Righty Tighty (oil filter)

JohnM · June 10, 2013, 05:33:43 PM

Guess I shouldn't have been chewing gum while I was doing my oil change on the Lucas. Filter said to turn 3/4 to 1 full turn after contact, guess I only got a half turn. :

No oil!

I'm not totally convinced it's the correct replacement filter either. :

The engine was at idle when it shut off. What are the chances I did some real damage?

JM

dgdrls · June 10, 2013, 05:48:56 PM

probably very little chance of issues, I believe the Kohlers have low oil cut-off.

http://www.bluebaronmachines.com/30hpkohlerspecs.html added after Nomad posted below

did you pre-fill the filter at least partially before you filled the crankcase?

Get a Napa or Kohler filter and top it off.

DGD

Nomad · June 10, 2013, 05:54:52 PM

I think DGDRLS is right about the low oil shut off. How long did you run it with the oil leaking? Seems you should've see oil running all over the place!
Regardless, if you didn't hear the valves clanking you most likely didn't do any real damage. Teaches you to check the oil after you fire it up and run it for a couple of seconds.
You should be able to just tighten up the filter and top off the oil.

hamish · June 10, 2013, 06:58:49 PM

Does the engine turn over freely? If so tighten the filter add oil and give it a whirl.

Yes that Kohler engine is equipped with a low oil/pressure sensor, the next biggest question is it still wired in and working properly. I see many engine with the oil alert system by-passed.

beenthere · June 10, 2013, 07:07:50 PM

hamish
Any apparent reason for disconnecting or by-passing that system?
Does it false-alarm occasionally? so gets jerked out?

bandmiller2 · June 10, 2013, 08:52:18 PM

John,usally if a spin on is going to leak it pukes out oil and is easy to spot and shutdown the engine.It should be standard procedure upon starting to check the filter at its base for leaks.I had one that had a slight dent in the can the constant pressure on and off flexed it so a crack developed. Frank C.

JohnM · June 10, 2013, 09:29:34 PM

Ok guys, thank you very much.

It sounded just like shutting it off with the key so I kind of had a feeling that's what happened. Didn't try cranking it again and checked the oil first thing. Dipstick shows what I found. :(

The lack of oil everywhere is what was throwing me. It is was Mobil 1 synthetic, so very clear and if it hit that spinning blade it would go flying. I didn't check the discharge chute or 'mud flap' for splatter. I only got this far through the log before she quit, had only had it running maybe 20min.

DGD, I didn't pre-fill it but cranked it a couple of times and topped off.

JM

thecfarm · June 10, 2013, 09:34:57 PM

The shutting it off with the key part sounds good John. Must be oil somewheres there.

hamish · June 10, 2013, 09:48:36 PM

Quote from: beenthere on June 10, 2013, 07:07:50 PM
hamish
Any apparent reason for disconnecting or by-passing that system?
Does it false-alarm occasionally? so gets jerked out?

Usually gets bypassed by those too lazy to have extra oil on hand, and other geniuses that assume the oil alert system is at fault, then is something completely different.

Axe Handle Hound · June 10, 2013, 09:49:19 PM

I ran an old Kohler without a low oil shut off out of oil last summer. To this day I have no idea where the oil went. No stains in the yard, no leaks down the side of engine block, no trace of where it went, but it obviously went somewhere. Sometimes it's just a mystery, but in my case it didn't have a happy ending. Sounds like yours will thankfully.

Seaman · June 10, 2013, 10:21:52 PM

John , i think you are good if you didn't hear any death wails. First time I changed the oil, right after purchase, the filter came off in three pieces. I think it was the factory filter, and the machine was eight or ten years old. I'll never know.
Hope you are still having fun.

bandmiller2 · June 11, 2013, 07:29:41 AM

John, are you sure you put the oil in and didn't dump it in something else like the hydraulic tank.?? Frank C.

proteus · June 11, 2013, 08:38:01 AM

John,

I have a Simplicity rider with a 15hp Kohler I bought in 2000. I was changing oil in my truck and the rider at the same time. I changed the filter in the mower and thought I would put the oil in at the same time i put it in the truck. Bad idea! I forgot to add the oil to the mower and it was such a nice day I thought it would be a good day to get the mowing done. One pass and it stopped like I had stepped on the brake. thinking the worst and hoping for the best, I pulled the plug and put a little oil in the cylinder. I was able to free the piston and get it started after adding oil ;). This happened in 2005 and it is still running great today.

JohnM · June 11, 2013, 05:26:27 PM

Quote from: bandmiller2 on June 11, 2013, 07:29:41 AM
John, are you sure you put the oil in and didn't dump it in something else like the hydraulic tank.?? Frank C.

:D Luckily I don't have a hydraulic tank, Frank! But shhhh

I gotta do the oil in the tractor next week, don't jinx it! ;) ;D :D

In that second pic I posted you can 'just' see that it was wet (well, oily) right at the bottom of the filter. I think it just sprayed out the bottom. There is nothing for it to hit (filter sits below the tracks) and it would have just shot out into the sawdust pile. This is all hindsight but I'm guessing I would have found the oil in the pile had I looked, wasn't thinking clearly at that point (ever? ???). Going to get a new filter anyway...and a couple more quarts of oil, try again tomorrow or Friday (stupid rain! :()

Thanks again for all the help/thoughts guys.

JM

sigidi · June 11, 2013, 06:55:38 PM

Good to hear you switched it off before it stopped John - good luck mate, fingers crossed for you

JohnM · June 11, 2013, 07:00:31 PM

Quote from: sigidi on June 11, 2013, 06:55:38 PM
Good to hear you switched it off before it stopped

Unfortunately I did no such thing. :( I'm just hoping the built in shut off worked (sounded like it did). Will know for sure tomorrow. Wish me luck.

ScottAR · June 11, 2013, 08:18:42 PM

Most of the kohlers run a 51348 Wix. Use a high zinc oil for best wear. I'm using valvoline racing conventional but any high zinc oil will work. Most car engines today have roller valvetrain and so regular oils cut the zinc since it's only there for flat tappet cams. These little engines still use flat tappets unless they've changed them recently.

losttheplot · June 11, 2013, 08:27:15 PM

Just a thought, but check to make sure the O-ring from the old filter did not stick to the engine flange, when you removed the old filter.

I've been caught out by the double O-ring mistake.

JohnM · June 11, 2013, 09:59:07 PM

Ok, so I'm getting more confused thanks to the internet. (going to try to post some outside links, not sure that's cool or not ???) My engine manual says use Kohler oil filter part # 12 050 01-S (short) or 52 050 02-S (tall), I went with the short. Advanced Auto gave me a Fram XG3614 (http://www.framcatalog.com/PartDetail.aspx?b=F&pn=XG3614). When I go to Fram's site and put in the short # it gives me PH8172 (http://www.framcatalog.com/PartDetailWindow.aspx?b=F&pn=PH8172). The only thing that seems to match on them is the threading!

How do I know I'm getting the right filter? (Heading to Napa tomorrow. Way more out of the way but seem to always have better luck with them.)

Btw I'm about as mechanical as a stump...obviously. ScottAR, I barely followed what you were saying. ;D Were does it tell you the zinc content on a bottle of oil? I've only ever found it a box of cereal. ;)

JM

bandmiller2 · June 12, 2013, 06:58:10 AM

NAPA should be able to match from the Kohler number. Spin on filters vary some have different micron rating outhers may or may not have an antidrainback valve.If you have the clearance the taller filter will give you more cleaning capacity.Of course the simple way is to buy a Kohler filter but you will pay more. Frank C.

ScottAR · June 12, 2013, 08:34:53 AM

The oil bottle will talk about it. Mine says zddp additive. I believe Kohler brand oil is high zinc but I've not read the bottle either. The advice about the old Oring from the filter is wise to check.

GDinMaine · June 12, 2013, 11:25:27 AM

Another thing to consider. When you change the oil in any engine never just dump in the amount the manual says. Put in a bit less and then just keep checking the dipstick until it shows a good level. Run the engine for a minute or two and then check the level again. I know this because I WAY overfilled my tractor the first time I changed the oil in it. Then I had to figure out how to drain out just a little without making a big mess. Let's just say it took me a while to clean up afterwards.

wetdog · June 12, 2013, 10:04:27 PM

If you still haven't found that missing oil, check inside your muffler before starting again.

sigidi · June 13, 2013, 04:42:42 AM

I just hope after all the good work finding the mill that all is well for ya mate ;)

They are pretty sturdy, but I have to admit, I haven't tried them without oil