13 Degree WoodMizer Blades

[highleadtimber16]

Hi everyone, I decided to try a couple 13 degree blades on some tough cedar burn wood. I usually use 10 degree blades which work fairly well but I wanted to see what the 13's were like. To my surprise they were terrible! I can't understand why? My mill had never cut so wavy. The log was squared up and was about 16"x14". I was going my normal feed rate, had good water flow, and so on. I figured these blades would either be better or if not, at least be the same as the 10 degree blades. Anyone have some input as to why these blade were not doing the trick? The wood is tight and straight grain with few knots.

Thanks,

[beenthere]

Not surprised at your results. The consensus of experiences here on the Forum seem to be to saw with 10 deg or decrease the angle for better sawing (albeit taking more hp).

What led you to think going to 13 would be better? Just curious.

What is "tough cedar burn wood"  ??

[highleadtimber16]

It was suggested by Wood-Mizer. "Tough Cedar Burn Wood" old growth cedar that has had a fire pass through the stand of timber. Basically it bakes the wood making it tough to saw. Very nice dark colour though.

[JustinW_NZ]

yeah, 13s on soft stuff with lots of power really rip along.

on hard stuff pretty much what you found!

Cheers
Justin

[dgdrls]

Too much hook angle,  WM specs the 13 for soft wood.
May work well on cedar that is not fire roasted.

Per WM



 
     
A.    Tooth Spacing – is the distance between each tooth from one
tip to another.
B.    Radius – captures and removes sawdust while providing strength
in the tooth.
C.    Tooth Height – is the distance from the lowest point of the gullet
to the tip of the tooth.
D.    Hook Angle – is the number of degrees that the tooth face leans
forward of 90 degrees.
E.    Tooth Set – the distance the tooth is bent beyond the body
of the blade.
        

PROFILES
          
10 Degree         all-purpose profile for mixed hardwoods/ softer wood
          
13 Degree         softwoods
          
9 Degree         hardwoods/ seasoned woods. (Lower horsepower, smaller logs, narrow cuts)
          
7 Degree         frozen/tropical/ extreme hardwoods. (Higher Horsepower, wider cuts)
          
4 Degree         frozen/extreme hardwoods. (All horsepower)

Best
DGD

[Larry]

When I sawed a lot of bassword, I tried 13 and even went too 15 degrees.  Talk about fast sawing.  Basswood was about all I could saw with them.

You have to remember the more hook angle, the pointery the point, and the faster it dulls.  I settled on 10 degrees for bassword as a good compromise.

[bandmiller2]

Too much hook and bands tend to be grabby and will easily follow the grain and dodge around knots.Less hook the teeth act more like a scraper and wonder less.Your mileage may very. Frank C.

[NMFP]

Stick to 4,7 & 10 degree bands.  No need to go to extremely high hook angles.  I am sharpening about 400 bands a month now for numerous customers and all of them are now only using 4,7 and 10 degree with a majority being 4 and 7.  For some reason, the portable mill business liked to use high hook angles for a long time.  Stick to 4 and 7 and youll cut anything you can throw at your machine.  Give it a try!

[bandmiller2]

NMFP,your right,not long ago 10's were all you could get and folks just stuck with them,they work but I prefer around 7. Frank C.

[NMFP]

Yes, here is my thought.... If a 4 degree is a great band to cut hard to saw species such as hickory, white oak and so on and 10 degree works for a lot of stuff but not the real hard stuff,my thinking is a 7 is a "general purpose" band and not a 10 degree.  I was actually running 7 degree (actually 6) well before anyone was commercially manufacturing them.  Guys would stop and ask how I could saw everything with just one band type?  This was a true benefit of sharpening my own bands. 

Its still hard though for me to get older guys converted.  Being that I am only 32, they look at me as not knowing as much as they do so I just wait for them to need help and then we start the education process as to why what they have always done is not necessarily the best method!  I have slowly converted most of my guys to using the bands I recommend for their application but there are a few stubborn ones out there yet!!

[ladylake]

I think years ago a lot of mills were underpowered and the 10° pulled easier .    Steve

[beenthere]

............... "Tough Cedar Burn Wood" old growth cedar that has had a fire pass through the stand of timber. Basically it bakes the wood making it tough to saw. Very nice dark colour though.

Now you have raised my curiosity about this cedar.
A fire may kill the tree and it stands for a long time dead. Is that what you are sawing?

The thought that it somehow 'bakes' the wood to make it tough escapes me at the moment as to how it might do that.
But maybe longtime standing dead makes them tough to saw. Sure would like to hear more about these cedars.

[highleadtimber16]

I believe the fire went through the stand maybe 50-100 years ago. I'm not sure on all the scientific stuff on how the fire bakes the wood and so on. I do know it makes a difference! I guess it's essentially turning the wood back into dirt? I've sawn dead standing cedar that hasn't been burnt and the burn stuff. The burn stuff is a lot different. Thanks everyone for your help!

[beenthere]

You are saying these "fire-baked" trees have been dead for 50-100 years? 
Or they lived through those fires and now saw 'hard' ??

[highleadtimber16]

You are saying these "fire-baked" trees have been dead for 50-100 years? 
Or they lived through those fires and now saw 'hard' ??

I honestly couldn't tell you. The trees have certainly been dead for some time now, though some of them were partially alive. I'm guessing the fire passed through 50-100 years ago. They're from the Queen Charlottes and I've never been there so I don't know. I will ask my log broker because I to am now wondering.  All I know is the fire has affected the wood making it very hard and cumbersome to work with.

[bandmiller2]

I sharpen bands for a couple of millers,I don't even ask just grind to 7, they say they cut like new, never had a complaint. Frank C.

[highleadtimber16]

Well I think I'm gonna order a couple 7's from Wood-Mizer and give'r a try 

[Island Sawyer]

I have milled a lot of that type of cedar here on southern vancouver island. Sometimes the trees die by fire or whatever and they continue standing for decades. I used to work for a small log salvage company and we would heli-salvage them out of an existing second growth forest that was about 80-100 yrs old. Just being dead and standing for so long I think gives the wood enough time to dry out completely. They are tough to cut for sure.
   A blade you could also try on them is the 1 1/2"x10 degree but 50 thousandths thick. I havent cut any since the 7's came out but they should work as well. You just won't get the run time out of any blade other than a stellite in this type of red cedar.
--Ken