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BEFORE PEOPLE SPEND MONEY ON A MILL DO LOTS OF RESREACH!!!!

Started by Larrywoodsaw, May 03, 2013, 01:55:25 AM

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Larrywoodsaw

All I can say is I owned a woodland mill and had many promblems with it. Now I own a wood mizer. For anyone out there who wants to use a mill a fare bit spend the extra money and get a good mill. For me lesson learned THE HARD WAY!!

SwampDonkey

Larry for a lot of mill owners, the volume of lumber sawed does not justify $25,000 + for a mill. I have seen a lot of Woodmizers bought and just sit unused for years after the initial novelty phase was overcome. So for those guys a < $5000 mill is more than adequate for making lumber. Around here it's not easy to saw saw saw to sell lumber, and sawing service jobs are few and far between. If I ever get a mill it will be a well built no frills mill for my own use with no intention of hiring out or any push for production. If I sawed 1000 feet of hardwood for the shop, that would last me years. ;) Again, it comes down to what your going to do and some common sense. I see one local fellow listing butternut for $12 a foot. Ungraded and air dried or green. Good luck to him, hope he sells a boat load. ;)
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Kansas

A couple of things prospective mill owners need to understand is that no matter what kind of mill you buy, plan on working on it. And the more whistles and bells it has, the more you need to be able to work on the electrical system and hydraulics. So you need good tech support. You really ought to take the time to see one or more in action no matter what brand or model you buy. And not from the manufacturer either. From the people who run them. And if they all want to sell their mills to you you might look elsewhere.

scully

The more mills you can look at hands on, the better . Sometimes even a good detailed set of pictures might help . I have seen a few diferant Mfg,s set up at shows etc and there you can compare the details . Depending on price point and size etc, I think most maufacturers make a decent mill , I have seen some that make me scratch my head . The worst thing one can do is see a random mill make a board ,then do an impulse buy !
I bleed orange  .

thecfarm

Larrywoodsaw,sorry to hear of your problems. I looked for years before I brought mine. I really should say dream,but I was still looking.   ;D I went to demos and more demos. This was before computers,so no video to watch. But I would rather see it in person anyways. I brought an OWB the same way.  I would even stop and talk to people about thiers if I saw someone around.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

crtreedude

I own six Baker sawmills, and they get a lot of use. The only thing that has been troublesome has been the bearings on the flywheels, which have not survived very well in our neck of the jungle, but we replaced them all with something local that works very well, and the bearings can be replaced inside, for very little money. The modification cost about 500 dollars for each mill, and since the 20 hp mill was about 10K, I figured I was way ahead.

Aside from that, they have been very good, and worked well.

What I like about the Baker's are they are simple, which means when you live outside of the USA, where parts are a challenge, you can modify.

So, how did I end up here anyway?

5quarter

Larry...Welcome to the FF. Just a friendly reminder: There are forums out there where you can yell and complain about any number of things. This is not one of those forums.
Also, Woodland builds hobby mills, designed for occasional use (perfect for swampdonkey  ;) ) You can get some production out of them, but they will need alot of upgrading and maintenence. a good saw for the $$ for the occasional user, of which there are many, but not so good for the daily sawyer. Your remarks are dead on with respect to doing as much research as you can, including making an honest effort to figure you future needs with regards to sawing. Its not unusual for someone to realize what their needs are only after they have made a purchase. be thankful you didn't go the other way and buy an LT-70  only to learn that most of the time it is just a very expensive lawn ornament.  ;) BTW...How much are you sawing and which WM did you end up with?
What is this leisure time of which you speak?
Blue Harbor Refinishing

drobertson

I am kinda in Kansas's camp on this one,  it took several years to kinda get the lil spasms out of my  mill, but since no issues at all, every piece of equipment will need maintenance, and doing it yourself is the only viable way to make it pay off,  I would say stay patient, and committed to the task, take the good with the bad, and in the end there will be plenty of lumber to stack, sell, or whatever you want to do with it,  daivd
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

Jeff

Quote from: crtreedude on May 03, 2013, 08:47:56 AM

What I like about the Baker's are they are simple, which means when you live outside of the USA, where parts are a challenge, you can modify.

I'm not positive on what mills you have Fred, but they may be the mills that are actually built by Hud-Son for Baker.  :)
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Jeff

Larrywoodsaw, Woodland sawmill are sold and marketed as a hobby mill. They make no claims about being something other than what they are.  I suspect you got exactly what you paid for in the beginning, and in the upgrade.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Larrywoodsaw

I know the woodland mill is a hobby mill and I had bought it at the full intension of that. But even at that a person should not have promblems every time u cut a log. I'm not going to get into bashing woodland about there mill I'm just saying all people should do lots of RESREACH before buying even at a hobby level. Look at the quality and as the saying goes you get what you you pay for. This is a lesson I had learned the hard way and just wanted to share it. And yes I know there is lots of people who buy big expensive mill cut the odd log and they sit there the rest of the time. If someone has the money to do that why not. At least they know when they go to cut a log down the road they have a mill that will do it with no promblems.

SwampDonkey

Quote from: Larrywoodsaw on May 03, 2013, 11:34:28 AM
And yes I know there is lots of people who buy big expensive mill cut the odd log and they sit there the rest of the time. If someone has the money to do that why not.

I have no trouble with that concept either. If there is money to burn, it might as well be a mill, as a hobby tractor. I was raised a bit different, to be more frugal with a hard earned dollar. ;D
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

customsawyer

Two LT70s, Nyle L200 kiln, 4 head Pinheiro planer, 30" double surface Cantek planer, Lucas dedicated slabber, Slabmizer, and enough rolling stock and chainsaws to keep it all running.
www.thecustomsawyer.com

ladylake


 
If you read on here you'll know every mill will need fixing, hopefully not too much.    Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

crtreedude

Quote from: Jeff on May 03, 2013, 11:10:46 AM
Quote from: crtreedude on May 03, 2013, 08:47:56 AM

What I like about the Baker's are they are simple, which means when you live outside of the USA, where parts are a challenge, you can modify.

I'm not positive on what mills you have Fred, but they may be the mills that are actually built by Hud-Son for Baker.  :)

Perhaps, they are workhorses. They tend to hold up better than I do...  :D
So, how did I end up here anyway?

GDinMaine

I will not comment on the quality of any mill.

However I agree, if you don't want to saw a very large stack of lumber on the regular bases the big hydraulic mill is not necessary.  You would get done with the projects and then you would be just looking at the big expensive mill sitting there. 
It's the going that counts not the distance!

WM LT-40HD-D42

drobertson

I think research goes into about everything we do these days, I like the idea of the manual mills just not the brut force, or add ons it takes to allieviate the effort to roll and handle the logs.  Hydraulics are the answer, they just cost, and for the most part this is not one of the issues with break downs(or down time) it is the electronics. The electronics, are and always will be an issue whether one deals with industial, high output production, or as simple as a brand new auto. there will be bugss, and bugs just have to be worked out.  Everyone wants to have the perfect machine at the best and lowest price,  sawmilling is brutal, but rewarding, but it is what it is,  hard work for some, and easier for others, material handling is the key,  david
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

red oaks lumber

the things iv'e noticed about anything being sold is the advertising makes it to be the greatest bestest thing you cant live without. talking with people that own that thing might give different feed back. i always ask for owners with phone #'s to talk with.
the experts think i do things wrong
over 18 million b.f. processed and 7341 happy customers i disagree

Compensation

D4D caterpillar, lt10 Woodmizer, 8x12 solar kiln, enough Stihl's to make my garages smell like their factory :) Ohh and built Ford tough baby!

Jeff

 
Quote from: Compensation on May 03, 2013, 07:27:15 PM
Also if you see one in operation before the purchase, make them put a green log on. When I went to woodmizer they had a log so dry I was afraid it would burst into flames just sitting there  ;D That log took about 5 seconds to cut a 1x8x8, same log wet takes alot longer and could show signs of weakness in the structure. But with there reputation I bought it anyways
I hate to tell you this, but any sawyer with any experience at all knows that green logs saw much better and much faster that dry logs. A very dry log can be a nightmare to saw. the same log green or with a high moisture content will saw worlds easier.  I'm sorry, but it needed to be said for future readers as your statement just simply is without any merit at all. You posted it where everyone could read, so it needed to be addressed in the same arena.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

SwampDonkey

Yes, even a commercial mill (at least where I'm from) will insist on fresh logs. And the commercial mills up here are softwood mills for the most part. And some of them, if they see a pasture grown spruce in the load you will be sent out of the mill yard. ;)
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Larrywoodsaw

Quote from: Jeff on May 03, 2013, 11:15:02 AM
Larrywoodsaw, Woodland sawmill are sold and marketed as a hobby mill. They make no claims about being something other than what they are.  I suspect you got exactly what you paid for in the beginning, and in the upgrade.
well Jeff I knew I was buying a hobby mill when I bought it that's true. My plans where just a hobby sawyer and the price was right. I bought that mill last year and well I had to build a whole new track because the one it came with didn't have a straight piece on it poor metal. T handle broke off poor welding. Bearings are going made in china my head creeps down when I cut and the water tank broke last week. A person buys something new you expect it work with only minor promblems but that's alittle to much for me. So me myself I will pay the extra money and get a better sawmill. This is my personal point of view from my own dealings with that mill.

Compensation

Quote from: Jeff on May 03, 2013, 07:43:37 PM
I hate to tell you this, but any sawyer with any experience at all knows that green logs saw much better and much faster that dry logs. A very dry log can be a nightmare to saw. the same log green or with a high moisture content will saw worlds easier.  I'm sorry, but it needed to be said for future readers as your statement just simply is without any merit at all. You posted it where everyone could read, so it needed to be addressed in the same arena.

Thank Jeff, didn't know that. They had a dry sycamore up there and it cut like butter. When I got done with the red oak I changed the blade and cut a sycamore log and it took forever. Can you explain why it was easy up there with a dry one and took 4 times as long with a wet one?
D4D caterpillar, lt10 Woodmizer, 8x12 solar kiln, enough Stihl's to make my garages smell like their factory :) Ohh and built Ford tough baby!

Jeff

An almost countless number of reasons other than what you suggested. Perhaps you damaged the teeth on the new blade when you was changing it, or opening it up. Perhaps the log you were sawing had a little dirt on it you never noticed and you dulled the blade the instant you set the saw into it. Maybe the log grew on a lean and was full of stress. Maybe you didn't have the band tensioned correctly. You could go on with an infinite number of scenarios, but none of them will be that a dry log cuts easier than a green log. ;)
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

mikeb1079

QuoteCan you explain why it was easy up there with a dry one and took 4 times as long with a wet one?

hmmm.....new blade w/not enough set, new blade not actually sharpened or set properly, new blade hit metal/sand/dirt early in cut, drive belt tension loosening up progressively, blade guide fallen out of adjustment, blade not tracking properly.... :) :) :) did i get em all?  :D :D :D

don't mean to sound like a wise guy but jeff's right, typically green logs saw much much easier than dried out ones.   8)
that's why you must play di drum...to blow the big guys mind!
homebuilt 16hp mill
99 wm superhydraulic w/42hp kubota

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