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Stress in Red Oak (leaners) w pic.

Started by SPIKER, April 26, 2013, 09:33:10 PM

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SPIKER

Hi All:

I had a cluster of 4 Red Oak fall (split out of the center) a couple years back.  Knowing they had a lot of stress built into them so wasn't real concerned with saving them for boards.   after them laying in the way for the last 2 summers I decided to whack em up and drag em out figuring firewood as an end item.   They are surprisingly solid but they do appear to have some spalting going on.   SO now I'm thinking why not ask the experts to see if they would mill them.

Here are the specs.  Most of the logs I cut up into 13', 11' or 9' long.   The smallest I went down to was about 12" (on the narrow end small side ovalish) in some cases the largest are oval in a 30"x24" with off center pith.  I had to cut the BIG ends down to 9' to even be able to pull them out with my 4Klb 4x4 tractor & it pulled the front wheels a few times dragging that bugger.   I have out of these 4 trees about 4 sections each..









Thoughts on HOW the best way to mill them would be, My local Amish Neighbor has a Norwood Sawmill (he loves on other side of the field from my woods) but the logs will be transported around to him on my trailer.   He said costs would be 15cent/bf if I help get them out beside the mill so they can be rolled on manually.

He has had it for about 1 or 2 years now so his experience is just getting going so I might be able to help him out using the FF knowledge.

Thanks
Mark
I'm looking for help all the shrinks have given up on me :o

Magicman

The heartwood is normally solid.  Just slab down to it.


 


 
All of the sapwood had rotted off of these logs, but the heartwood was solid.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

SPIKER

Magicman: any advice on sawing the off center heart?  I figure there is still a lot of stress in there and not sure if the Amish Sawer will know the best way to saw them.

thanks

Mark
I'm looking for help all the shrinks have given up on me :o

LeeB

Center the pith side to side. You will get some bowing. That can be dealt with, depending on what you are using the wood for. Crook will result if trying to center it top to bottom.
'98 LT40HDD/Lombardini, Case 580L, Cat D4C, JD 3032 tractor, JD 5410 tractor, Husky 346, 372 and 562XP's. Stihl MS180 and MS361, 1998 and 2006 3/4 Ton 5.9 Cummins 4x4's, 1989 Dodge D100 w/ 318, and a 1966 Chevy C60 w/ dump bed.

SPIKER

Lee thanks, I'll mention that.

These boards will be primarily just trim around windows or inside the barn when I finish off the living quarters.   Who knows with the spalt I might have some cabinets in the bathroom.

Mark
I'm looking for help all the shrinks have given up on me :o

Magicman

You got your answer from LeeB.  Some defects just have to be lived with.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

millwright

The bowed and crooked boards will still make good firewood.

acrosteve

Quote from: LeeB on April 26, 2013, 11:46:09 PM
Center the pith side to side. You will get some bowing. That can be dealt with, depending on what you are using the wood for. Crook will result if trying to center it top to bottom.

Can you explain that a little more?  Not sure that I understand why one would be different than the other.

Thanks
Timberking B-20

Magicman

This log has a very off center pith.  I have it turned so that the pith is centered above the saw bed.


 
I will rotate the log/cant 90° after opening each face.  The left side will be up for the final and 4th face opening and saw through.  These boards will tend to bow but not crook.  Bow can be dealt with when sticker stacking, but crook (crown) can not.

I will also have to be very careful and watch for stress picking up one or both ends as boards are removed.  The cant will probably have to be rotated 180°, and probably more than once.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

bandmiller2

Spiker,cut those rascals,slab heavy for firewood.You may be surprised how stable the wood is, you won't know until you open them. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

drobertson

frank said it for me, I have cut hundreds of the same,  it turned out very stable, not the high quality but great for utility use,  david
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

SPIKER

I tossed 4 of the butt log onto the trailer along with a Red Elm that was ~20" small end on the 1st log and 18 on the 2nd log (both 11' long.)   They have now sat a while on the trailer as the week I was taking them to my Amish Neighbor sawyer his brother's house burnt down. :-[ :o   They been working on it in all their free time and have built about 4 pole barns in the mean time while I been driving 100miles round trip daily for schooling...   Ive got to get them over as ends are checking some now with air blowing around them due to them up in air and no end sealer as I was planning on having them sawed up right off.   ::)

Mark
I'm looking for help all the shrinks have given up on me :o

drobertson

Sounds like the plan to me, I would not be all that concerned with the end seal, just figure a few inches to be removed when squaring up to length,  you should be pleased with the outcome,   david
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

SPIKER

They are all cut a good foot and half LONG for that reason all cut ~9'6"+ to 15'.   My 4800 LB Tractor & Loader could not pick up the big butt log which was bit over 9' on the 3PT forks.   I Chained it and used the FEL to pick the rear tires off the ground  :D :o.   SO that Log is still setting in the woods  :-\   I have all week off so going to try and get them drug up to the Amish mill for slicing up...  They have been down for 4 or so years but 60% of bark is still solidly attached.   When I bucked them up the water almost ran out of both sides of the log.  On the bottom butt log it did run out but there was no "Green" to them.

Mark
I'm looking for help all the shrinks have given up on me :o

bandmiller2

Mark,unless your always going to have a heavy implement on the back of your tractor its good form to set the pressure bypass on your loader to release just before the rear wheels will catch air. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

SPIKER

First load was dropped off today, finally got a hold of them and tractored them over & unloaded them.   My clutch is shot though on my tractor and it popped out of gear on me going downhill on the loaded trip over. :( :o   Had to drop the blade on the tar/chip road so it got a bit graded flatter in the downhill stretch :(   It is just about 3 miles round trip over and back so took me about 2 hrs start to finish (included unhooking the rotary mower and hooking up the box blade & trailer) & unbinding and unloading and drive back.   I came back dropped the trailer by the log pile and cleaned out the lean too prepping it for the wood to sticker/stack it up.   

   Tomorrow load up trailer and make a 2nd trip but think I'll truck over the logs and drop the trailer and return with the empty tractor to unload...   Will be a bit more work but the loaded trailer is a bit too much for my CUT.   

He had a pile of nice pine (not sure where they came from) as there were some dozen logs & couple were probably 30"+ logs in there.

Mark
I'm looking for help all the shrinks have given up on me :o

drobertson

that don't sound like too much fun, but at least you got em over there,  david
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

SPIKER

Well not a total wasted day today, got home yesterday and woman said Brakes quit working in her car...    :-[ ???   So I took it out to the farm to check that out in AM, worked on car till noon and went to woods for trees.

Cut one Black Cherry which had main trunk still standing but top came out a year or so back.   It was standing on the top of the creek bank and I wanted to drop it up-hill so I could pull it up and around into the upper woods/field.    Well like everything else lately it didnt go the correct way...    >:(   Couldn't find my wedges and grabbed my prybar figuring it would work in a pinch.  When I did my back cut it started to pinch the saw some so I pulled it out in time.   Stuck in my big pry bar and gave it a push which sent it the RIGHT WAY but the bottom stump I was prying on popped loose and it went the OTHER WAY :o :-[.   It fell down into the creek (mostly dry other than pools big enough for mosquitoes to break like crazy in... >:(   Dang it anyhow now I have a 30 foot of Black Cherry Log laying on the bank and end down into the creek..   

I loaded everything up in tractor and headed over to the big maple that top came out same time the cherry did.    Get over there and look at it up close and at my saw, Nope can't cut it Maple is probably 4'+ and my saw is not big enough...    I gave up on that as I was already batting away Skeeters by the 100's already...   So I headed down to the creek (which had 3 dead falls crossing it that had to be cut out so I could skid out the Cherry Log.)   By the time I got to the Cherry I was feeling light headed from the blood donations I had done today, (AM at the Doc Office) and now the skeeters... :-X :)   Hooked up and off I went dragging the log all 30+ feet of it to my bridge area.   unhooked and pushed half log around so I can drive around and now drag log on the bridge.   Pulled it across the creek bed and into the shaded area to buck it up into 2ea 13' logs and whacked the split top off for firewood.   The top small end was 14" my 18" saw barely made it thru the middle of the log.   Got those loaded onto the trailer for MAYBE tomorrow drop off, went by the mill but still sawing the big wack of pines.   

Mark
I'm looking for help all the shrinks have given up on me :o

SPIKER

Hey Guys:

Got the load of lumber back today from the Amish Mill, $140 poorer but not bad price, no blade damage and mostly all cut well they said.

2nd Load (two more logs were added from a Red Elm that was 22" in middle of 19' log where I split it as tractor could not drag it, not shown.)



Center of one of the Red Elms that I split in half this one was two 11'6" logs out of it this is the center/middle of the butt log end, the butt was 24"




Behind the truck in yard, trailer is 18'+2dove tail and 8'wide.


Top View

Edge view of some of the Red Oak with some Spalt showing.


Mark
I'm looking for help all the shrinks have given up on me :o

drobertson

this is more better!  it all is work, and pretty much guaranteed of this,  david
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

Magicman

I think that is a lot of lumber for $140.   :)
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

SPIKER

Most of the Slippery Elm was cut 1.5" for use on my Bridge to re-deck it, the red Oak and Cherry 1" .

I may make me a HD Bench with some of the Slippery Elm as there are a good number of 3~4" boards that wont work for the deck as I want 8" plus wide for that.   

The Oak and Cherry have no planned use for now however I'm sure it will go somewhere real nice.

I'll get a better idea to the BF when unloading & sticker it all up, looking at the piles on the trailer I can't tell how much it really is there..
Mark
I'm looking for help all the shrinks have given up on me :o

nk14zp

Belsaw 36/18 duplex mill.
Belsaw 802 edger.
http://belsawsawmills.freeforums.org/

mesquite buckeye

I love red elm. Pretty stuff and awful nice for structural stuff. More better for trim and furniture. ;D
Manage 80 acre tree farm in central Missouri and Mesquite timber and about a gozillion saguaros in Arizona.

SPIKER

Hey All:

UPDATE got the stuff all off trailer and stacked to dry.  Well there are a dozen Read Oak 1"x 8~13" wide by 9~11' long laying flat inside barn I ran out of sticker material.   will get those stickered inside barn too much work to move em back out...  I have a bunch more pics but didnt wante to wast a lot of Forum Storage space.


This is the start all free & clear Black Cherry 1'x 11~13" x ~15'   (4 boards = 4 feet wide stickered :D )



This is mostly all 1" BELOW the layer of BIG OLE ELM boards them suckers are heavy, 4 of them are 4' across & the one is 8" wide...



Some purple and spalt inside the Elm pics just dont do the wood justice.   used flip phone cell phone.


Some of the Big Elm boards 1/5" thick, I see a BIG TABLE in the Elm Table thread now I'm gonna make one sometime too! 

couple close up pics of the grain in the elm



Hope you all like the photos...

Mark
I'm looking for help all the shrinks have given up on me :o

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