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Persimmon....What's it gonna do?

Started by POSTON WIDEHEAD, May 24, 2013, 08:48:08 PM

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POSTON WIDEHEAD

I put a 24" Persimmon on the mill today. Long story short.....hit 9 nails and a piece of a basketball bracket......blah, blah, blah. I wanted to saw lumber out of it but finally had to drop the blade down below the nails.
I salvaged 2 nice Mantles out of this log.
This is my first time, not only milling but seeing a Persimmon this big. 24 inches looked huge to me.

My question is, how will this wood react during air drying? Will the ends check as bad as White Oak?
The grain and character is beautiful.

Thanks ya'll.



  

  

 
The older I get I wish my body could Re-Gen.

WDH

It is persnickety to dry.  Likes to twist and warp.  A piece that thick will probably do OK.  I dried some 8/4, and it bowed a bit. 
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

dukndog

WDH is correct. Being so hard, it tends to warp and check a bunch. Coat the ends with latex or wax to prevent what you can and keep it in the shade/cool.
Nice big slab tho and it looks great!!
WM LT-15G25 w/PwrFeed, Mahindra 3510, Husky 385xp, Stihl MS261 and a wife who supports my hobby!!

GeneWengert-WoodDoc

Persimmon that is fairly clear is easier to dry than the pieces that you have.  So, you can expect warping, checking and end splitting and even water pockets.  The best advice is to dry it like you would dry white oak (carefully and slowly), and use end coating.  Do not put these pieces on the top of a pile, but rather use some other lumber to weight them dow so they will not warp as much...12" sticker spacing is probably worth it.
Gene - Author of articles in Sawmill & Woodlot and books: Drying Hardwood Lumber; VA Tech Solar Kiln; Sawing Edging & Trimming Hardwood Lumber. And more

POSTON WIDEHEAD

Thanks everyone. I have plenty of Anchor Seal to do the ends. And I'll weight it down on 12" spaced stickers.
I have never worked with this wood before and was looking for advice before I wasted my anchor seal on the ends.  :D It's a pretty wood and, to me, smells like pickled Silage when I'm sawing it. The metal in it didn't have a smell.  ;D
I appreciate your help.  smiley_thumbsup
The older I get I wish my body could Re-Gen.

WDH

I love the black that you see in persimmon at the branch nodes and the pith.  One way to ID persimmon is to take a small twig and cut into it to the pith at the node.  There almost always a black spot.  You can see the black spots at the center of the knots in your picture. 
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Riggs

That's some good looking mantle pieces. I've never seen Persimmon that big around here. About 12-14 inches diameter is as big as I have ever seen.
Every man's life ends the same way. It is only the details of how he lived and how he died that distinguish one man from another.~Ernest Hemingway

Norwood ML 26

Magicman

I was really surprised that more black was not inside of that Persimmon.  Our heartwood is always black.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

POSTON WIDEHEAD

Quote from: Riggs on May 25, 2013, 08:00:24 AM
That's some good looking mantle pieces. I've never seen Persimmon that big around here. About 12-14 inches diameter is as big as I have ever seen.

This tree came from someone yard judging by all the nails in it.


 
The older I get I wish my body could Re-Gen.

drobertson

David, you must be in high production not to de-vine these logs, ;D I just won't cut one like that, just me, and as mentioned, that is a big'n for sure, seems like allot of limb knots, 
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

Magicman

 

 
Vines??  I see no vines log.   :D
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

GAB

POSTONLT40HD:
Since the blade is the heart of the machine, sorry to hear you had to do a heart transplant.  One of the hazards of sawing urban trees.  Because of hardware I had to do 5 heart transplants last year.  Gerald
W-M LT40HDD34, SLR, JD 420, JD 950w/loader and Woods backhoe, V3507 Fransguard winch, Cordwood Saw, 18' flat bed trailer, and other toys.

POSTON WIDEHEAD

Quote from: GAB on May 26, 2013, 08:05:55 PM
POSTONLT40HD:
Since the blade is the heart of the machine, sorry to hear you had to do a heart transplant.  One of the hazards of sawing urban trees.  Because of hardware I had to do 5 heart transplants last year.  Gerald

I know. All the nails that was in this log almost made me junk the tree. I didn't show pics of all the metal.......sometimes I just get tired of talking about metal. ;D
The older I get I wish my body could Re-Gen.

POSTON WIDEHEAD

Quote from: drobertson on May 26, 2013, 06:17:15 PM
David, you must be in high production not to de-vine these logs, ;D I just won't cut one like that, just me, and as mentioned, that is a big'n for sure, seems like allot of limb knots,

Actually the limb knots were pretty small. But the vines? Put it on the mill.....let's see what's in it.  :)
The older I get I wish my body could Re-Gen.

WDH

Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

SAnVA

I hope thats English Ivy and not poison oak, the persimmon trees don't get very big around here seldom see one over 6" !

Nomad

Quote from: GAB on May 26, 2013, 08:05:55 PM
POSTONLT40HD:
Since the blade is the heart of the machine, sorry to hear you had to do a heart transplant.  One of the hazards of sawing urban trees.  Because of hardware I had to do 5 heart transplants last year.  Gerald

     5 in a year?  My record to date is 8 blades trashed in a day!  I hope I never break that record.  But the customer was paying for the bands, and he said keep going, so...
Buying a hammer doesn't make you a carpenter
WoodMizer LT50HDD51-WR
Lucas DSM23-19

GAB

nomad:
I broke 6 blades in a row (in the weld-all from the same box) one day and and hit hardware with the next two (from a different box).  That was a bad day for me.  W-M replaced the first six and the customer paid for the last two.  That was the only consolation.  I got better as the day wore on at changing blades or doing heart transplants which ever term you prefer.  Gerald
W-M LT40HDD34, SLR, JD 420, JD 950w/loader and Woods backhoe, V3507 Fransguard winch, Cordwood Saw, 18' flat bed trailer, and other toys.

WDH

I only sawed into one log dog today  :).
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

POSTON WIDEHEAD

The older I get I wish my body could Re-Gen.

drobertson

vines bother me :)  Just saying, whatever works, works, and I have seen MM's post on his pecan if I remember correctly, not a big fan of vines,  :)        david
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

Magicman

Me either.  Especially poison oak/ivy vines.  Those vines were removed from the Pecan log before I loaded it.   ;D
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

xlogger

Found this old post and was wondering how the persimmon came out? I had a logger call today and ask if I'd want to buy a 12 ft persimmon about 12" on small end. I cut a few mantels and slabs but not sure what to do with this log if I get it. He has not said a price. Any ideas on what to do with the log?
Timberking 2000, Turbo slabber Mill, 584 Case, Bobcat 773, solar kiln, Nyle L-53 DH kiln

WDH

Thick persimmon, 2 1/2" to 3" thick is valuable.  Hard to dry though. 
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

xlogger

I saw where you had a few outlets for persimmon but for a local market what do most people like to do with the wood?
Timberking 2000, Turbo slabber Mill, 584 Case, Bobcat 773, solar kiln, Nyle L-53 DH kiln

WDH

My markets are not local.  They are for persimmon for specialty uses.  Uses for the wood varies from making replica golf club heads, croquet mallets, hand plane bodies, and fingerboards for guitars.

He is a link to a website that shows how some of my persimmon was used.  Check out "Frassy" at the bottom of the page on the link. 

Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

zopi

Persimmon is particularly prized by custom golf club makers.

I am curious as to how it would work in building musical instuments.
Got Wood?
LT-15G GO chassis added.
WM sharpener and setter
And lots of junk.

POSTON WIDEHEAD

Quote from: zopi on May 10, 2015, 08:10:42 AM






I am curious as to how it would work in building musical instuments.

You may be on to something.....when I was sawing my Persimmon it made me sing.  ;D
The older I get I wish my body could Re-Gen.

pineywoods

I saw a bit of persimon. Most of it goes for game calls.  The black heart is a lot like ebony. .
1995 Wood Mizer LT 40, Liquid cooled kawasaki,homebuilt hydraulics. Homebuilt solar dry kiln.  Woodmaster 718 planner, Kubota M4700 with homemade forks and winch, stihl  028, 029, Ms390
100k bd ft club.Charter member of The Grumpy old Men

JB Griffin

The persimmon round here rarely(if ever) gets that big and is more pure than ya'lls southern type as it heart ain't black. ;D

As a cousin to ebony which is used for guitar fingerboards, it should work fine once its dry.
2000 LT40hyd remote 33hp Kubota with 6gpm hyd unit, 150 Prentice, WM bms250, Suffolk dual tooth setter

Over 3.5million bdft sawn with a Baker Dominator.

WDH

Apparently, one forgot to add the link  :).  One must do better. 

http://www.johndancerviolins.com/guitars.html
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

fishpharmer

"Frassy"  maybe short for sassa"Fras?"  Shows off WDH's product very nicely!
Built my own band mill with the help of Forestry Forum. 
Lucas 618 with 50" slabber
WoodmizerLT-40 Super Hydraulic
Deere 5065E mfwd w/553 loader

The reason a lot of people do not recognize opportunity is because it usually goes around wearing overalls looking like hard work. --Tom A. Edison

woodworker9

Dried persimmon is highly sought after by wooden plane makers (think woodworking planes, not flying planes) for the boxing.  Boxing is inserted into the plane bodies' sole in high wear areas, like corners and quirks, where the normal wood would wear down very quickly.  Being an ebony, it is the perfect wood for this.

I personally have had a difficult time finding it for my own use in making my planes.  When used, it is cut on the bias, at 55°, so that endgrain is found where edge grain is normally found.  Boards need to be at least 6" wide, and we usually have to resaw it 1/4" to 3/8" thick.

03' LT40HD25 Kohler hydraulic w/ accuset
MS 441, MS 290, New Holland L185

zopi

Hmm...did not know it was an ebony....I am thinking of my next fretboard and banjo bridge.

50 bucks for an ebony 1x2....somebody can kiss my...bandsaw...

I oughta run over west of here and hunt up some ironwood......that won't wear out...
Got Wood?
LT-15G GO chassis added.
WM sharpener and setter
And lots of junk.

WDH

Hard to beat persimmon for shock resistance and wear. 
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

mesquite buckeye

Persimmon is almost as hard to dry as red gum eucalyptus. Keep a close eye on it as it dries. Might not be as big a problem with your humidity, but when drying that type of stuff in the desert it can rip itself to pieces. I had to wet mine several times to slow it down. :'( :snowball: :snowball: :snowball:

Once you get it dry it behaves better. ;D
Manage 80 acre tree farm in central Missouri and Mesquite timber and about a gozillion saguaros in Arizona.

WDH

Yes, it is a challenge to dry, for sure.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

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