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new member with a question

Started by tcg, May 19, 2013, 06:53:50 PM

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tcg

Hello to All of You on Forestry Forum,

Please allow me to introduce myself I'm retired and living in rural NE Pennsylvania. I've been cutting firewood for many years and two years ago purchase an Alaskan chainsaw mill. Sold it and purchased a Logosl M8 paired with Husky 395XP. All I can say is why didn't I do this sooner. It is so rewarding and challenging sawing your own lumber.
I lurked around the forum for a period of time but finally wised up and joined. Wow what a wealth of knowledge is available for the members.

I have attempted to find a thread on a problem I have encountered but I may not be asking the correct question.
I have recently had waves (for lack of a better term) develop the full length of the lumber I'm milling and sometimes only in sections.
Please could someone share some suggestions as to what I am doing wrong or not doing that I should be doing?

Thank-you
Tom

Ed_K

Welcome tcg, on my mill which is a band mill it's usually a dull blade,but I have had wave from hard knots in hemlock and spruce.I've found that sawing spruce from tip to butt works to alieviate the wave.
Ed K

clww

Welcome to the Forestry Forum. :)
Many Stihl Saws-16"-60"
"Go Ask The Other Master Chief"
18-Wheeler Driver

mad murdock

Welcome tcg!  Milling is a blast, I have to agree. I started with an Alaskan, have added a Timberjig, and must say, I really like Logosol's approach and the flexibility that their way of doing things allows. Can you possibly post a pic or 2 of what you are seeing? Is it only on li
Long logs?  I know that Logosol recommends an attachment for long logs that stabilizes the main beam to the log when you are cutting long pieces. Keeping the chain sharp and depth gauges adjusted to consistsant height across the whole chain is really imperative for consistsant results. Feed rate in different densities of wood can also contribute to inconsistencies, from my limited experience, making sure the chain is doing the cutting and you are not having to force it into the cut makes a difference, you can tell that usually by keeping an eye on the size and consistsency of the chips coming out of the cut, same as you need to do with a band mill or circle saw.  Things you will get better at gauging the more you mill. I am hoping to swing a deal on an M7 before the end of the month as Baileys has a killer deal on them now.
Turbosawmill M6 (now M8) Warrior Ultra liteweight, Granberg Alaskan III, lots of saws-gas powered and human powered :D

Jay C. White Cloud

Welcome to the FF Tom, thanks for joining!!!

I'm going to just hit some highlights, as others have covered a lot so far.  Let us know what you figure out.

Of the chainsaw mill types, most are either "free end" or "fixed end," and both have their challenges.  One of the challenges with free end chainsaw mills is "waving" or "wedging" in the kerf line.  It can happen with all chainsaw mills, but more prone in the free end types.

Highlights of causes:

Dull chain.

Uneven tooth to raker variance.

"lipped" or "burred" bar.  Chainsaw bars (especially milling bars) should be tuned every third chain sharpening.  Which includes:

1.  Flipping the bar.

2.  Closing (gauging) the rail.

3.  Jointing (deburring) the bar. This tunes the rail surface the chain slides on.

Address the above, and see what happens.

Regards,

jay
"To posses an open mind, is to hold a key to many doors, and the ability to created doors where there were none before."

"When it is all said and done, they will have said they did it themselves."-teams response under a good leader.

Magicman

Welcome to the Forestry Forum,    tcg.   :)
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

dgdrls

Welcome to the FF tcg,

great group of folks here and lots of other boards to post on also,

DGD

Geeg

Welcome to the Forestry Forum tcg

Cheers
Geeg
Retired Airbus 380 Captain. Timberking 2200,  Kioti RX6010PC,  Nyle Kiln KD250, Polaris WV850

delvis

Welcome to the forum, the guys and gals here are great and have a lot of experience they are happy to share.

I have never used a chainsaw mill but I can tell you with my bandsaw mill if I am getting what looks like washboard in my cuts, it's because I am not feeding the blade through fast enough.  Don't know if that would carry over to a chainsaw chain or not, but it may.
If I never saw another board I will at least die happy having spent the last few years working with my dad!

dboyt

TCG, welcome to the forum.  Are you using a ripping chain or crosscut?  Skip tooth?  How are you gauging your raker depth?  What kind of wood are you cutting, and does this happen on all species?  And I'm not trying to be a wise guy, but just have to ask whether the chain gauge and bar gauge are matched.  A 0.58 chain in a 0.63 bar will have a little wobble to it.  A .050 will wobble a lot.  I used a chain saw mill before I got band mill, and still use it to break down the big logs.
Norwood MX34 Pro portable sawmill, 8N Ford, Lewis Winch

petefrom bearswamp

Welcome to the best forum in existence!
Tons of info here and a really good bunch of guys and gals.
pete
Kubota 8540 tractor, FEL bucket and forks, Farmi winch
Kubota 900 RTV
Polaris 570 Sportsman ATV
3 Huskies 1 gas Echo 1 cordless Echo vintage Homelite super xl12
57 acres of woodland

customsawyer

Two LT70s, Nyle L200 kiln, 4 head Pinheiro planer, 30" double surface Cantek planer, Lucas dedicated slabber, Slabmizer, and enough rolling stock and chainsaws to keep it all running.
www.thecustomsawyer.com

tcg

Good Evening All and Thank-you for all the replies.

First, Chet please accept my apology for not paying attention to where I was posting.

Below is a list of answers to many of the questions you kind folks asked in an attempt to help me.

I am using Woodland Pro 30RP rip chain, 20" bar and chain are .50".
At present most of the lumber is White Pine, some Norway Spruce but the wash boarding has mostly been in the White Pine.
No burrs on the bar I've filed them down.
Raker depth is .35"
I've not experienced the washboard with a new chain.
I free hand sharpen the chain but now I'm using an old Gramberg Sharpener to see if that has an affect.
Chips are more like fine sawdust.
Logs are 8' to 12' at various times it shows up on any of the lengths.

I'm not sure how to post the photo to show up on he reply.

https://forestryforum.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=5013&pid=136909#top_display_media

Thanks for all the advice, all the offers of help was a pleasant surprise.

Tom




Jay C. White Cloud

 

As long as you are not getting "waves" (dips and humps) and only "wash boarding" I would count yourself in good form.  These can be removed with a Scrub Plane or a #4 Smoother and a rondel sharpened  blade.

Wash boarding is common on hand sharpened ripping chain.

regards,

jay
"To posses an open mind, is to hold a key to many doors, and the ability to created doors where there were none before."

"When it is all said and done, they will have said they did it themselves."-teams response under a good leader.

Montana Sawyer

Are you debarking your logs?

If you are getting fine saw dust it sounds as if your chain is getting dull.

I have chainsaw milled a ton of Ponderosa Pine and had this type of issue, when not debarking.

My two cents.
There are basically three types of people......
Those that make things happen
Those that watch things happen
Those that wonder what just happened.

Make things happen...

thecfarm

tcg,welcome to the forum. The hard part with pictures is done. they are in your album. This should work for you.
I like to go to whatever post or start a new topic first to include a picture.Go to your gallery,it will open in a new window.Click onto your album,than click onto whatever picture you want,it will get bigger,than scroll down a little to find,Insert Image In Post,click onto that,click Yes and that is it. Some have to copy/paste the link to work.I like to hit the enter key at least once or twice to move the picture down away from what I am typing. The enter key really helps to leave some white space if posting more than one picture. Somewheres I think it says to add 10,000 to your user number or something like that to make a clickable icon to your gallery under your user name. Use the preview button to see how it looks and modify it if needed
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

fishpharmer

Built my own band mill with the help of Forestry Forum. 
Lucas 618 with 50" slabber
WoodmizerLT-40 Super Hydraulic
Deere 5065E mfwd w/553 loader

The reason a lot of people do not recognize opportunity is because it usually goes around wearing overalls looking like hard work. --Tom A. Edison

tcg

Jay

Would you recommend purchasing an electric sharpener to do rip chains?

Tom




Jay C. White Cloud

Hi Tom,

If you think you are going to do a lot of chainsaw milling, it wouldn't be a bad idea.  I still sharpen by hand quite often as the timbers are going to get planed anyway (or some other surface treatment.)  If you get one, don't get a cheap one, and read all the up to date reviews, as many of the better ones all come out of Italy and they just stick different names on them.  Baily's has one that is about $400. and it is the same machine in almost all regards to one that is much less.

I would just get a good filling jig and keep going by hand for now.  If you are using these for a log cabin and the surface is visible, use the planes.

Regards,

jay
"To posses an open mind, is to hold a key to many doors, and the ability to created doors where there were none before."

"When it is all said and done, they will have said they did it themselves."-teams response under a good leader.

Seaman

tcg, I agree with Jay on the sharpening. A LITTLE difference in right and left cutter angle makes a huge diff when you are talking ripping rather than crosscutting. I ended up buying an electric sharpener for my Lucas, I can't seem to perfect the hand sharpening.
As long as you are not thick and thin end to end, surface is not a huge problem.
Welcome to the gang!
Frank
Lucas dedicated slabber
Woodmizer LT40HD
John Deere 5310 W/ FEL
Semper Fi

Hilltop366

Welcome TCG, the only time i have seen a saw pattern like that is when I put a 35° chain on the mill, after grinding the cutters to 10° the problem never reoccurred.  I did find that the closer to 0° that I filed the chain the smoother the cut.

I am not sure if there is any advantage to having any angle on a cutter, when you look at other rip saw blades like a ripping blade for a table saw or band mill they are usually ground at 0° to my understanding, perhaps someone in the know will chime in.

terrifictimbersllc

Will Maloff (Chainsaw lumber making) ground his chain at zero degrees top plate and 45 degree angle from vertical. He was cutting softwood mostly.
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

Jay C. White Cloud

Hey Tom,

Leave it to other members to, "knock a thought loose," in my head.  I never even brought up angle grind, (silly me) I just assumed....

QuoteA LITTLE difference in right and left cutter angle makes a huge diff when you are talking ripping rather than crosscutting.
Seaman is dead on with this advice.  It makes a huge difference.  A chainsaw in general is a "hogging" tool; made for "whacking" wood into pieces, so a little variation in grind doesn't matter too much.  However, when you get to milling with these machines they still want to "muscle through" the material, and if the chain is not ground accurately, well you get a, "wash board."

Quotethe only time i have seen a saw pattern like that is when I put a 35° chain on the mill, after grinding the cutters to 10° the problem never reoccurred.  I did find that the closer to 0° that I filed the chain the smoother the cut.   I am not sure if there is any advantage to having any angle on a cutter, when you look at other rip saw blades like a ripping blade for a table saw or band mill they are usually ground at 0° to my understanding, perhaps someone in the know will chime in.
More great info and very true!  If you are not using a 0° to 10°, across the cutter top, you are going to get a much rougher cut.  Some say that a 10° to 20° makes for faster cutting, which I have found it does, but not that much and it makes a much rougher kerf in the wood, which can also wonder.

Also, if you can get a copy from a library or (http://www.amazon.com/Chainsaw-Lumbermaking-Will-Malloff/dp/0918804124) as Dennis suggested, please do so, it's a wealth of knowledge as was the man him self.  It covers all kinds of methods and gives wonderful detail of "tooth grinds" both power and hand.
"To posses an open mind, is to hold a key to many doors, and the ability to created doors where there were none before."

"When it is all said and done, they will have said they did it themselves."-teams response under a good leader.

mesquite buckeye

If you are getting fine sawdust instead of shavings, check the cutter guide heights.
Manage 80 acre tree farm in central Missouri and Mesquite timber and about a gozillion saguaros in Arizona.

Jay C. White Cloud

I have read this reference by several folks about sawdust or frass.  If you have the recommended grind angles on your chainsaw mill, the frass or sawdust produced, depending on wood species and sharpness of chain, should be somewhere between "very coarse corn meal and rough sugar."  If the saw is producing a long thin curly shaving or chip, you are either approaching each cut at it vertex by shifting your saw back, and forth or you are not using a ripping chain, both of which can produce "wash boarding."
"To posses an open mind, is to hold a key to many doors, and the ability to created doors where there were none before."

"When it is all said and done, they will have said they did it themselves."-teams response under a good leader.

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