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Another Am I crazy question, and what is the best way to do this?

Started by sawman, May 12, 2013, 07:11:47 PM

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sawman

  Planning on starting a house later this year. We are wanting to finish the inside with southern yellow pine that we will cut off of our property. The big question is, what is the best way to tongue and groove the boards for paneling and ceiling planks?
What machine, (tool) would be the best choice for this project?
What would the ideal thickness be for the ruff sawn material? I was thinking of cutting on the inch mark scale on our LT40 which would give me approx 7/8" ruff sawn thickness, then planing (or not) down to 3/4"
Estimate about 8000 bd/ft required for this project
Going to try to start cutting pine in the next few weeks.
Thanks in advance for any and all input

'14 LT40 Hydraulic 26 HP koehler ,massey ferguson 2200 forklift, Case IH D40
Wallenstein FX85

Ianab

For any serious amount of T&G you will want a shaper. You can do a small amount with a router in a table, but for a whole house you want the shaper.

http://www.grizzly.com/products/category/510000

A power feeder will make life easier as well.

Ian
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

isawlogs

 Shaper would be great, as Ian has said, but, what is the budget for this?, If you plan on building the house and finishing, I would look into getting a Logosol PH260 planner/moulder.  Then you would be rocking.  :) Used units do come on the market every once in a while.
A man does not always grow wise as he grows old , but he always grows old as he grows wise .

   Marcel

sawman

budget ????
I have not set a firm budget number yet, am gathering information at this point so I can get a decent grasp for what will work best. Once I have the needed information I can put a presentation together and then present it to my CFO (wife). Fortunately she understands that in order for us to accomplish this goal, that we will need to buy some toys,
UUUHHHH I mean tools to do this.
'14 LT40 Hydraulic 26 HP koehler ,massey ferguson 2200 forklift, Case IH D40
Wallenstein FX85

hillbillyhogs

Logosol 's are GREAT.   cost wise a decent shaper and power feeder will do the job as well. A power feeder is almost a must to get consistent widths, etc. It's doable, doing 2k sq. ft. of oak strip floor now, see below

hillbillyhogs

To answer your question... NO YOU ARE NOT NUTS!!! 

You've got the best resource in the world right here, forestry forum.

thecfarm

Than if you did not want the tool,you could sell it. :'(
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

sawman

 I have a bad habit of not getting rid of tools.
Never know when you might need to use them again.
:) :) :) :)
'14 LT40 Hydraulic 26 HP koehler ,massey ferguson 2200 forklift, Case IH D40
Wallenstein FX85

t f flippo

Sawman, Good comments above. I'd go with a 220v shaper (I have two) and a power feeder. The shaper is going to be more versital , t & g cutters for flooring, t & g for paneling , shiplap ,moldings, raised panels, ect.

I do a lot of what you said. 1" on the scale, saws out to 7/8". When it's dry it will plane out to 3/4 with one good face, usually two. If you need two good faces or better 'grade' saw out 1'' so you can take an extra pass or two on the planner or jointer. I saw a lot of 3/4" and shiplap it for rough sawn siding/paneling.

jdtuttle

Are you going to kln dry the SYP? the pitch should be set at 160 deg. or you may have trouble with sap running. I have a Logosol PH260 and it works great for T & G. Check around you may find someone with the ability to T & G for a reasonable price , or even barter.
Have a great day

Ocklawahaboy

I am working on a smaller scale similar project.  Got my pine cut and stickered it in the air conditioned house.  Been there about 3 months now.  Went to pull a few boards out to use for another project and the middle of the stack was all moldy.  I have no idea what I did wrong.  I had swept the sawdust off it and everything.  I guess just be as careful as you can.  Next time I guess I'll add a box fan for extra air flow.

fuzzybear

   I am using a 3hp router on a custom built by me, router table. It is slow work, but the savings allowed me to purchase top quality bits to make every thing in the house. I have less than $400 into everything. I could not find a quality shaper for that price. 
  If you are planning on using the equipment for more than just the house and your own use then I would invest money on a shaper. Other wise why spend more than you have to?
  A router with a quality built table can do just as good a job as a shaper, but slower.
FB
I never met a tree I didn't like!!

beenthere

Ocklawahaboy
QuoteI have no idea what I did wrong.  .............  Next time I guess I'll add a box fan for extra air flow.
I think you have it figured out. Need air movement to air dry.
Maybe to salvage what you have, treat the mold with a bleach solution and restack the pine with some good air movement. I'd think you'd be okay then getting it dried in the AC controlled room.

Per the OP, and a T&G, I use a router mounted on a 20" long wood sled that incorporates a fence. It then avoids the router bit following a chipped edge and for me, gives better hand-held stability.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Ocklawahaboy

Quote from: beenthere on May 13, 2013, 01:30:16 PM
Ocklawahaboy
QuoteI have no idea what I did wrong.  .............  Next time I guess I'll add a box fan for extra air flow.
I think you have it figured out. Need air movement to air dry.

Per the use of the router to put on the T&G, I use a router mounted on a 20" long wood sled that incorporates a fence. It then avoids the router bit following a chipped edge and for me, gives better hand-held stability.
I would have thought being stacked in a room with AC would have been enough.  Used PVC for the stickers so there was plenty of spacing.  You live you learn I guess.  I am going to try to salvage it with some bleach water and planing.

beenthere

QuoteI am going to try to salvage it with some bleach water and planing.

I think a good plan, and if more drying needed, go with restacking and air movement. And may need to add a heat load to force the AC to bring down the relative humidity for better drying. Just cooling alone sometimes doesn't bring the humidity down enough.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

WmFritz



Per the OP, and a T&G, I use a router mounted on a 20" long wood sled that incorporates a fence. It then avoids the router bit following a chipped edge and for me, gives better hand-held stability.
[/quote]


BT, how does that sled work with longer pieces... say 8' ?  I'm thinking you must slide your board back in the sled after each 18" or so cut?
~Bill

2012 Homebuilt Bandmill
1959 Detroit built Ferguson TO35

beenthere

WmFritz
I move the hand-held router/sled along the board which is clamped to a sawhorse.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

WmFritz

Oh I see... I didn't think it out and assumed you were using a table with a sled.  blindsmiley

I like your way. I've got a similar project going on too. But, I'm doing shiplapped paneling. I started out with an underpowered table router and burned it up quick. Then I bought a cheap 3 HP router. It helped speed up production but, before long I smoked that one too. Now I'm on the table saw with a dado head. It works OK, just slow.

Might give your method a try with a good router. That would be a lot easier to handle alone
~Bill

2012 Homebuilt Bandmill
1959 Detroit built Ferguson TO35

Ianab

QuoteI would have thought being stacked in a room with AC would have been enough.  Used PVC for the stickers so there was plenty of spacing.  You live you learn I guess.  I am going to try to salvage it with some bleach water and planing.

If the outside boards dried, then the air conditions in the room are OK. But you have a heap of moisture trapped inside the stack that can't get out without that airflow though the middle of the stack. Usually it's better to air dry outside, where you have a breeze. Get the pine down to ~20%, where the mould is unlikely, a quick as possible. Then bring it inside to finish drying.

Clamping the boards and running the router along them is practical enough for smaller quantities. That's basically what would have been done pre power tool days. You would use a rabbet plane and start planing. Pay per hour was pretty low in those days though  :D

Ian
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

sawman

  I am checking into kilns, I have one within 40 miles of me, that said they could probably get it in for me.
  I am not opposed to buying tools for this as my daughter and son in law are thinking of doing something similar
  when they finish out their basement. Thanks for all the input so far, keep it coming.
'14 LT40 Hydraulic 26 HP koehler ,massey ferguson 2200 forklift, Case IH D40
Wallenstein FX85

Tree Feller

Quote from: sawman on May 12, 2013, 07:11:47 PM
The big question is, what is the best way to tongue and groove the boards for paneling and ceiling planks?   

For that amount of processing, a shaper is the most efficient method. Second would be a 3 hp router in a fixed position, either a cabinet or some sort of table. A power feeder is a real plus with a shaper. Feather boards will help keep the stock oriented properly against the fence/cutters.
Cody

Logmaster LM-1 Sawmill
Kioti CK 30 w/ FEL
Stihl MS-290 Chainsaw
48" Logrite Cant Hook
Well equipped, serious, woodworking shop

Peter Drouin

A&P saw Mill LLC.
45' of Wood Mizer, cutting since 1987.
License NH softwood grader.

Magicman

The only crazy question is an unasked question. 

I have done my entire Cabin Addition project with mostly basic hand tools, but that would not be my recommendation.  If I was doing a "do over", I would have my kiln man to also do the planing and T&G.  This would have relieved me from this time consuming task.

Another problem that was a continual nag for me was not having a building to store lumber and to set up my planer, table & miter saw, sawhorses, etc.  I have been continually moving something.  From the time the subflooring was laid, I have been stepping over and working around stacks of lumber.


 
This was a stack of mostly Cypress lumber that I finally was able to move out of the room for the last time Friday.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

sawman

 I was talking to a fellow yesterday that asked if I had considered ship lap instead of t & g,
any thoughts one way or the other?
We did go out and mark the trees for this project.
Never would have thought 40 some years ago when we were planting them, that we would be using them in a home one day. ;D ;D
'14 LT40 Hydraulic 26 HP koehler ,massey ferguson 2200 forklift, Case IH D40
Wallenstein FX85

Magicman

Ship lap would be OK depending upon where it was used.  I used all T&G because I did not want any possibility of air intrusion.


 


  
I really like "V groove" T&G.  This is Poplar, and it is our ceiling in our sun room.  It has the same Minwax Whitewash Pickling stain that we just used in the Cabin Addition.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

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