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How should I track the board feet I cut?

Started by gjgauthier, July 14, 2013, 01:22:36 PM

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gjgauthier

I've had a few jobs now and all have made more sense to charge by the hour. I know I'm going to have one shortly that will make more sense to charge by the BF.

How do you keep track of the BF your producing? First, I'm assuming most use sawn BF, not scaled from the log. Do you keep a tally of boards by size as they come off? Do you stack them tight and measure like size bundles? I want to have my method down before I get the job.

Greg
Timberking 2000, Logrite fetching arch. Woodmax chipper, Husqvarna 445, Stihl 041, Ford 335 tractor

beenthere

Greg
Will depend on how you stack it, and how many different thicknesses you are going to be sawing. Also will depend on the various lengths of the logs.

If the customer hauls it away to different locations, then you better tally as you go. Could be easy if the logs are the same length, the boards one thickness, and the offbearer solid piles them. Just measure the width, length, and height of the pile for the calculation. It gets more difficult from that point on. ;)
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

POSTON WIDEHEAD

When a big job comes in at my mill, I scale each log and write the board footage on the end of the log and give that log a number starting with #1.
I will then record each numbered log on my sawing pad.
This just helps to keep me straight and show the customer the BF that are in his logs.

The only logs I saw by the hour is Cedar. In my area, most Cedar logs have an 8 inch dia. or less.
All of my hardwood and Pine jobs are over an 8 inch dia. and I saw by he BF.


The older I get I wish my body could Re-Gen.

drobertson

I use all the mentioned methods as well, if dead stacked or sticker stacked 1" I do a bundle measurement, or count the layers then multiply by bd/lyr, if 2" is cut, I try to stack with even numbers per layer then tally the total at the end. If I have all custom cuts,ex. 8" ect.. I keep up with how many per layer, usually 5 with 8" boards, and tally at the end.  Tallying as you go is not a bad idea if things are moving and being loaded as you cut,   david
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

Tom the Sawyer

gjgauthier,

There are many ways to track your board footage, this is mine, I'm not saying its the best - just the way that works for me. 

I use a tally sheet on a clipboard at the operator's station of the mill.  Each sheet has room for 4 logs.  Each log has a table with the following info:  Log #, species, size, start time, end time, notes and the a grid that is 5 wide by 10 tall.  Across the top are columns for thickness (_/4).  Down the side are blanks for widths.

When I load a log on the mill I measure the small end diameter and the length - those are noted on the tally form along with the start time.  I don't tally boards until they are on the client's stack so if one is put off to be edged later I don't count it until done.  Two things that I added to my mill are very handy; one is a manual counter that is normally hand-held but mine is mounted on a magnetic base on the control panel, the other is a easy to read scale that is mounted on the operator's side of the first mill bunk - directly under the cant. 

As I finish milling a board I click the counter, I know the length of the log (which I round down to 6" increments) and the thickness already, and I can see the width on the scale.  When I change widths or thicknesses I'll put the current numbers on the tally sheet and zero the counter.  When I finish any edging I add them to the appropriate column/row.  Finish the log and I'll record the time.  Notes is for anything like a blade change, metal hits, fuel, or something that would affect the expected yield - like sweep.

It may sound detailed but it goes very quickly and enables me to be very accurate in my billing.  It takes a couple of logs to get used to it but it is so much more accurate than other methods I tried.  I seldom saw logs of a consistent length so trying to count boards already on the stack or trailer was very time consuming.  If you lose track with your counter or forget to write them down you can still do that. 

Once the job is done, or during a break, I punch the numbers into a database program on my Android phone and it calculates the board feet and milling fee for each entry.  I note the times and board dimensions/numbers on all logs, whether they are by the board foot or by the hour.  That way I can track total board footage I've milled, board footage on a blade, time efficiency for setting rates, etc.

The database program has pop-ups for everything, if I can work out a couple of improvements to its functionality this winter, I'll probably put it on a tablet computer mounted so that I can omit the paper portion of the system.
07 TK B-20, Custom log arch, 20' trailer w/log loading arch, F350 flatbed dually dump.  Piggy-back forklift.  LS tractor w/FEL, Bobcat S250 w/grapple, Stihl 025C 16", Husky 372XP 24/30" bars, Grizzly 20" planer, Nyle L200M DH kiln.
If you call and my wife says, "He's sawin logs", I ain't snoring.

Magicman

If it is "dead stacked" then measuring the stack is simpler for me.  Otherwise, I mark and tally each board at the end of the day's sawing.  If I will be there several days, then I use a different colored crayon to tally each day.

Different lengths are stickered in different stacks so that is not a problem. 
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

gjgauthier

All great ideas not that much different that I was thinking. I'm happy to know I was on the right track.

Tom - the tally sheet you use sounds interesting. Could you email me a copy so I can key one up for myself. The idea of the counter mounted to the operator station is a great idea too.

Thanks everyone for such great advice and support.

Greg
Timberking 2000, Logrite fetching arch. Woodmax chipper, Husqvarna 445, Stihl 041, Ford 335 tractor

Bibbyman

We tally each bundle when they are done. We often get orders for so many 2x6 by 12', just an example,  so it's easy to convert to board feet.

When we saw random width or length we usually make a SWAG.  Like the cedar in my video, boards were 4"-8" wide and 7'-9'. I just tight stacked the bundle and measured the width, counted the layers and figured 8' average length.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
Sawing since '94

Chuck White

I have my off-bearer stack each size boards in a separate stack.

In otherwords, 1x6x8 will go in one stack and 1x6x10 will go into a different stack and 2x6x8 will go into yet another stack.

At the end of the day I count the boards and put the quantities on the tally sheet.

Do the math and you have the board footage!

I usually do between 1,500 and 2,000 board feet in a day of sawing and tallying the lumber at the end of the day usually takes around 15 minutes.
~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

JustinW_NZ

I knew there was a reason I just charge by the hour  :D
I take a photo of the hour meter in the morning, and again once shut down at night   ;D

Cheers
Justin
Gear I run;
Woodmizer LT40 Super, Treefarmer C4D, 10ton wheel loader.

bandmiller2

After cutting I stack the lumber in 4' wide stacks.If the boards are 10' long each row will have 40 BF 2in double it. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

Tom the Sawyer

07 TK B-20, Custom log arch, 20' trailer w/log loading arch, F350 flatbed dually dump.  Piggy-back forklift.  LS tractor w/FEL, Bobcat S250 w/grapple, Stihl 025C 16", Husky 372XP 24/30" bars, Grizzly 20" planer, Nyle L200M DH kiln.
If you call and my wife says, "He's sawin logs", I ain't snoring.

Brucer

I do the same as Magicman and Chuck White.

I tally the wood whether I'm sawing by the BF or the hour. I also record the start and finish hour meter readings for the day. Those numbers are very useful when I'm trying to schedule a bunch of jobs.
Bruce    LT40HDG28 bandsaw
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand wrong answers."

captain_crunch

Forget log scale = you lose :P :P  tally what you cut because you get  more wood than scale says is in log Wonder why  Big mills are still in buisseness
M-14 Belsaw circle mill,HD-11 Log Loader,TD-14 Crawler,TD-9 Crawler and Ford 2910 Loader Tractor

Jim_Rogers

I usually charge by the bf unless I'm re-sawing some salvage beams into boards or planks.
In sawing customer's logs I have a tally sheet on a clip board on a table next to the operator's area.
As the lumber is stacked I tally the board/plank or timber. If it is to be edged then it isn't written down until it touched the finished pile.
Walk a piece off to the pile and tally on the walk back. Follow this over and over and you won't forget to tally one. Anytime you think you forgot one you can always count the number of pieces.
If you have several days worth in the pile, then I draw a line with a lumber crayon across the end grain at the start of the day to count only that day's cuttings.
I have a blank tally sheet for each day, and enter the numbers into the computer at the office at the end of the day.
This is one of those systems that you have to try and develop one that works for you.
This system works for me.

Jim Rogers
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

GDinMaine

I use a tally sheet too, but it has lumber sizes vertically from 1x4 to 1x12, 2x4\6\8\10\12 and 4x4\6x6.  In the same little box the board footage for one linear foot is noted.  The log length runs horizontally on the top of the sheet and this creates a grid.  Each time I'm ready to put something on the finished pile I add the number of marks to the proper board size. That way I know how many of each sizes are in the pile and can easily add up the board footage at the end of the day.  This way a lot of logs can be recorded on one sheet.  I also make a note on the starting and stopping engine hours.
It's the going that counts not the distance!

WM LT-40HD-D42

ladylake

Quote from: JustinW_NZ on July 14, 2013, 08:50:16 PM
I knew there was a reason I just charge by the hour  :D
I take a photo of the hour meter in the morning, and again once shut down at night   ;D

Cheers
Justin


Same reasoning here except I go by my watch. Customers with nice logs get a good deal, with junky logs they pay more per bf.  Had one yesterday morning wanting quite a few 3/4  x 1-1/4 x 8'  .   Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

Jeff

Our mill of course was a different animal, but we would never tally as we cut other than count lifts of lumber. I figure if you are tallying as you cut, you are wasting time that could be used towards the next milling operation. In a commercial sawmill everything is production. There is plenty of time to count when the dealing is done. :)
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Ron Wenrich

I figured up daily production for every mill I worked at.  I started by adding the starting mill tally, add what was taken out, and subtracted the ending mill tally.  I did piece counts on items that were standard sizes, like 1x6x8 or 7x9x8.  Random width boards were taken on a layer count basis and we made 4 length separations.  All our bundles were a sized to a standard, and we knew about how many feet there were to a layer.  It worked pretty good.

I guess it all depends on how accurate you really need to be.  I've found that with my clients, I could round off to the nearest 100 bf and they were alright with it.  I like to keep my concentration on the log that's in front of me. 
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Peter Drouin

Ron do  you have a sawmill. And if you do how many BF do you cut a year?
A&P saw Mill LLC.
45' of Wood Mizer, cutting since 1987.
License NH softwood grader.

Ron Wenrich

I sawed in a commercial mill for years.  I work primarily as a consultant to mills, at the present time.  I've sawn on everything from hand mills to automatic mills, and they were all circle mills.  Annual production was in the 2-2½ MMbf/yr.  Mostly hardwood grade.  Like Jeff, I've probably hit the million log mark.
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Peter Drouin

Thanks, I was not sure If the mill was yours or if you work for the mill
A&P saw Mill LLC.
45' of Wood Mizer, cutting since 1987.
License NH softwood grader.

Ron Wenrich

Strictly a journeyman sawyer.  It gave me the ability to use my skills without all the headaches of ownership. 
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

longtime lurker

All this makes me glad that any contract sawing we do is done on a log volume basis. Measure each log for girth and length, put them in the book, plug those numbers  and a unit value into a spreadsheet at the end of the day and it spits out a price for the job before I finish my first beer.  ;)

The quickest way to make a million dollars with a sawmill is to start with two million.

Jeff

I truly think that if you are using a log scale to figure your board footage at the log and using that to determine your footage, you won't even be close unless you are using different scales for different logs and different species. ALl of our lumber was sorted by length and size for dimensional, into the same size packages each time. We only tallied finished bundles at the end of the day. Grade lumber was stacked on carts to a certain width and height, and those were block scaled. I was paid production bonuses at one time, so I was pretty diligent on keeping my own counts so I could compare with the mill count at the end of the week.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

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