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preventing end splitting

Started by canopy, May 15, 2013, 09:36:39 AM

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canopy

A lot of the box cut timbers I work with developed end splits. This mainly started before they were even delivered. I waxed the ends, but old cracks are progressing in some cases and there appears to be new ones. Is there anything that can be done to slow down or stop cracks from widening and progressing further along?

mesquite buckeye

Once the cracks get started, they  are self propagating. You can always cut the timbers shorter if it gets too bad. If you are going to treat to prevent, which really means to reduce cracking the treatment needs to be applied right after cutting. The effectiveness of end coatings decreases rapidly as the ends of the logs start to dry out.

The simple explanation is that end grain dries something like 20X as fast as side grain. That is the source of the problem. End coatings were created to slow the loss from the end grain.
Manage 80 acre tree farm in central Missouri and Mesquite timber and about a gozillion saguaros in Arizona.

D L Bahler

can you show pictures of the cracks/splits? is it face cracking, end checking, or are the timbers splitting clean through?
some amount of cracking is bound to happen no matter what you do, though it can be minimized by storage conidtions, timed felling (dead of winter or midsummer is best) and coatings. i understand you dont have control of felling and sawing conidtions.


beenthere

canopy
Are these teak timbers? or something else? 
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

canopy

Yes, it is teak. Below is what it looks like today.


6x8's.  The lighter ones are where I brushed wax on mixed with turpentine. The darker end cuts means I melted wax in w/o turpentine. The dark ones have also already been cut to length so have less visible issues.


more 6x8's


4x6's


1x6's

mesquite buckeye

The first one looks like slabbing cracking from improper felling technique or impact after felling.

Bottom center of the 4 X 6's looks like the same thing.

Most of the other stuff looks like normal end cracking. If you slow down the drying rate, it might help.
Manage 80 acre tree farm in central Missouri and Mesquite timber and about a gozillion saguaros in Arizona.

losttheplot

I have seen the same type of heart checking in maple and alder, as you have in the first picture.
It is caused by stress in the log, usually from trees that lean, or multiple stems from a single root ball.

I don't know if it is internal stress causing your timbers to check.
DON'T BELIEVE EVERYTHING YOU THINK !

mesquite buckeye

When a leaner is felled, the tendency to slab is greatly increased. The worst case of this is a barber chair. However, the amount of slabbing varies with the forces, from invisible cracking, which will open up upon drying, through obvious slabbing to a slabbed off face. When minor slabbing extends visibly just a few inches above the cut, invisible cracking or stress can extend far above the visible damage at felling. dadgum you, Charlie! ;D :)
Manage 80 acre tree farm in central Missouri and Mesquite timber and about a gozillion saguaros in Arizona.

beenthere

?? ??
Confused what you mean by "slab" ??
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

mesquite buckeye

Splitting or cracking more or less parallel to the log confined to more or less a plane or spiraling plane.
Manage 80 acre tree farm in central Missouri and Mesquite timber and about a gozillion saguaros in Arizona.

Jeff

Quote from: beenthere on May 16, 2013, 12:22:42 PM
?? ??
Confused what you mean by "slab" ??

That's a pretty common term here.  "To slab"  often means barber chair. Or simply split up the length of the log.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

beenthere

 ::)
Always a first........  ;D
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

losttheplot







Broad leaf maple, 2 inch boards.
I lost around 1500bdft to splits, some 8ft boards split their entire length.
When I tried cutting it on a table saw, it would open up along the cut.
All caused from internal stress in the tree.
It was three trunks growing from a single root ball, all leaning away from each other.

DON'T BELIEVE EVERYTHING YOU THINK !

mesquite buckeye

Did all the cracking happen after milling, or was it started already when the log went on the mill?
Manage 80 acre tree farm in central Missouri and Mesquite timber and about a gozillion saguaros in Arizona.

losttheplot

I don't know the history of the trees so I can only speculate.
When I found the 3 trees, they were still attached to their combined root ball.
They washed up on the beach, in front of my house.
I guess they ether grew next to a river and the bank washed away, fell into the water and floated down stream into the ocean.
Or they grew at the base of a cliff, and fell into deep ocean water and drifted with the wind and current.

I bucked the tree length logs from the root ball whilst they were still floating in the water, the attached root ball was aground on the beach.
The tide went out and the logs lay on the beach, where I bucked them to log length.
I moved them to the mill with a log arch.
Some of the logs cracked 6 - 12 inches as I bucked them, most of them had 3 checks radiating from the heart just like the ones in canopies pics.
The top of each of the 3 trees split length ways into 3 sections as I bucked them to 16inch lengths for fire wood.


You can see a check in the end of the log in the foreground.

As I milled them some boards split 6 - 8 inches at each end, others had no signs of splitting.
After 6 months drying I culled half of the boards that had split badly, 6 months later and the remainder have also split.
Most of them had several inches between the two halves at the start of the split. some split right into two pieces.

I dont know why canopy's timbers are splitting, I have very little experience at this game, and I have never even seen a teak tree.
I can see what your saying about falling leaning trees and I don't doubt it can damage them.

Canopy, I hope your  timbers dont get any worse and wish you the best of luck with your project.

LTP.




DON'T BELIEVE EVERYTHING YOU THINK !

mesquite buckeye

The history is very helpful. We had some juniper logs that came down off the mountains in a landslide, then probably 5 miles or better bouncing down a canyon until they ended up on a sandbar. The ends looked bashed up, but I thought the logs were fairly solid when they went on the mill. We could see some cracking when the logs got milled, but I didn't think it was too bad. Lots of it just fell apart as it dried. The log was just full of cracks and splits from all the bashing it took on the trip down. Your logs may have been cracked from the fall, washing into the ocean, or pounding in the surf. They don't look as bad as mine did. Pretty interesting how the stuff can hide though.
Manage 80 acre tree farm in central Missouri and Mesquite timber and about a gozillion saguaros in Arizona.

mesquite buckeye

I'm curious. Did the logs behave while you milled them, or did they open up along the cut line?
Manage 80 acre tree farm in central Missouri and Mesquite timber and about a gozillion saguaros in Arizona.

losttheplot

They hardly moved as they were milled.
Then some of them bent like bananas as they dried.

I will try to find one to photograph where the ends are really pushed apart each side of the check.
DON'T BELIEVE EVERYTHING YOU THINK !

bowman316

This big long ash tree I was milling did that same thing, started to slab. 
The tree uprooted in a storm,  and the first thing i did to it was cut it in half, cross cuting, 20 ft from the base.  when i did this, the rootball side started to rise slightly, and barberchaired slightly.  almost got pinched cuz i figured it was gonna fall down, not up. 

Guess the weight of the rootball wants to pull the trunk back up.  And it has been exerting that force on the wood ever since it fell.  So when I milled the wood, the narrow end of the log wanted to bow up, from that memory i guess. 

It can be hard sometimes to tell what pressures are on a tree, and where it will pinch and what not.  exspecially in storm damage. 

canopy

It seems proper tree selection, proper felling, and getting end grain sealed early are all very important. It sounds like what can be done to rectify not getting these right at a later time is extremely limited. Sounds as if all one can do is cut them to length quickly to remove the dry ends and seal them and hope for the best and accept the splits that occur.

Jay C. White Cloud

Hey Paul,

Looks like you have been having some challenges with checking and splitting.  Some of this is natural, some of it is from the rough treatment the logs have seen.  End sealing as soon after cutting down is really important, but probably not going to happen unless you do your own logging or buy from one of the export loggers.  You can also "kerf" your timbers, thereby limiting and/or subjugating the surface checking.  "Butterflies" and/or "pinning" can also stop some severe splitting.

Regards,

jay
"To posses an open mind, is to hold a key to many doors, and the ability to created doors where there were none before."

"When it is all said and done, they will have said they did it themselves."-teams response under a good leader.

canopy

Thanks Jay. I never even considered butterflies for holding splits together and really like that approach. Hopefully I won't have anything that bad, but will file that in the memory bank in case I see any in the future.

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