Advice needed for attacking big logs.

[Ronnie]

I run into large logs now and then that won't fit on my band mil " larger than 36" in diameter." I have one now that is  a 49" diameter oak and I will need to   cut it down the center? " is this the best method? " in order to get it on the mill. I love these big old logs but I don't have the proper equipment to deal with them. So I am looking for saw recommendations along with bar length and chain type. I will be the first to admit I don't know much about chainsaws my current arsenal consists of a stihl 270C much to small for these big logs. I am also rigging up a trailer and winch so I can go retrieve some of these big city logs. If cutting these big logs in two isn't to difficult I would like to do a lot more of these giant logs. I like the big ones!!!! I also posted this in the chainsaw section.

[beenthere]

Maybe the admins will roll it in to one post for ya.  :

[sigidi]

Ronnie, make friends with a Swing mill owner  8) ;D ;)

[kelLOGg]

I cut a 34" water oak down the middle w/ a chainsaw to get it on my mill. I bought a ripping chain for my 20" Husky and cut from the top, rolled it over and cut again. It fell apart in 2.5 hours and was pretty wasteful as I am not skilled at this. I used a chain around the log to allow the halves to fall safely. BTW, I could tell no difference in a ripping chain and a cross cut chain on this log. It was a challenge for my saw (and me). If you have a saw big enough to make a single cut that is the way to go, otherwise use two chains. It will be very satisfying when you see it fall apart.
Bob

[Nomad]

Ronnie, make friends with a Swing mill owner  8) ;D ;)

     X2 ;D

[bandmiller2]

I would be more inclined to split those big suckers.Have several wedges and some wooden ones.It helps if you make a cut with the chainsaw to start the wedges then work along the crack.Frank C.

[scully]

 

  

 
I just did a job with some huge cherry I ripped this 44+ " cherry with my saw . It was challangeing but man it made some great boards !

[moandrich]

I think you should have them hauled to Willington, CT and let some swamp yankees take a swing at them  :D :D
I like the chainsaw and wedge ideas, perhaps combine the 2?  I love cutting oversized logs also but hate when other people are around. 
I am afraid someone will get hurt.

[mikeb1079]

you need to talk to jake. (customsawyer).  this is his specialty.   i'm in the same boat as you in that i have access to a fair amount of large diameter trees.  i split em down the middle with my 066 but i can say that i'm not much good at it and it's a lot of work!  a whole lot of work w/o any material handling equipment.

[Tom the Sawyer]

Ronnie,

Welcome back, haven't heard from you for awhile.  I, too, get calls on oversized logs but my chainsaw isn't big enough to split them (I do have my chainsaw shop looking out for a decent, used, big saw for those special logs).  I've tried to find a swing mill owner within a 100 miles but was unsuccessful.  I've got a client in Lawrence with a 42" white ash on the ground - looking for someone to quarter it so we can mill it.

If you're going after large logs with a trailer and a winch, consider adding a loading arch.  It made things much easier for me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PNc5ITIFjo

[beenthere]

Very much like the Dang-Deadheader trailer loading technique. Good video of how it works.

[customsawyer]

It is not as bad as you would think. I do know that once the word gets out there that you can do these bigger logs you will tend to get more calls about them. I love them so for me that is a good thing.  I use a MS660 with a 48" bar and skip tooth chain. For this type of sawing I would not bother getting any ripping chain.

[JohnM]

If you're going after large logs with a trailer and a winch, consider adding a loading arch.  It made things much easier for me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PNc5ITIFjo

Tom, that is slick!  Nice work.

[WDH]

Tom,

That is a fine set-up.

[dboyt]

I generally parbuckle the logs from the side, but there have been many times I've wished I could load from the end like that.  What do you use for a winch?

[Tom the Sawyer]

Dave,

The winch is a MileMarker 8000 lb, 12v, winch.  For this kind of work seriously consider a wireless remote control - mine came with an 8' cord, not nearly long enough.

[slider]

I have done this with my 361

 using a 3/8 skip tooth but Jake's 48 does a much better job. Don't forget the wedges.

[slider]

May be wdh will come along and fix my last post,sorry.And it's not even beer time yet.

[beenthere]

slider
You can easily fix your posts, by going to them and clicking on the "Modify" button. Edit out any changes you want to make, then click on "Preview" to see just how your edited post will appear. Click on "Post" when it is right the way you want it.  8)

[redbeard]

Another method is to cut a path for guide rollers to clear . On my TK  B20  I can barely cut 24" between the rollers and  40" logs work OK I don't lose a lot of material. And I can make a 23" squared can't for future milling. Now really heavy logs it a whole another story. Must have support equipment. Cutting the paths can be done with chain saw you have

[Tom the Sawyer]

Maximum clearance height above the bed for my B-20 is 40", maximum cutting height is 27.5" (if I want to raise it enough to return) so it makes for a pretty heavy slabbing cut but it can be done.  I've had to notch quite a few big logs to get my rollers to pass, its not only the diameter of the log but even the slightest sweep can complicate things.

I've never had to take one off the mill as too big to handle but I've spent the better part of an hour shaving big ones down enough to fit.  Sometimes the owner likes to get involved.


 


  

 

[Delawhere Jack]

I let a customer trim a log on the mill with his chainsaw yesterday. Normally I don't even like doing it myself, but this guy was a logger, and he handled the saw like a surgeon handles a scalple.

[Delawhere Jack]

There's always the black powder and fuse option!  :D

I REALLY wanna try that myself someday.

[ladylake]

 
For the big and long ones I need to get a EZ boardwalk that can handle a 40" log and set it up to cut 40' long.   Steve

[Delawhere Jack]

For the big and long ones I need to get a EZ boardwalk that can handle a 40" log and set it up to cut 40' long.   Steve

I need to go fishing with you sometime....... ;)

[RayMO]

A good true chalk line around a big log makes it much easier to cut in half with a chainsaw. A big saw and long bar works best but a medium saw and 20" bar will get close enough in most species to let the splitting wedges finish the job.
  A big wheel  loader will finish up by using the forks to split the rest of way but must be careful as even heavy forks can be bent.
Fastest easiest way is with black powder and a wire lead using a 12 volt battery for ignition/detonation  ;D

[bandmiller2]

We all fall prey to BLS [big log syndrome] can't resist the challenge.Unless its for yourself or your paid by the hour big log are income loosers.A bloke earning a living with a mill would be wise to limit the log size to ones that can be processed without a hitch. Frank C.

[Magicman]

A bloke earning a living with a mill would be wise to limit the log size to ones that can be processed without a hitch. Frank C.

I normally saw by the bf, but when a big one hits the sawmill, hourly rates apply until it is reduced to normal sawing size.


 
Hourly rates apply while this 45" butt flair Cypress is Bibby'ed down to size.

[ddcuning]

I would quarter it with a chain saw then saw the quarters by alternating between the flat surfaces on each quarter. This will provide you with some very nice quartersawn lumber.

Dave C

[ladylake]

I would quarter it with a chain saw then saw the quarters by alternating between the flat surfaces on each quarter. This will provide you with some very nice quartersawn lumber.

Dave C

Wouldn't you have to turn the log end for end on every cut sawing like that.  Steve

[Ianab]

Wouldn't you have to turn the log end for end on every cut sawing like that.  Steve

Not end for end, just roll it 90 deg and dog it again.

But this is time consuming, so q-sawn boards generally cost more, and you would only do it on good quality logs where you will get a premium for the boards.

Ian

[customsawyer]

This is the way I do it. For those that have seen it before don't look.



 



 

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

I've seen it before but I still like to look. AMAZING! 

[mikeb1079]

jake (or others): 

i've seen you split those big dogs almost perfectly and i just can't do it to save my life.  my blade usually ends up diving, even with a new chain and bar.  will you share some tricks to sawing straight thru those with a longer bar?

also, you prefer using skip chain to halve those biggies?  why?

[WDH]

He nailed this one about as straight as you can get and dead center. 



 



 



 

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

I got to say it again......Amazing. Perfect cut!

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

jake   
will you share some tricks to sawing straight thru those with a longer bar?

Oh....Jake just holds the saw while Danny takes the picture. After the picture is taken, Danny takes the saw back and finishes the cut. Jake is just a stand in for Danny.  :D

[WDH]

A log-splitting-stunt-double..........Not  :D.

[ddcuning]

Those are perfect cuts! The ones I quarter look like my 4 year old had hold of them. Very nice job. I need to learn whatever tricks you use. I try to do all my oak as quartersawn and the chainsawing, even with a rip chain, is always the worst part.

Dave C

[JustCutIt]

Not too sure if our technique would work for hardwoods but this works well for softwoods. We orientate the  center frost check horizontally and place one end against something very sturdy (usually a big pile of logs). Place the forks of your front end loader, bobcat, tractor or any other flat point object tied to a machine. Insert the fork into the check and pry tilting the fork down the prying will split the log along the grain. When the grain strait you can cut perfect boards without any runout and can be done very quickly. With twist or lots of knots it requires more ramming speed and results become less predictable. But we don't want to cut twisted knotty logs Anyway right?

[Tom the Sawyer]

   I'm with MM on charging to shrink oversized logs.  Hourly prep rate until the first board comes off - then by the bf.  If it is them, or their tree guy, shaving the log down then I just show him where and don't charge.

[customsawyer]

I use skip tooth chain because a 48" bar is a little bit more than the should really be on a MS660. By using the skip tooth chain it helps to keep your RPMs up on the saw.
As to any tricks I really don't have any. The main thing I do is keep the saw sharp and drive it like you drive down the road. When you are driving down the road you don't look at the white or yellow line, you look at the horizon to keep your vehicle strait. Drive the saw the same way, keep most of your focus on the point where you want the saw to exit.

[Nomad]

I got to say it again......Amazing. Perfect cut!

     Jake is the Charlie Daniels of the chainsaw! ;D

[ladylake]

Wouldn't you have to turn the log end for end on every cut sawing like that.  Steve

Not end for end, just roll it 90 deg and dog it again.

But this is time consuming, so q-sawn boards generally cost more, and you would only do it on good quality logs where you will get a premium for the boards.

Ian

If you rolled it 90° the log would be sitting on the bark with nothing to keep it square and level, it would have to be turned end for end after every cut. Steve

[Ga Mtn Man]

Steve-  Using that method, you're taking the board off the bottom.

[JohnM]

When you are driving down the road you don't look at the white or yellow line, you look at the horizon to keep your vehicle strait. Drive the saw the same way, keep most of your focus on the point where you want the saw to exit.

That's great advice, Jake!  I used to be really into mountain biking, best advice I ever heard was look at where you want your bike/front tire to go.  If you're looking at the rock or gully you're going to hit it.  Same with hunting, picture where the bullet/arrow is going to exit not where it enters.  

Personally I'll just set the Lucas up around the bigguns and leave the chainsaw in the truck! ;) ;D :D  (Not that I have any actual experience with that yet. : )

JM

[beenthere]

Steve-  Using that method, you're taking the board off the bottom.

Set the height of the band at the thickness of boards you want, and take every board off the bottom. Just roll 90° to the next face. With a debarker, it would help when entering bark side first on every other pass.

End up with narrower and narrower boards that will dry with some crook, but will end up with all 1/4 sawn by the rules. Will have some stickers already made.

[WDH]

With that method, you actually get a lot of rift sawn lumber.

[Ianab]

The first boards, which are also the widest, are true quarter sawn, and are the "best" and most valuable. Then it tends toward rift sawn. This depends on whose rules you are using, as the grain doesn't need to be exactly 90 deg to be classed as q-sawn. So the next few boards are graded q-sawn, even if the grain isn't exactly 90 deg. The last narrow boards would be rift sawn, once the grain gets to ~60 deg. You could saw that into 2" material, to make the legs for the q-sawn table that you are making from the wider boards.  ;)

Unless you "radially" saw the whole log like slicing a pizza, any method is going to give some rift sawn boards. But that gives you pie shaped boards, and a LOT of waste. The trick is to get the best and widest boards at exactly 90 deg, then basically recover whatever else you can. The rift sawn boards aren't waste, they just aren't Q-sawn.

Ian

[WDH]

I really like rift sawn boards. too. 

[ValleyGuy]

Hi All,
I occasionally help a chairmaker friend with big logs. He just splits them with a maul and three or four metal wedges. Now and then he'll get a call from the local mill that they have a log that's too big for them. We'll usually get it halved or quartered in 20 minutes or less. Usually only works well with straight grained woods though. Tom the Sawyer mentioned a big ash tree, they split beautifully. Looking forward to trying it for milling.

M