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Stihl 029 cutting crooked...

Started by Thehardway, May 13, 2013, 09:41:29 AM

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Thehardway

I have an old Stihl 029 that seems to be cutting crooked and wearing the bar unevenly.  Trued up the bar but still seems like it isn't quite right. The sprocket has quite a bit of wear, could this be the culprit?  Having trouble maintaining good chain tension too.  Any suggestions?
Norwood LM2000 24HP w/28' bed, Hudson Oscar 18" 32' bed, Woodmaster 718 planer,  Kubota L185D, Stihl 029, Husqvarna 550XP

AdkStihl

Quote from: Thehardway on May 13, 2013, 09:41:29 AM
I have an old Stihl 029 that seems to be cutting crooked and wearing the bar unevenly.  Trued up the bar but still seems like it isn't quite right. The sprocket has quite a bit of wear, could this be the culprit?  Having trouble maintaining good chain tension too.  Any suggestions?

Replace your sprocket and check your tensioner. It may be stripped.
Are you hand filing your chains?
J.Miller Photography

joe_indi

Which type of sprocket does your 029 have?

Usually it is the spur type (the one on top). But a rim type (the one below)is also available.
If it is a spur type, by now, it would have deeper wear grooves than those shown in this picture.
If that were to happen, you would face the kind of problem described about difficulty in tensioning the chain.
Try moving the chain to the left and right of the guidebar. If it goes too far to either side the groove in the guidebar has widened, one of the reasons for crooked cuts.
Another reason could be an unevenly sharpened chain.
The former problem could be partially solved by using a hammer to tap the groove to a narrower width, or you need to replace that bar.
If the issue is an unevenly sharpened chain,you could get it corrected on a machine.

Joe

Thehardway

I have the top spur style sprocket.  It is very deeply grooved much more than the one pictured.  I noticed when the chain is tensioned it looks like it is coming out of the sprocket  bowed or crooked.  Would you recommend I replace it with the lower style sprocket?  Can they be swapped out without modification? Seems like the rim style would give chain better support.

There is no sided to side chain slop in the bar. I hand sharpen the chain and try to pay close attention to keeping it even.  I would suspect that as well but it does it with a brand new chain too. 

I plan on replacing sprocket and I will check the tensioned.
Norwood LM2000 24HP w/28' bed, Hudson Oscar 18" 32' bed, Woodmaster 718 planer,  Kubota L185D, Stihl 029, Husqvarna 550XP

joe_indi

There is a rim sprocket kit available for the 029 Part # 1125 007 1002.
No modifications, just plain swapping.
But, the spur sprocket does have its own advantages.
Unlike the rim sprocket, the same spur seats both a worn chain and a new chain.
If you were to run a new chain on a worn out rim, the seat may not be that good.You might have to change the rim sprocket (just the ring).
And, the spur is cheaper.
If you dont do too much of cutting, I would suggest that you stick with the spur.
But get a new one ASAP and chain the needle cage also.
Try the saw with the new sprocket before you do anything else
Joe

beenthere

Quoteand chain the needle cage also

joe
Good recommendations, but am wondering what the 'quote' means? 

A new chain and a new needle cage?
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

joe_indi

Quote from: beenthere on May 13, 2013, 01:16:14 PM
Quoteand chain the needle cage also

joe
Good recommendations, but am wondering what the 'quote' means? 

A new chain and a new needle cage?
A new chain and needle cage.

I have just replaced my old keyboard with an USB keyboard, which keeps throwing up errors if I type fast.
I guess I have to get that old keyboard out of the waste bin.
Joe

Thehardway

I picked up a sprocket and a needle cage bearing along with a chain on the way home.  I tore it down and decided to clean it all out good and check the oil pump too. I noticed there is some metallic particles burned into the plastic flange of the drive gear an the wire just seems to spin freely on the plastic.  Should it be replaced?
I also discovered the sprocket is a z8 and the old one was a z7. Any problems there? Running 18 and 20" bars with rs chain
Norwood LM2000 24HP w/28' bed, Hudson Oscar 18" 32' bed, Woodmaster 718 planer,  Kubota L185D, Stihl 029, Husqvarna 550XP

joe_indi

If the wire spins freely without the plastic not moving at all, you need to replace it.
The plastic bit works the oil pump.
The wire and plastic should rotate somewhat freely on the pump when you rotate it anti-clockwise
If you rotate it the other way, the drive will come upwards out of the pump.
This  check will also help decide if the pump is stuck.(from any metallic bits)
Speaking of the metallic bits, just check the rear side of the clutch if any bit has broken off

Joe

Thehardway

Yes, the wire rotates freely on the plastic in both directions.  Looks like another trip to the Stihl dealer tonite.  The metal was very fine stuff like you would see in metallic break pads and melted into the plastic.  I checked the clutch and no problem or metal misssing there.  There are a couple gouges on the brake band so maybe it came form there.  All the drive gear teeth in the pump look good and the pump turns freely.  BTW picked up a new air filter and wouldn't you know my saw is an older version and the new filter has a hole in it for the compensator.  Looks like Ill have to return it too when I go pick up the worm gear.  Thanks for all the great info.  With any luck I'll be back to making sawdust tonite.
Norwood LM2000 24HP w/28' bed, Hudson Oscar 18" 32' bed, Woodmaster 718 planer,  Kubota L185D, Stihl 029, Husqvarna 550XP

deerslayer

Suggestion: When you go to get parts, bring the saw and associated parts with you. Then you can make sure you have the correct items.
Too many chainsaws, not enough wood.
Stihl, Husky, Craftsman, Mac, Homelite, Poulan. Some live here, some just passing through.

CTYank

Quote from: Thehardway on May 13, 2013, 09:41:29 AM
I have an old Stihl 029 that seems to be cutting crooked and wearing the bar unevenly.  Trued up the bar but still seems like it isn't quite right. The sprocket has quite a bit of wear, could this be the culprit?  Having trouble maintaining good chain tension too.  Any suggestions?

Back to the first question- the circle-cutting. Both sides of the cutters have to be equally sharp, and approximately same length. They've probably worn the bar rails unevenly- that can be remedied with a bench grinder- no special tools required.

The groove in the bar has probably been widened; this is less of an issue with the cutters and bar rails being properly dealt with.
'72 blue Homelite 150
Echo 315, SRM-200DA
Poulan 2400, PP5020, PP4218
RedMax GZ4000, "Mac" 35 cc, Dolmar PS-6100
Husqy 576XP-AT
Tanaka 260 PF Polesaw, TBC-270PFD, ECS-3351B
Mix of mauls
Morso 7110

Thehardway

Thanks for all the replies and help.

Put it all back together with new oil pump gear and new sprocket and new needle cage. Ran it a bit the other day with old chain.  Cut straight for the first tank and then started to wander to the the left after that, although it was still cutting nice long ribbons of sweet gum.   A few of the cutter teeth are longer on one side so that is probably part if not all of the issue at this point.  The tension issue seems to be resolved with the new sprocket. 

Going to put the new chain on and see if that solves the problem.
Norwood LM2000 24HP w/28' bed, Hudson Oscar 18" 32' bed, Woodmaster 718 planer,  Kubota L185D, Stihl 029, Husqvarna 550XP

John Mc

I'd double check the bar rails and deburr and square them up if needed before putting on a new chain.
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

Ianab

A quick check for the bar being worn is to take it off the saw and try and stand on it's edge on the bench.

If it's worn unevenly you wont be able to balance it upright, it will keep falling to the same side. If that's the case then you need to get the bar dressed to even it up again.  Obviously if the rails of the bar are a different height the chain is going to move to the same angle when it cutting, and the cut wanders off to the side.

Ian
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

thecfarm

In all my years of cutting wood,sawing to one side has always been due to sharping,my fault. I just sharpen one side and I'm good to go again. I cut down alot of stumps low to the ground,because of my re claiming an old pasture.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

deerslayer

I realize a bar that needs dressing or has a worn groove CAN cause a saw to cut curves but in nearly 40 years of running saws I have never personally encountered a curving cut situation that was not caused by the chain.

I dress bars on a 12" disc sander which works great for that task.
Too many chainsaws, not enough wood.
Stihl, Husky, Craftsman, Mac, Homelite, Poulan. Some live here, some just passing through.

John Mc

Quote from: deerslayer on June 08, 2013, 10:23:34 AM
I realize a bar that needs dressing or has a worn groove CAN cause a saw to cut curves but in nearly 40 years of running saws I have never personally encountered a curving cut situation that was not caused by the chain.

I dress bars on a 12" disc sander which works great for that task.

If you are dressing your bars on a regular basis, then you won't see the problem.  I've had it happen once to me, early on in my cutting days, and have fixed the bars for about 5 other people who were having the same problem.  Most of these folks didn't even know you should check & maintain the bar, let alone what to look for.

Of course, this begs the question:  what caused the bar to wear unevenly in the first place?  There are probably a number of reasons, but an improperly sharpened chain could be one of them.  Of the other folk's bars I looked at, 3 had chains in awful shape on them, and two had just replaced their chains in an attempt to fix the problem.  My point in suggesting he check the bar before replacing the chain was 1) if you've got the chain off already, you might as well check it out, and 2) if you've got a badly worn bar, you can screw up the underside of your chain running it on that bar.

I've seen some pretty funky "fins" on bar rails, some pointing out to the side, and some pointing straight up.  Neither is great for cutting, and some wear patterns can severely disrupt the bar lubrication, further trashing the bar, and messing up a good chain in the process.

What it boils down to is that both the chain and the bar need to be in good shape. Poor chain sharpening may be more common, but neither is all that hard to check and correct.

John Mc
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

thecfarm

I hardly ever dress my bar. But I do feel it should be done. It's just something I don't do. If I'm at the house and put a new chain on,I'll grind the bar. But if I'm in the woods and a new chain goes on,no grinding is done.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

deerslayer

Quote from: thecfarm on June 08, 2013, 10:05:04 PM
I hardly ever dress my bar. But I do feel it should be done. It's just something I don't do. If I'm at the house and put a new chain on,I'll grind the bar. But if I'm in the woods and a new chain goes on,no grinding is done.

They don't need attention that often. Actually most of the bars I dress are on saws that are passing through. I have seen some seriously abused bars with damage that I can't even comprehend how it occurred. I have a bar in the shop now that has almost all the paint on it (old Homelite) but the thing has chips out of it in several places. Not sure it will even be good to use in the future. The saw doesn't run (yet) so hasn't become an issue.

I agree that both the bar and chain need to be in good order. (and the sprocket too)
Too many chainsaws, not enough wood.
Stihl, Husky, Craftsman, Mac, Homelite, Poulan. Some live here, some just passing through.

ladylake


The biggest thing that will ruin a bar is a dull chain, it's unbelievable how dull some people will run a chain.   Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

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