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Triangular cant

Started by rimshot, May 30, 2013, 07:28:54 AM

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rimshot

I have an odd request from a friend.  He wants me to saw him up a triangular cant.  I have  Woodmizer lt10 manual bandsaw.  Not my idea but a strange request indeed.  It is apprently for a totem pole.  Can it be done?  Perhaps by shimming or something?

rimshot
LT 10 with a 10 h.p. and a converted boat trailer to provide mobility for a once permanent mill.

thecfarm

How big? I would use a jack too. Others have probably done it. I will bookmark this thread so I will know how too.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Magicman

I have unintentionally made them...... ;D   :D

Seriously, you will need to "wedge up" one side to get your angle.  Possibly even make a jig to hold the cant securely for the cuts.

Some pictures of your progress will be interesting.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

rimshot

a jig, now there is an idea.  Thanks, Majicman. If I were to first  cut a square cant and then build a sawable jig to hold the square cant at 45*, i would only have to run the darn thing through once.  I'll bet I could hit every nail in that jig twce even if I sawed 45* one time.

rim
LT 10 with a 10 h.p. and a converted boat trailer to provide mobility for a once permanent mill.

Magicman

My head is whacko this morning, but I was thinking 60°.   smiley_dizzy
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

isawlogs

  Made them a few times.   Open the log and get the width that you are looking for, keep the slab closeby, turn and saw second face so that you now have a 90° angle face.

you now have two faces of the triangle, what I do for the third is put the slabs back on with screws, keep the screws near the point of the triangle...(away from the blade ...). turn the log and with a square from the point of the two faces, square the log up and clamp in place and saw the last face so that all sides are of equal width. I have tapper compensators on my mill, you may need to use a jack to lift and get the faces just right, a little time consumming but once you do one it gets easier .    ;)
A man does not always grow wise as he grows old , but he always grows old as he grows wise .

   Marcel

rimshot

Majicman, you are A BETTER Geometry TEACHER than i AM A STUDENT.  uHHH!  THE DOG ATE MY HOMEWORK.  You are right.


RIM
LT 10 with a 10 h.p. and a converted boat trailer to provide mobility for a once permanent mill.

rimshot

Quote from: isawlogs on May 30, 2013, 08:09:21 AM
  Made them a few times.   Open the log and get the width that you are looking for, keep the slab closeby, turn and saw second face so that you now have a 90° angle face.

you now have two faces of the triangle, what I do for the third is put the slabs back on with screws, keep the screws near the point of the triangle...(away from the blade ...). turn the log and with a square from the point of the two faces, square the log up and clamp in place and saw the last face so that all sides are of equal width. I have tapper compensators on my mill, you may need to use a jack to lift and get the faces just right, a little time consumming but once you do one it gets easier .    ;)
===================
Thanks Isaw, That sounds like it would worksaw.

cfarm, I don't know how big he wants this thing just yet.



rim
LT 10 with a 10 h.p. and a converted boat trailer to provide mobility for a once permanent mill.

John Bartley

Quote from: rimshot on May 30, 2013, 08:11:31 AM
Majicman, you are A BETTER Geometry TEACHER than i AM A STUDENT.  uHHH!  THE DOG ATE MY HOMEWORK.  You are right.


RIM

Magicman is correct "if" what your customer wants is an equilateral triangle (same angle on all corners), but ..... maybe you should ask what the application is. It's possible that what he wants is a right-angle triangle (two 45's and a 90) to be used in a corner ... ??

John (just stirring the pot)
Kioti DK35HSE w/loader & forks
Champion 25hp band mill, 20' bed
Stihl MS361
Stihl 026

rimshot

Quote from: John Bartley link=topic=66936.msg1002059#msg1002059

..... maybe you Magicman is correct "if" what your customer wants is an equilateral triangle (same angle on all corners), but should ask what the application is. It's possible that what he wants is a right-angle triangle (two 45's and a 90) to be used in a corner ... ??

John (just stirring the pot)
==================

I'm trying to recall some of those figures as my mind floats back to the shapes and sizes of figures in Geometry class.  OK, I'll try for another reprieve.  In those days I think at 17 years of age my mind may have drifted to shapes other than were provided for in the text book. That's my story and I am sticking to it. 

I am thnking that if a cant is cut square and the cant was sawed corner to corner, the angle for holding the log would still be 45* if it was a right triangle when complated.  right

rim
LT 10 with a 10 h.p. and a converted boat trailer to provide mobility for a once permanent mill.

mad murdock

If you cut a square cant in half diagonally, you will have 2 pieces that have the shape of right triangles. A right triangle is any triangle with one 90deg angle. Any triangle when adding up the total of all the angles will always =180. An equilateral triangle has 3 = angles and thusly 3 equal length sides.  Pythagoreans theorem for right triangles is the lengths of the short sides squared and added together equals the length of the hypotenuse (long side) squared.  A squared + B squared = C squared. 
Turbosawmill M6 (now M8) Warrior Ultra liteweight, Granberg Alaskan III, lots of saws-gas powered and human powered :D

Kingcha

a Wood-mizer LT15 10hp Electric, 45hp Kioti tractor, electric smoker, wood-fired brick oven & yes a custom built Solar Kiln

beenthere

Rimshot,
A good idea to find out what the customer has in mind for a "triangle".  :)
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

PC-Urban-Sawyer

Quote from: rimshot on May 30, 2013, 08:36:23 AM
... In those days I think at 17 years of age my mind may have drifted to shapes other than were provided for in the text book. That's my story and I am sticking to it. 

Rim,

I think at that point in life, I was studying curves, not angles...

Herb

Andy White

Mad Murdock

I think the formula would be (a square+b square=square root c) Old and fuzzy, but I think it's right.     Andy
Learning by day, aching by night, but loving every minute of it!! Running HM126 Woodland Mill, Stihl MS290, Homemade Log Arch, JD 5103/FEL and complete woodshop of American Delta tools.

beenthere

Andy
Better go back and check that fuzzy logic out.   ;D

Quotethink the formula would be (a square+b square=square root c) Old and fuzzy, but I think it's right.     Andy

If you want to solve for C, then the square root of the quantity (a squared + b squared) will give you the value for C.  ;)
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

MSSawmill

Quote from: Andy White on May 30, 2013, 10:04:11 AM
Mad Murdock

I think the formula would be (a square+b square=square root c) Old and fuzzy, but I think it's right.     Andy

Negative. He had it right... "For any right triangle, the sum of the squares of the sides is equal to the square of the hypoteneuse." ... or something like that.

Why couldn't you build a jig that sits against the dogs and on the table that holds your cant at the correct angle? You cut the top of your log, put the jig in place, roll the log so  that the freshly cut side is against the jig, cut second side of triangle, roll again so that side is on the jig, and then cut the third side. Clamping the last cut would be the most difficult part, I think...
Home-built bandsaw mill
2004 Kubota M110 with LA1301 loader

Magicman

Ya take your wife's age, divide it by two, multiply that by the number of children that you have, subtract the number of years that you have been married, and then............  :)
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

captain_crunch

M_M
unless you like sleeping outside with the dog u keep answer to that to yourself :snowball: :snowball:
M-14 Belsaw circle mill,HD-11 Log Loader,TD-14 Crawler,TD-9 Crawler and Ford 2910 Loader Tractor

redbeard

I have milled Yurt parts and large sills by using a jig made in shop to keep milled parts consistent.

  

 
Whidbey Woodworks and Custom Milling  2019 Cooks AC 3662T High production band mill and a Hud-son 60 Diesel wide cut bandmill  JD 2240 50hp Tractor with 145 loader IR 1044 all terrain fork lift  Cooks sharp

mad murdock

Redbeard, my head is hurting looking at that jig of yours!  Nice workmanship, Ibet it took a bit of thinking to make that jig-5 separate pieces? glued and screwed together?  Looks very handy 8)
Turbosawmill M6 (now M8) Warrior Ultra liteweight, Granberg Alaskan III, lots of saws-gas powered and human powered :D

Ga Mtn Man

That is one sweet table saw extension you've got there Redbeard.
"If the women don't find you handsome they should at least find you handy." - Red Green


2012 LT40HDG29 with "Superized" hydraulics,  2 LogRite cant hooks, home-built log arch.

dblair

put it on a circle mill it will cut a triangle with this 

 
old Appomattox Iron Works circle mill.

woodyone.john

Back to the diversion, wasnt it the wolf man who said 'baby you got the curves but I got the angles. i still remember [some of] the 60's and 70's. thanks for the reminder!
Saw millers are just carpenters with bigger bits of wood

rimshot

Quote from: woodyone.john on June 01, 2013, 01:45:48 AM
Back to the diversion, wasnt it the wolf man who said 'baby you got the curves but I got the angles. i still remember [some of] the 60's and 70's. thanks for the reminder!
(woodyone.john
======================

It was all a giant conspiracy to keep us out of the triangular shaped log cant business. (big grin).  Hips or  hypotenuses, either or could get a young man in trouble back in those days.

rim (thinking logs these days)
LT 10 with a 10 h.p. and a converted boat trailer to provide mobility for a once permanent mill.

Magicman

How did da triangle cant go  ???
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

rimshot

How did da triangle cant go  ??? (Majicman)
===========

That's one of those jobs that is just still in the conception phase, Majicman.  first thing after reviewing some geometry class I took back in the 60's and this very thread I will need to find out what kind of triangle he is expecting. 

I will also let him pick a nice cedar log from the load (2 1/2 cords of White Cedar) I have coming.  I hope he's happy with an eight or ten footer for his totem pole.  If not I have some stunning Eastern White Cedar growing back in my woods.  I measured one up yesterday that measured 76" in diameter. but wait I was going to cut that tree for some nice boards.  It seems to me the diameter of the first butt log is going to be somewhere around 22" or so won't it.    I'm thinking that will about max out  my lt10.  That is a nice Tree for  White Cedar.

I am going to go take a picture of that tree right now nd when I do this triangle thing I will be sure to fly up some pics.

rim 
LT 10 with a 10 h.p. and a converted boat trailer to provide mobility for a once permanent mill.

Magicman

Quote from: rimshot on June 02, 2013, 01:06:56 PMI measured one up yesterday that measured 76" in diameter. 
:o  Over 6' diameter is a whopping big tree.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

rimshot

Has something changed with the upload picture process?. I'm not able to fly this picture up

rim
LT 10 with a 10 h.p. and a converted boat trailer to provide mobility for a once permanent mill.

beenthere

 :D
Not sure what "fly this up" means, but there are about 5 pics in your gallery added today.

From that point, when in your post at the message box, click on "Click here to add Photos to Post" and then get your gallery pic up, scroll down below it to see a couple ways to get it then in your post, or "fly it up"  ;D

I'm sure curious as to when totem poles started to be triangular. Must be a new fad?
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

rimshot

trying one more time, whew!  Anyway my labrador, Sparky got into this picture so viewers can get a better perspective of the size of this Cedar.



  

This tree is destined to not be a totem pole.  It is really sound also with no evidence of  a hollow bottom.  The 75" circumference was measured above the root bell.

Beenthere: I did not think INdian totem poles had to be triangles either.
LT 10 with a 10 h.p. and a converted boat trailer to provide mobility for a once permanent mill.

dboyt

Here's another geometry lesson; diameter is the distance around the tree, and circumference is the distance straight through it.  To get the diameter, divide the circumference by 3.14 (just round to 3 for estimating). I wish I could get customers to understand that.  I don't know how many times someone would call me about a 36" diameter walnut tree, and when I get there, find that they measured the circumference, and it is only 12" diameter.  They still want $5,000 for it, though.
Norwood MX34 Pro portable sawmill, 8N Ford, Lewis Winch

Nomad

Quote from: dboyt on June 03, 2013, 10:15:28 AM
Here's another geometry lesson; diameter is the distance around the tree, and circumference is the distance straight through it.  To get the diameter, divide the circumference by 3.14 (just round to 3 for estimating). I wish I could get customers to understand that.  I don't know how many times someone would call me about a 36" diameter walnut tree, and when I get there, find that they measured the circumference, and it is only 12" diameter.  They still want $5,000 for it, though.

                       GOTCHA!!!  ;D
Buying a hammer doesn't make you a carpenter
WoodMizer LT50HDD51-WR
Lucas DSM23-19

beenthere

Quotediameter is the distance around the tree, and circumference is the distance straight through it.

Sorry;  Maybe have those switched around?? 
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

GDinMaine

Quote from: beenthere on June 03, 2013, 11:13:27 AM
Quotediameter is the distance around the tree, and circumference is the distance straight through it.

Sorry;  Maybe have that switched around??

I was thinking the same thing.  On the other hand Dyslexics have more FNU.
It's the going that counts not the distance!

WM LT-40HD-D42

PC-Urban-Sawyer

Quote from: GDinMaine on June 03, 2013, 12:06:39 PM
Quote from: beenthere on June 03, 2013, 11:13:27 AM
Quotediameter is the distance around the tree, and circumference is the distance straight through it.

Sorry;  Maybe have that switched around??

I was thinking the same thing.  On the other hand Dyslexics have more FNU.

I always thought that was Dyslexics have more NUF...

Herb

MSSawmill

Quote from: beenthere on June 03, 2013, 11:13:27 AM
Quotediameter is the distance around the tree, and circumference is the distance straight through it.

Sorry;  Maybe have those switched around??

Yeah, he got the terms wrong in that sentence, but then got the formula right in the next one! :)

Circumference - distance around a circle
Diameter - length of a straight line from one side of a circle to the other and going through the exact center of the circle
Radius - distance from the exact center of the circle to any point on the circle

Radius = r
Diameter = d
Circumference = C
Pi = Π = (about) 3.14

d = 2r
C = Πd =2Πr

And just for fun,
Area of a circle - amount of space contained inside a circle (square inches,  for example)
A =Πr^2

Too much of a math geek in school and then married a girl with a degree in it! :)
Home-built bandsaw mill
2004 Kubota M110 with LA1301 loader

dboyt

Yeh, I switched them.  Not enuff coffee.  Now, professor, the volume of a truncated cone (in board feet) is...
Norwood MX34 Pro portable sawmill, 8N Ford, Lewis Winch

beenthere

What kerf?

Formulas are abound in the pub here.
A Collection of Log Rules

http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/fplgtr/fplgtr01.pdf
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

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