a carpenter
WoodMizer LT50HDD51-WR
Lucas DSM23-19

cutterboy

Welcome crane. You have posted in the right section. Let your search for a sawmill be fun and not stressful. There is no such thing as a perfect mill, but almost all mills sold today are good mills. Whatever mill you chose will saw good lumber and you will enjoy it. Try sawing on as many mills as possible, but keep in mind that you will probably love all that you try. Good luck on your quest.... exciting times are ahead for you.     Cutter
To underestimate old men and old machines is the folly of youth. Frank C.

thecfarm

crane op,welcome to the forum. What's all the lumber going to be used for? There might be a woods expo near you,I just went to one just about 2 hours from me. Had a good time seeing the sawmills in motion. Might even be some at a County Fair. Take your time and enjoy the search. I looked and dreamed for 10 years before I had the money.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

crane op

First off I would like to thank everyone for the warm welcome.Once I get this computer figured out I will do a profile. I would love to see any band mill work all the mills that I know of close to me are circular. The wood iplan to cut for myself will be used for a saw shed ,hunting cabin and fire wood storage sheds. From reading other posts on here I have found links and advise on building with green lumber and I think ill give it a try.
sthil 310 case 480 23 ton splitter

WmFritz

Your posting like an old pro already, crane op.  ;)
One word of warning though!  Sawdust in your pockets gets addicting.  smiley_alcoholic_01
~Bill

2012 Homebuilt Bandmill
1959 Detroit built Ferguson TO35

justallan1

Welcome to the forum, Crane Op.
Like advised by others check out all of your options, watch as many videos as possible, try to find some shows to get to, ask any questions you may have and definitely spend a little time running some and talk with the folks who have had the mills awhile to get their opinion.

Allan

dgdrls

Welcome aboard crane op.   

As others have indicated you'll decide what you like best.
It's the Red tractor or Green tractor decision,
Now, I will add, maybe you would find a circle mill to your liking over a band?, Orange tractor. :D

My suggestion is test drive as many as you can and visit with sawyers.

Best
DGD

Seaman

Welcome, I agree with all, look at and play with as many mills as possible. As Dgdrls said, look outside the band box also, especially if you have larger logs.
Frank
Lucas dedicated slabber
Woodmizer LT40HD
John Deere 5310 W/ FEL
Semper Fi

Chuck White

Welcome to the Forestry Forum Crane Op.

I don't know about TK, but a Wood-Mizer rep. will get you started sawing when they deliver your mill.  TK most likely would too.  They'll make sure that you have the "basic" skills to operate the mill.

You don't have to obligate yourself to a new mill either, mine is a 1995 and I bought it in 2008, and at 13 years old it was cutting just fine when I got it and is today!
You can save yourself lots of money by going used!
~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

jdonovan

There is much more than just the mill that you will need to be successful.

There will be an array of supporting equipment. Tractor/skid-steer/excavator etc.. to move, haul, load logs, waste slabs, and sawdust. Kilns/sheds to dry, and store the lumber.

I would venture to say there is more cost in buildings and support equipment than the mill itself.


120 Acres is good to work from, but do you have any markets identified for the lumber?

Resources like trees are only valuable when/if you get paid. Many people will tell you species of tree XXXYYYZZZ is super valuable, and worth $2000 a bd-ft, but these are the same people who don't know anyone who will really write the check for that amount. They have just 'heard' they are that valuable.


dboyt

Crain op, welcome to the forum.  With your construction experience, becoming a sawmill op will be a piece of cake!  I would like to personally invite you to the Great Portable Sawmill Shoot-Out at this year's Paul Bunyan Show in Cambridge, Ohio Oct 5th &6th.  You can see band mills and swing blade mills working side-by-side, and talk with salesmen, as well as people who run the machines every day for their business.  There will also be loaders, edgers, conveyors, tractors, firewood splitters, and just about every kind of support equipment you can imagine.  You can find out more about the show & Shoot-Out by visiting the website www.ohioforest.org.  Hope to see you there!  By the way, if you want to come to southwest Missouri to play with my Norwood mill, drop me a personal message.
Norwood MX34 Pro portable sawmill, 8N Ford, Lewis Winch

pri0ritize

I would make sure you take your time and give a good look at swingmills as well. If you've got the support equipment to load them it looks like they can put a good amount of board footage out.

I have an LT40 and I really like it, I've had nothing but great service from WM as well.
2012 LT40HD
Random Stihl Chainsaws and more woodworking equipment than I care to inventory!

crane op

Thanks to everyone who has replied to my post. Now to answer a few of the questions. I think I probably have more support equipment than I could ever use in this small of operation as my parents farm 15000 acres and we do our own land clearing. I really hadn't planned to sell much wood off our land at first. I prefer to learn (screw up) cutting lumber for my own use .Down the road I would love to mill other peoples lumber at their location. The main reason for getting a mill is to learn a valuable new skill and keep me busy during the winter( the wife says I need something to do other  than hunt every day). I am definitely looking at used mills and thanks for the invite to ohio for the shootout I hope we can make it.
sthil 310 case 480 23 ton splitter

bandmiller2

Hook op,your used to working with real machinery,find a mill with the goodies hyd. loading, power feed debarker est.,you'll save your back and greatly increase your production.Oh and welcome. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

redbeard

Welcome crane op !  When I got hooked on sawmilling it took a couple of years to bite the bullet. Studied and studied them all. In the mean time I had my logs sawn on circle mills and band mills. Welcome to your new adventure in life !
Whidbey Woodworks and Custom Milling  2019 Cooks AC 3662T High production band mill and a Hud-son 60 Diesel wide cut bandmill  JD 2240 50hp Tractor with 145 loader IR 1044 all terrain fork lift  Cooks sharp

crane op

Ok some one explain blade degrees relative to type of wood . please
sthil 310 case 480 23 ton splitter

customsawyer

Welcome to the forum. For the most part the lower degree blades are for harder wood and higher degree blades for softer woods. I have been running 10° blades for all of my sawing for several years. I recently tried a 7° turbo blade by WM and might be switching over to them in the future. I have not tried them on pine yet so I have not made my decision yet. When WDH, myself and a few others were cutting some pecan (is in the hickory family and is considered the  smiley_devil due to how hard it is to cut) this past weekend we used 4° blades.
Two LT70s, Nyle L200 kiln, 4 head Pinheiro planer, 30" double surface Cantek planer, Lucas dedicated slabber, Slabmizer, and enough rolling stock and chainsaws to keep it all running.
www.thecustomsawyer.com

bandmiller2

Crane op,a couple of things to consider.Resale value WM has that by the short hairs.Sharpening bands is a big consideration you can go WM resharp or invest in a grinder and setter.If your lucky theirs a shop or individual in your area who will sharpen and set for you.If your mill will be kept on the farm give serious consideration to an electric,it is by far the best power for a stationary mill.I have used boath,electric is quiet,economical,and no fumes. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

dboyt

I keep an assortment of 10, 7 & 4 degree blades because I cut everything from pine to hedge.  I agree, less hook angle makes for a less aggressive cut which works better for the harder woods, and it stays sharp longer.  More hook angle in the soft woods will give you a higher production.  A lot depends on engine h.p.-- more power allows a greater angle for faster cutting.  By definition, hook is the angle at which the point of the blade meets the wood.  Here's an illustration.


 

Find out where other sawyers take their blades for sharpening.  If you are lucky enough to find someone local who does a good job, problem solved.  If you sharpen your own blades, you will also need a tooth setter.

Resale value depends more on the condition of the mill than the brand name. Keep it in a shed and maintain it well.  Sawmills that offer a hydraulic retrofit option allow you to start manual and build it to your needs as the business grows, so re-selling isn't even an issue, as far as I'm concerned.
Norwood MX34 Pro portable sawmill, 8N Ford, Lewis Winch

gjgauthier

Crane Op,
You've come to the right place for advice. everyone here wants to help and see you be successful. Two years a go I went through the same process you're in now and asked the same questions of the forum. It's great now to be on the posting end of the thread. Here's a few things I learned through the process.

I spent six months looking at saws and talking to experienced sawyers. I narrowed it down to a WM LT40SHD and the TK2000. I ended up going with the TK2000 and love it. A friend of mine went through a similar search a year ago and ended up with the same saw.

Find out how many saws of the type you're looking at are in your area. Make personal visits while they're sawing a job. Spend a 1/2 day to really see how it works. Find out what they like and what they wish was different with their rigs. You'l also get good tips on sawing technique and will make some good friends int he process. I'm still in touch with a couple guys I met during my site visits.

The standard hydraulic and setworks package on the TK I thought was a head of the rest. I was also sold on the 4-post design. My research concluded that TK was the better saw for what I wanted to do with it and it was also a better value. Having said that you're down to two very good companies. 

Both companies have been a round a long time and from my point of view have good service. TK conducts training when they deliver the saw. TK doesn't have the dealers like WM but I haven't found that to be a problem. Factory support has been very good.

Brand loyalty can be a personal thing (Ford vs GM). Right now, if I was going to buy another saw it would be another TK since there's nothing I'd want to change.

Good luck with your process and don't let it drive you crazy. At some point you've just got to pull the trigger and get sawing.

Greg
Timberking 2000, Logrite fetching arch. Woodmax chipper, Husqvarna 445, Stihl 041, Ford 335 tractor

crane op

Ok reading the replies  and other posts here I am going to do deeper research on mills not just throw my hat in the band mill ring.  Thank u fellas for slowing me down a bit.(that's moms job but she wont mind)
sthil 310 case 480 23 ton splitter

Magicman

Good decision.  Remember that we are all "brand loyal", so a hands on approach is always the best.   :)
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

ladylake


As most have said see both mills in action, look over how they're built, consider how complicated , maintance , log stops, log turner, setworks, debarker if needed, operator postion, controls, cost.  Both have advantages over the other in those things.  Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

crane op

Where is a good place to look for used mills. They arent any to be found around me?
sthil 310 case 480 23 ton splitter

ladylake


Sawmill exchange sells some used ones.  Far as watching them in action call up the company for ones near you.  Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

drobertson

there are too many variables in the equation for me, I really believe time has to be important to you, so hydraulics are in the mix, even though you have support equipment.  I read several posts, and am going to go the Ford, Chevy, Dodge, route, look for a Lt-40 Super, no lag on HP, for whatever you might run into, easy to off bear, and great set works, I did not want to say it, mainly cause I respect the other mill owners,  but waiting on this potential rain I thought I would chime in again,  david
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

ladylake

 
David  Do you ever work that 51hp down, I'd guess not. To me a 35 to 40hp diesel is about all a band can handle. Kind of like 28hp lawn mower with a 48" deck when a 16hp would be plenty. As I mentioned both mills have certain advantages over the other and should be decided by watching each one run with a good operator.   Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

wesdor

Welcome to the forum Crane op. I have an LT-15 which is much smaller than what you are considering, but live near the a Quad Cities.  I know a fellow nearby that has an LT70. 

Not sure where in east central Illinois you are, but I'd be happy to have you visit.

I agree, hands on with a variety of mills is the best route before you before making a decision.  Most of all have fun doing your research

drobertson

Howdy Steve, no not really, it has been a good one, but speaking from what I have seen in 9 years there are some big ones that come around, not unlike everyone else,  without question there is more money on the front side, but worth it when they are on the deck, a while back there was a discussion on required horsepower, and from a machinist(like to say tool makers) stand point hp can be a critical factor, My point was simply if one is going to be doing this on and off for himself, and the money is available why not go for one that can handle what comes, All the manufacturers have available sizes to accommodate, I am just very satisfied with my Lt-40 super, that's all,  my first instinct was to go for the EZ board walk mill, a good friend had one, and worked fine for him, it really boils down to available funds and the intended purpose, I just have to say, once one starts cutting it is like a previous post mentioned, sawdust in the pockets will become addicting, the fact is there are limits to every machine no matter what,   davud
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

Magicman

They are sometimes offered for sale on the For Sale board here on the FF.  Also check for trade in's with the sawmill manufacturers.  One additional source was listed above and sawmill trader is another.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Martha White Nelson

Welcome to the forum!!  I am a new member, also.
Have a great day!!  If you can contact my brother, Andy White, on the forum, he can tell you about his WoodMizer..  It is a great machine.
Martha

crane op

Sorry it took so long to reply. We have been out of town for youth base ball tourney and needless to say with 11 nine and ten year old boys we were all busy. this site is great it seems to be a place where people respect each other but still voice their opinion which creates a lot of great knowledge on here. Most gained from experience. As far as time line I would like to have a mill by December. As far as price like most I am on a budget and would love to find a low hour machine at a good price but some things I wont give up like hydraulics. I need to figure out how to send messages to people personally its got to be this darn computers fault. Thanks everyone for your comments.
sthil 310 case 480 23 ton splitter

beenthere

crane op
Click on a members name, and you will go to their "home", where you can click and send a PM (personal message).
Glad you are finding this a friendly site, as the rest of us do as well.  Jeff tries to keep it that way, and is great at making it successful with the help of his admins.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

customsawyer

All I am going to add is that with the higher HP machines you can push things a little harder sometimes. I know on the last two pecan logs that WDH and I were sawing the first log, which was the largest was also the easiest to cut. On the second log all 62hp was having to work. I am not saying that you could not have sawed that log with less hp I am just saying that the higher hp helped.
Two LT70s, Nyle L200 kiln, 4 head Pinheiro planer, 30" double surface Cantek planer, Lucas dedicated slabber, Slabmizer, and enough rolling stock and chainsaws to keep it all running.
www.thecustomsawyer.com

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