Lucas mill issue...ugh! Please help. (pic added)

ayerwood · June 29, 2013, 08:17:58 PM

I set up my mill this morning and it is making a "deep cut" on the vertical pass. It has happened randomly before, but today, I checked all I could think of and it continues on each pass. It is an 827 model and has worked like a champ until today. The cut is about 1/8 inch deep give or take. I was wasting nice maple and scaring wildlife with colorful language, so I gave up for the day. I have a huge amount to do next week and was hoping someone could give me some ideas on the culprit. Back to it tomorrow. Stressing me out. Thank you guys in advance!!!

redbeard · June 29, 2013, 08:43:57 PM

Could be the log , might be getting into some figure or distressed grain. What happens if you take three or four passes? Re read I see what your saying misunderstood.

ET · June 29, 2013, 08:59:38 PM

Are you using a re-tipped blade. Maybe the carbide teeth set too long? Ive never had that happen. Seems like only a minor vertical depth adjustment after a horizontal cut would do that.

fishpharmer · June 29, 2013, 09:18:49 PM

Is the "deep cut" a consistent depth from one end of the log to the other?

From left to right in picture the "deep cut" appears to get deeper?

My first guess is that the log or the mill or both are moving while sawing. Maybe not.

dgdrls · June 29, 2013, 09:30:11 PM

I'm a new 8/27 owner myself, so I'm no expert
at first blush this looks like a depth adjustment issue.
Check your manual, for the adjustment bolt.

Let us know,

DGD

ayerwood · June 29, 2013, 09:47:59 PM

ET...I have been using this same blade/tips milling a wack the last few weeks with no problems. That was one of my thoughts due to another situation where I had them re-tipped with the wrong tips one time in the past.

Fishpharmer...The cuts seem to be pretty consistent depthwise. I have been leaning toward movement of the mill but the corners are on boards and the level checked out in each direction. Checked several times. I also tried cutting at a 1/2 inch depth for a few planes to try to regain a flat surface and start fresh. Still cut deep on me.

I would say it was a sketchy log, but if that's the case, so were the first two. It was happening all morning. Just not sure. I GREATLY appreciate the feed back. Keep them coming. ??? I will be on here all night and will try to troubleshoot with all suggestions when I get back to the mill in the morning.

ayerwood · June 29, 2013, 09:52:56 PM

DGD...That's a perfectly timed post. I was just thumbing through the manual and am going to check that out now. A lot of vibration going on with my sawdust maker on hard surfaces. Maybe knocked that bolt loose? Thank you!

longtime lurker · June 30, 2013, 04:24:35 AM

Straight up... sharpen the blade, make sure it's square across the front of the tooth.
Then take several narrower horizontal cuts instead of one big one to meet your vertical cut.
Then look to see if those horizontal lines (if still there) are consistant from end to end.

If it's the log humping up in the middle from stress releasing the lines in the face will be deeper in the middle then at the ends.
Usually if I see that happening it means I've got a blade issue, or I'm cutting something ridiculously hard and trying to take too much in a pass. Change blades and see if that fixes it before you start playing with the adjustments, and if you do play with the adjustments write down exactly how much of a turn you adjusted it so you can go back later.

Ron Wenrich · June 30, 2013, 07:37:01 AM

I'm not a swingblade mill user, but I have a bit of experience in circle mills. I sawed on a big headrig with a vertical edger, and I would get those marks on logs when I had movement in my blade. That came from the blade pushing out. Several things can cause that.

Number one cause was generally teeth maintenance. If the blade gets dull, it needs to be sharpened. If the teeth are chipped on one side, it will pull your saw. It only takes one tooth, especially in those saws with so few teeth. Sawing hard logs makes tooth sharpness more of a factor.

Another one is the feed rate. Sawing hard maple is not the same as sawing white pine. You may have to slow the feed rate down, especially if there is any blade problem. If you have worn gullets, you could have problems with dust spillage.

Is the depth of the groove the same from one end to the other? If it is, then there may be a problem in some adjustment. If its not consistent on every cut, then I would look at the saw as being the problem.

And sometimes, its just in the log.

Seaman · June 30, 2013, 08:44:04 AM

Ayerwood, I can't type fast enough. I would be glad to talk to you after Church. PM me your # and I'll call you this afternoon.
Frank

terrifictimbersllc · June 30, 2013, 11:34:51 AM

"Vertical bounce" ? Get this pulling too fast through a vertical cut, wouldn't take much of it to have the saw cutting deeper than it should.

Seaman · June 30, 2013, 03:18:01 PM

If your horizontal adjustment is not right, then the two cuts will not meet correctly, as in the photo. So your vertical cut may be correct, but the right side of the blade is too high, which makes the cut look deep.
Is the lumber from the last cuts even edge to edge?
Look at the ORDER the adjustments are listed in the book, and check the patterns on cut faces.

And like LL says, take two four inch horizontal passes to cut eight inches, see what the the 4 inch cut looks like. Gimme a call and I will go to my mill and we can talk.
Frank 828-442-7404

ayerwood · July 01, 2013, 12:40:50 AM

Thanks for all the input gentlemen! I tinkered a little bit today, but had a previous engagement to attend, so I wasn't on it too long. I will be on it all day tomorrow and try the horizontal cuts idea(thanks LL) and also try one of my old blades. The blade currently on it seems to be straight as far as I can tell and no chinks in the tips. I will mess with the adjustment bolt as a last resort. It is currently tight. I will update tomorrow evening. Thanks again.

dgdrls · July 01, 2013, 05:53:03 AM

Quote from: ayerwood on July 01, 2013, 12:40:50 AM
Thanks for all the input gentlemen! I tinkered a little bit today, but had a previous engagement to attend, so I wasn't on it too long. I will be on it all day tomorrow and try the horizontal cuts idea(thanks LL) and also try one of my old blades. The blade currently on it seems to be straight as far as I can tell and no chinks in the tips. I will mess with the adjustment bolt as a last resort. It is currently tight. I will update tomorrow evening. Thanks again.

I wonder if that specific log was heating the blade too much and making it grow? It will be interesting to hear what you find,

DGD

Ianab · July 01, 2013, 06:10:55 AM

I'm not familiar with the adjustments on the Lucas, but one thing I would suggest.

Run a cut, then shut the mill down and let the blade cool off. It shouldn't be hot after one cut, if it is that suggests problems right away. Then with the engine off look at how the blade meets up with the cuts you made.

If the stationary blade lines up with the cuts, then you have a problem with the stops. Probably the horizontal position, so that edge of the blade is 1/4 too high. If the stationary blade isn't lining up with the cuts you made, then it's a blade problem. Lost tension or sharpened wrong etc, and is creeping up during the cut.

But that test should tell you whether to look at the blade or the mill adjustments.

Ian

Seaman · July 01, 2013, 06:20:39 AM

Ianab, that's a great idea! That's why I hang around with all you smart people.

KnotBB · July 01, 2013, 11:11:29 AM

Quote from: ayerwood on June 29, 2013, 08:17:58 PM
I set up my mill this morning and it is making a "deep cut" on the vertical pass. It has happened randomly before, but today, I checked all I could think of and it continues on each pass. It is an 827 model and has worked like a champ until today. The cut is about 1/8 inch deep give or take. I was wasting nice maple and scaring wildlife with colorful language, so I gave up for the day. I have a huge amount to do next week and was hoping someone could give me some ideas on the culprit. Back to it tomorrow. Stressing me out. Thank you guys in advance!!!

I too have an 827.

I assume the picture is the horizontal surface after a vertical pass and you were cutting about 4" wide. Hard to judge size without a reference

I don't see the "step" cuts where the blade is slightly tipped down. Necessary according to the manual because of geometer of the blade. Blade can't be perfectly level.

If the blade is slightly bigger in diameter than specs it would could cause the blade too over cut but that would also show up with a series of horizontal cuts you get when quarter sawing. Diameter is critical (too small and the board won't separate from the log).
You can check relative blade diameter by laying one blade on top of another with the centers and teeth ends exactly matched. Then, assuming they match, with the centers still alligned, offset the teeth to be able to measure check actual diameter.

SWAG: Check the wheels on the trolly for looseness/wear.

sigidi · July 01, 2013, 04:54:52 PM

Quote from: ayerwood on July 01, 2013, 12:40:50 AM
Thanks for all the input gentlemen! I tinkered a little bit today, but had a previous engagement to attend, so I wasn't on it too long. I will be on it all day tomorrow and try the horizontal cuts idea(thanks LL) and also try one of my old blades. The blade currently on it seems to be straight as far as I can tell and no chinks in the tips. I will mess with the adjustment bolt as a last resort. It is currently tight. I will update tomorrow evening. Thanks again.

Ayerwood, how'd ya go mate? is she all sorted? I'll post my 2c if not ;)

ayerwood · July 01, 2013, 10:15:29 PM

Well, after an interesting morning, I am back in the saddle! Thank you all for your insights and ideas on the issue at hand. After doing "everything" several times this morning, my Lucas is running like a champ again. I changed blades, I tinkered with the height adjustment, turned it down, then back up, etc., changed blades again, then changed the blade one more time. I did the half cut(4" then 4" again) several times with each adjustment and blade change. What's the saying? "Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results is insanity"? or something like that.

I guess, unfortunately, I can't really say 100% what the problem was. But after reading all your advice on here and having a great conversation with Frank, I am guessing the blade itself was "deformed" and messing me up. It was way off. But then again, my other blade had a similar, but not as bad result. But works fine now. Who knows?

The Lucas gods(aka the Forestry Forum members) smiled upon me today and sawdust resumed flying. Thanks again to all. I know it sounds crazy, but it was a big deal to me. I have a lot of work lined up. And an extra thanks to Frank. Its always fun and educational to chew the fat about the work we do everyday. 8) 8) 8)

ayerwood · July 01, 2013, 10:24:03 PM

And KnottBB, I will try that to compare with my other blades. And then send it to my blade guy who knows what he's doing!

And thanks for the offer sigidi...there is always a "next time"

thecfarm · July 02, 2013, 08:32:07 AM

Don't sound crazy to me at all. If it's not cutting right,it's not sawing right. ;)

sawmiller7753 · July 03, 2013, 12:56:53 PM

I have the 618 model and mine was doing the same thing. It corrected itself no adjustments at all. One thing I found thou, was before I begin to cut I make sure that all four corners are down after I lower the mill for the next cut. Sometimes the mill will get bound and not all corners are down ( two corners may be up a little). Hope this helps.

sigidi · July 05, 2013, 08:01:19 AM

Quote from: sawmiller7753 on July 03, 2013, 12:56:53 PM
I have the 618 model and mine was doing the same thing. It corrected itself no adjustments at all. One thing I found thou, was before I begin to cut I make sure that all four corners are down after I lower the mill for the next cut. Sometimes the mill will get bound and not all corners are down ( two corners may be up a little). Hope this helps.

Sawmiller - this tends to happen for a couple of reasons. Most often is when doing the drop for the next layer the end without the engine needs to go at least an inch BELOW the desired measurement, then wound back UP to the thickness desired. The end with the motor has weight on it and doesn't exhibit the problem as much. Another is the chains are loose and need to be touched up (they shouldn't be 'loose' on the back side of the sprocket) Also I go the extra mile by using silicone spray on my mill uprights every couple of weeks. The post gets a wipe down with a rag to get any sawdust build up off them, then I use silicone spray up the post where the collar for the track saddle runs, this dries off fast and limits further sawdust buildup.

sigidi · July 05, 2013, 08:02:16 AM

And I'm pleased you are back to makin sawdust fly Ayerwood ;) 8)

KnotBB · July 07, 2013, 01:02:52 PM

One last thought. When screwing the blade on the shaft be sure that the area is clean on the blade and the shaft flange. A little build up or sawdust will skew the blade. I have also found that tightening ever other screw (to the count of five) evens the torque.

I know that just going around tightening lug nut on brake rotors can warp the rotors, can't see why it wouldn't effect saw blades the same way.