iDRY Vacuum Kilns

Sponsors:

sharpener

Started by NMFP, June 11, 2013, 08:38:05 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

NMFP

Is it possible to sharpen other brands of bands on a WM CBN sharpener such as lenox, Simonds, kasco and so on?  4 cooks sharpeners and not keeping up with business and looking for other alternatives.  If wm does not make other wheels, is it possible to have them made somewhere?

Thanks  for all your opinions and thoughts!!

bandmiller2

NMFP,I would say yes to any gullet configuration close to WM.I use one cam on my cats claw to do almost all brands.Theirs a fella on the forum from Ireland that makes CBN wheels for most bands.  Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

NMFP

Yeah, I have numerous cams for my cats claw sharpeners but only really use a few of them because some are so close to each other.  I am wondering if the wm can be use for other brands because I have a lot of work coming in now and the 4 sharpeners I have are not keeping up with the work load.   Sharpening is my hang up and cleaning and setting is fully covered.

petefrom bearswamp

I have 2 wheels from Diagrind in Ireland for my WM older drag sharpener.
They work good.
The fellows handle  is Tommone
perhaps he will see this post and reply
Kubota 8540 tractor, FEL bucket and forks, Farmi winch
Kubota 900 RTV
Polaris 570 Sportsman ATV
3 Huskies 1 gas Echo 1 cordless Echo vintage Homelite super xl12
57 acres of woodland

Bibbyman

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9u-Mw6VJYYw&feature=youtube_gdata_player

The Shop Series CBN Wood-Mizer grinder I have has been replaced with new models.

I don't think different cams would be involved as the full profile wheel comes down and right back up.  Talk with Wood-Mizer to see if profiles other than their own are available.

CBN full profile grinding does a beautiful job with a lot less fuss.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
Sawing since '94

bandmiller2

If someone wants to design and build their own sharpener a CBN wheel is the way to go.It takes a philly lawyer to design the cam for a drag sharpener.Has anyone tried mist cooling for grinding bands its less mess if your not setup for coolant. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

HaroldSiefke

Quote from: petefrom bearswamp on June 12, 2013, 06:17:04 AM
I have 2 wheels from Diagrind in Ireland for my WM older drag sharpener.
They work good.
The fellows handle  is Tommone
perhaps he will see this post and reply
[/quote ) I have a old drags type grinder. I was wondering what you use for a cam?p
Harold

NMFP

Thanks for the comments and suggestions.  I am actually in touch with Tom and hope to come up with a solution for my back log of work with more coming in each day.  I never expected this problem to happen but this is a good problem to happen.

Any additional suggestions are greatly appreciated.

As far as talking with wood mizer, I haven't had any luck getting answers.

Thanks guys!

millstead

What is a cbn wheel and where do you purchase them

terrifictimbersllc

Quote from: millstead on June 13, 2013, 09:42:15 AM
What is a cbn wheel and where do you purchase them
CBN stands for cubic boron nitride.  It is a manmade industrial abrasive,  that depending on how it is processed, can be harder than diamond.  One trade name is Borazon. I think it is also called Amber Boron Nitride (ABN) because depending on purity it can be amber in color.   CBN is deposited on a profiled wheel to create an abrasive wheel that can have very long wear in grinding softer materials like steel.  Boron nitride has the chemical formula BN (one boron and one nitrogen atom).  Cubic refers to a specific crystalline form (cubes).  BN can exist also in a different crystalline form (hexagonal-hexagons) which is very soft. Hexagonal BN is used as a lubricant and cosmetic additive.  With respect to a substance having different crystalline forms with very different properties, this is like carbon, which which has a soft form- graphite ,  and a hard form, diamond (very hard).

Many CBN and ABN products, like diamond products,  are used industry wide for sharpening and grinding.Woodmizer sells CBN wheels matched to its blades and grinders.  Bailey's sells Dinasaw ABN grinding wheels for sharpening chains.   
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

petefrom bearswamp

Watching the video it almost appears that a smart guy (I am not one) could design a straight up and down cam for the old drag sharpeners then just get the cbn wheel from WM.
What are opinions on this?
When using Tome Mones wheels i am using some old light weight hydraulic oil called glacial blue for coolant.
Works OK but is a little messy.
Oil drips off of the blade at the first plastic guide on the left.
I catch drips in a can and dump it back into the reservoir
Pete
Kubota 8540 tractor, FEL bucket and forks, Farmi winch
Kubota 900 RTV
Polaris 570 Sportsman ATV
3 Huskies 1 gas Echo 1 cordless Echo vintage Homelite super xl12
57 acres of woodland

Bibbyman

Quote from: petefrom bearswamp on June 13, 2013, 04:29:26 PM
Watching the video it almost appears that a smart guy (I am not one) could design a straight up and down cam for the old drag sharpeners then just get the cbn wheel from WM.
What are opinions on this?
When using Tome Mones wheels i am using some old light weight hydraulic oil called glacial blue for coolant.
Works OK but is a little messy.
Oil drips off of the blade at the first plastic guide on the left.
I catch drips in a can and dump it back into the reservoir
Pete


 

Our Shop Series CBN grinder is basically a remodel of the standard stone drag grinder.   I understand Wood-Mizer offered a conversion kit at one time.  In my opinion the Shop Series is ok for the sawyer but to light for commercial use.  I'd love to have one of the new models but the one we have serves our needs.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
Sawing since '94

pineywoods

I have been looking at ways to upgrade my old wm drag type sharpener. Having to dress the wheel after sharpening 5 or 6 blades is a pain, but is necessary to get the desired results. I could cobble up a cam and use a wm cbn wheel, but that opened another can of worms. The little 12 volt motor don't have enough power to run a 1 inch wide wheel. Current thinking is to install a 1/4 hp 3600 rpm ac motor, cobble up a cam and use a standard gray 1 inch wide rock shaped to match a 10 deg blade. That way, I could still use water cooling instead of having to mess with the oil..
1995 Wood Mizer LT 40, Liquid cooled kawasaki,homebuilt hydraulics. Homebuilt solar dry kiln.  Woodmaster 718 planner, Kubota M4700 with homemade forks and winch, stihl  028, 029, Ms390
100k bd ft club.Charter member of The Grumpy old Men

VictorH

I too have just gotten a wheel from Diagrind in Ireland.  I just installed it the other day and tried it out.  I really like it.  I decided to try canola oil.  Seems to work well and the water pump seems to handle it.  I must not have had my profile correct before as I now get a full grind.  I'll try to get some pics of the wheel and maybe even a video of it in action.

bandmiller2

Honestly, does a CBN wheel give you a sharper tip than a regular wheel,a sharp tooth is a sharp tooth.If so I see no reason a CBN wheel could not be made for a drag sharpener you just would not have to dress it. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

NMFP

What I am looking at is the time saved in shaping a wheel going from one brand to another and also, I am looking at more equipment.  If I cannot sharpen other brands of bands other than wm, I see no benefit to purchasing a wm machine and will purchase another 1-2 cooks machines.  I am sure, either way, the final result is just as sharp as each other. 

There have been times I have used a complete wheel doing 20 different bands because of profile, steel quality and so on.  Trying to eliminate this and also, speed up the sharpening process.  Seems as though, every manufacturer has their own ide of tooth geometry and in the result, we have bands that work the same or similar but no concession to make the same as the other guy.  This is similar to purchasing a 5000$ tool box of tools and they say that it will only work on a ford.   Well, how does that help you if you work on all brands?

Thanks for everyones ideas and comments... greatly appreciated.

tommone

Frank, this is exactly what we do in Diagrind ,  I'll comment further later and clear up a few misconceptions, Tom

NMFP

Thanks Tom... I believe CBN is the way to go not only for speed but also for accuracy.

Thanks again!!

Chuck White

Quote from: bandmiller2 on June 12, 2013, 07:27:34 AM
If someone wants to design and build their own sharpener a CBN wheel is the way to go.It takes a philly lawyer to design the cam for a drag sharpener.Has anyone tried mist cooling for grinding bands its less mess if your not setup for coolant. Frank C.

I've been thinking about ways to hook up an air line so that a steady (not very much pressure) stream of air would blow on the blade/stone contact point.

Seems to me the blade could be cooled by air too, as opposed to water or oil.
~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

tommone

Chuck, check out fogbuster.com, may be what you need,  Tom

Hilltop366

Quote from: Chuck White on June 14, 2013, 09:48:21 AM
Quote from: bandmiller2 on June 12, 2013, 07:27:34 AM
If someone wants to design and build their own sharpener a CBN wheel is the way to go.It takes a philly lawyer to design the cam for a drag sharpener.Has anyone tried mist cooling for grinding bands its less mess if your not setup for coolant. Frank C.

I've been thinking about ways to hook up an air line so that a steady (not very much pressure) stream of air would blow on the blade/stone contact point.

Seems to me the blade could be cooled by air too, as opposed to water or oil.

That should not be too hard to do by using two valves, one to adjust air flow and one to turn the supply on and off might want to do it outside if it is blowing everything around. Perhaps a vacuum cleaner (the kind used for furnace cleaning) with a  nozzle to direct air flow could work. It would suck up the grindings in stead of blowing it around.

tommone

Interesting comments here on making sharpening easier.
Bandmiller2, this company mistbuster.com would be of interest to you for misting.
Terrifictimbersllc gives a good account of explaining what CBN is. A few things to add. GE invented CBN and called it Borazon whereas when De Beers came out with their version they call  it ABN (amber colured) Later on they brought out another version which was coloured black and called it Abrasive Boron Nitride ... ABN and confused the market temporarily.! I don't think purity is an issue , just a slightly different process. The starting point for CBN is hexagonal boron nitride which is resynthesised at very high temperature and pressure just like synthetic diamond.
CBN wheels are used all over the timber industry in profiling and side grinding wide bandsaw blades  (more popular in Europe than US) , knife grinding, Stellite tipped circular saws, reseating carbide tipped circular saws before retipping etc.
There are basically three different methods of manufacturing a CBN wheel.
Electroplated----the CBN particles are trapped onto the surface of a steel preform whilst the steel is being electroplated chemically with a nickel deposit until a single layer of CBN is produced. WM CBN full profile wheels are produced this way.
Resin bonded---CBN particles and powdered resin are mixed together , put into a mould, heated to a specific temperature and pressure ,then stripped from the mould and finished to spec.
Vitrified----similar idea to resin bond but mixed with borosilicate type materials and processed at much higher temperatures.    Commonly use in bearing manufacture, very long life and very expensive.
Anyone thinking of converting and old style WM drag sharpener to full profile should be wary that there is more than four times as much contact with the full profile than a 1/4" wide wheel and motors could be  underpowered and high wear on existing bearings could be a problem.Tom

bandmiller2

Tom,thanks for the explaination of the process I always envisioned brazing and sprinkling grits on the wheels. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

tommone

Frank C you're not too far out . I've seen Chinese products that look exactly like you describe. Not pretty
but not to western visual standards. Who knows , tomorrow the world.Tom

tommone

Bandmiller 2 I meant to point you to fogbuster.com not mistbuster.com, my mistake. Tom

Thank You Sponsors!