Wanting to get into logging, some questions.

[Gary_C]

From what you have said on here, I'd say Jeff is being optimistic on your odds of survival. I'd put your odds at close to zero.

If you are looking for an excuse to buy a $150-200,000 piece of equipment that is really unsuited for production and mainly good for doing non productive work, you are most likely doomed. And you are putting the cart before the horse.

As I said before, this logging is about marketing and production, not about equipment purchasing. So talk about your business plan first.

And don't be misled by people on this forum that talk about buying equipment. Most are already in production and are looking to improve on their operation. They already have the marketing in place.

[Corley5]

Is your dozer going to be equipped with a winch and log arch?  Mills don't like logs that have been drug on the ground especially high grade and veneer.  If you're really serious about this get a skidder and hire your dozer work.  Some mills have their own or contract to have access roads and landings built for the production crew.

[keen]

I agree with Jeff, with the price of the equipment you want you are not going to make it. You would be better off buying a used skidder and going from there. You may have to do some wrenching on it, but to make it in the logging industry that's what you have to do. If you plan to start with no experience you need to get your payments as low as possible.
  I would try to find a logger to work under and get a understanding of the business before you dive in. There is money to be made logging, but it takes time to get the understanding of it. Best of luck to you tho

[Banjo picker]

Price replacing the undercarriage for the proposed dozer....I have replaced mine it cost a pretty penny....If I were gona start logging tomorrow full time ....The dozer would stay home, unless I was building a road..no way I would skid with it...Banjo

[Kemper]

 Take your truck and haul logs, you will make money. It's really that simple, it will also give you a chance to see some established logging operations working. I can't see it working any other way, with the info you have provided. I'm in Western KY.

[WH_Conley]

I am in Eastern Kentucky, not too far from you and some what of the same terrain and markets. We have loggers throwing in the towel almost weekly. These are guys that have been at it for years. The outlook is not getting any better. One of the local guys, decent size operation, is cutting by contract now. Five years ago if you had mention contract logging to him he would have laughed at you.

Like everyone has suggested, get your feet wet first.

[logloper]

For $200K you could buy a good used dozer, processor, skidder and loader. Then you would at least be set up to produce enough logs to cover your 3-4 K payment. You are tying up to much money on 1 piece of iron.

[Woodboogah]

Like many others said you should get your feet wet before jumping into things.  That's an awful big payment every month to worry about.  Fuel and insurance are two more expenses to think about.  Have you thought about looking into a skidder outside of your area and have it hauled to you.  There are some decent machines out there if you look.  Good luck to you

[duckslayingpro]

How did it go at yours cousins operation? Still gonna try to log?

[ancjr]

Jeff is right on the money.

[Ron Scott]

Rocky,

Where in southern West Virginia are you located and whose lands do you intend to log on? Road building for logging access and meeting the BMP standards for the logging operation take a lot of training and experience plus $$$ invested.

[bill m]

Hello all,

I am Rocky from southern WV. Due to the declining coal market, I have found myself laid off from being a professional truck driver (self employed).

I'm curious, how do you get laid off if you are self employed?

[CCC4]

Hire your dozer work and buy a good grapple skidder. You will save lots of money hiring dozer work than maintaining one and buying fuel.

From my experience...and this is just my opinion...family run operations are terrible to work for. Always someone in the "family" not doing as much or shows up late. I imagine that the interior of the family business can get pretty jacked up when it comes to dividing up the money in a business socked to it's ears in debt, just trying to make a showing right out of the gate.

You should do like a couple others have suggested...haul for someone else or log with a crew for a while to see if you like it or can handle the work load. Fitt'n to get hot...heat will will break the will of some people. Banks don't give a crap if you are too hot or too tired to work...they want their money.

[Kemper]

Hello all,

I am Rocky from southern WV. Due to the declining coal market, I have found myself laid off from being a professional truck driver (self employed).

I'm curious, how do you get laid off if you are self employed?

Just an educated guess by reading his post, sounds like the coal market slowed down (declining), so there were to many people hauling the limited amount of coal being produced. Even if he owned his own truck, not enough product to move.

[bill m]

Hello all,

I am Rocky from southern WV. Due to the declining coal market, I have found myself laid off from being a professional truck driver (self employed).

I'm curious, how do you get laid off if you are self employed?

Just an educated guess by reading his post, sounds like the coal market slowed down (declining), so there were to many people hauling the limited amount of coal being produced. Even if he owned his own truck, not enough product to move.

That part is pretty obvious. I'm wondering how you lay yourself off. Never heard of such a thing.

[beenthere]

bill
I think he said "I have found myself laid off.."

Maybe just a figure of speech ;)

[bill m]

Ya, must be.

[PAFaller]

This thread died pretty quick. Im not picking on the OP, as I seem to have bigger dreams than I can financially accomplish at this time, but I find many people look to woods work as a great job and only want others opinions when they agree with their own. Maybe he will follow through with a logging operation and prove us all wrong, and I wish him the best of luck with it. I know some of the comments I and others made were certainly bubble bursters, but Id rather be honest with someone than see them risk a lot so much and lose it all. I hope the pointing out of the reality of his situation and the hardships he would occur with such high rental prices did not offend him and drive him away. There is a lot to learn here for sure.

[gwilson]

Rocky, Have you considered being a contract trucker? i know you said you were in the coal hauling industry and i don't know about west Virginia but there are a lot of contract log trucks in SC that are owner operators and seam to do fairly well. And on logging just keep your options open and try not to get in to deep to quick encase you need to back out. Just some thoughts.   

[Corley5]

We scared him away 

[Jeff]

We scared him away 

That's sort of what I figured. Probably didn't actually want our input, but rather reinforcement for his ideas. I just had to be blunt and honest with my posts. 

I hope he succeeds in what ever path he chooses.

[Forrest277]

Rocky, I do not believe I have ever met, or even know of one successful logger that started out by jumping into the business like it is being proposed in this topic. Not a one.  Every one I know either started working for someone else, and then worked into his own business over time, or started very small, with a little knowledge, a will to work, and a chainsaw and maybe an old paid for truck and skidder. Many times those guys survived for years. Up until they got big enough to start thinking they should borrow money and start making payments on stuff. Then the biggest share of those fail at that point.

I hate to sound like Negative Ned, but if I was a betting man, I'd only give you a one in a hundred odds of making it via the road you are proposing.  Sorry.

I agree _ you gotta start small and build up in any business specially in this economic climate... by way of an example, I spent 30 bucks on a pair of hand shears and after a season cutting hedges I paid cash for my chainsaw, now the saw paid for itself in a couple months and I bought my climbing rig (ropes are also expensive) .... one thing leads to another, but ONLY if what you do is sustainable.

thats my twopennth worth

good luck and dont over stretch to begin with.

its a long road and no turnin back !!

GF
==

[clww]

I wish him success, too, but the facts that were pointed out by many on here whom I consider highly knowledgeable are irrefutable. Also, many points from others dealing with equipment, time, and money are as good as gospel IMHO. ;)
Hopefully, he will return.