Sourdough?

[OlJarhead]

So who makes bread?

This week my weight loss is going to take a back seat (sorry self)! My dad is here for the week and since he and I both make bread we've been working up some delicious French Bread and Sourdough Bread...here is the latest:



This bread is a 'no knead' bread made from my dad's culture, all-purpose flour, non-iodized sea salt and the Jim Lahey method of baking (cast iron pot in the oven at 475 for 30 mins then remove lid for 15 mins) and it's too darn good!

[Mooseherder]

I'm a sucker for bread and that looks real good.

[Axe Handle Hound]

That is a fine looking loaf of bread and it's screaming for some homemade jam if you ask me.   

[petefrom bearswamp]

Dang that looks Delicious.
Can just taste it with a bit of butter on a fresh slice.
Made a lot of sourdough in the 70's but not any more.

[Magicman]

Wow, that is some fine looking bread baking.   

[Chris Burchfield]

My first introduction was San Francisco sourdough bread.  I have an aunt who flew out of Los Angeles or San Francisco w/ American airlines.  She would bring in from the San Francisco harbor area Sour Dough Bread.  It is the only area in the United States where the bacteria sours the dough.  So awesome!  Sharp cheddar cheeze, Merlot or adult beverage.  Night, night!

[LeeB]

I started some starter a couple of weeks ago and have been making bread almost every day since. Didn't make any today. Made 3 loaves of garlic and cheddar yesterday. Only one left. Bread really isn't that hard to make. Sure is good right out of the oven with lots of butter.

[OlJarhead]

Thanks all!

My Dad and I both have made bread for years and are always trying to perfect the Artisan loaf   This method is in my opinion the best of all!  use a 5 or 6 quart cast iron pot (dutch oven) and a 475 degree oven and you'll love it!

[OlJarhead]

This is my 'No Knead' bread that I got from the Jim Lahey book on making artisan breads.  It's too easy to make and tastes awesome

This is a 1/3rd whole wheat and the loaf is about 1 1/2 lbs,  It gets less rise in the dutch oven then the all white breads do but it makes a perfect crumb and crust.

[OlJarhead]

http://www.squidoo.com/no-kneading-sourdough-bread
My dad's lens on making his easy sourdough for those interested...I'm trying a similar recipe out now.  Got kids coming tonight for a week so I'm using that as an excuse! lol

[LeeB]

I experimented a little today and tried some with black olives in it. It was ok,, but not great. I also added some whole grain stuff kinda like granola to it. One loaf with olives and one without. The loaf without was pretty good.

[OlJarhead]

Maybe too much water with the olives?  My dad does peppers and olives from time to time.

I did the squido recipe (posted above) more or less today as a test on making bread with sourdough with less proofing, more culture and less stringent adherence to the typical recipe.  In this case I used 1 cup of culture, 2 hours of proofing/rising and baked at 475 inside the dutch oven (30 minutes with lid, 18 minutes without).

Rose nicely (no pic) and felt perfect.  Smelled great too but I didn't crack that loaf as we have another one still uneaten!

[LeeB]

Yep, a little excess moisture from the olives. I had to put it back in to finish off. It just wasn't as good as I wanted it to be.

[pappy19]

Do you all use package yeast to make your starter?  Have you ever tried the potato water starter? My bunch doesn't allow me to make much bread, they want me to use all my starter for pancakes. I guess I'll have to get a bigger crock.

Pap

[LeeB]

I've used both. I used some yeast to get this latest batch going. Just put two loaves in to proof. Should be ready to bake in a couple of hours.

[OlJarhead]

I'm using a culture my dad brought for me.  One day I might catch my own

[Norm]

Here's where I get my sourdough cultures from.

http://sourdo.com/

[OlJarhead]

Going to try sourdough Pizza tonight   and should be cracking a new loaf I made using an overnight proof and then a second proof to get more intense flavor.  I've been trying to get the most flavor I can out of my sourdough.


This is my latest loaf.


I find I cannot make this kind of loaf with a truly chewy crust and perfect sourdough crumb unless I use a dutch oven.  My dad does 'ok' with water in the oven and a stone but the dutch oven method beats all others!

[LeeB]

How moist, or dry, is your dough? I can't seem to get a nice round like that. Mine always comes out somewhat flat.

[OlJarhead]

This dough is a mix but is mostly white flour so it's rise will be pretty good compared to a wheat based dough.

Moisture/hydration is in the 65% range so the dough is fairly tacky before kneading it with flour to get it so I can handle it without pulling dough off the ball.  Then I roll it in an oiled bowl and cover with plastic wrap and a towel to rise/proof.

The dough ball is VERY light and airy when it's first proof is done (which may be the only proof depending on how sour I want it) and gets punched down (gently) for a second rise/proofing and remains in an oiled bowl so it can easily be removed.

This loaf I sliced when it was in my hand just before placing in the dutch oven -- which is a key ingredient to getting such an awesome loaf.

The dutch oven (or a 4 1/2 - 6 quart covered stoneware/casserole etc pot) and temp are also key.  I bake at 475 degrees and heat the oven with the pot in it, then take out the pre-heated pot and place the dough inside it, cover and place in the oven for 30 minutes.  Remove the lid after 30 minutes and then bake an additional 15 minutes (15-30 depending on the oven and desired crust but I find in my oven 15 is about max).

The dutch oven keeps all the moisture in while baking which produces the perfect crumb and the heat produces the perfect crust

[Furu]

Sourdough starters/sponges are easy to make.  Some use flour and water alone but the three I have started were with milk and flour.  That is all; well combined with the bacteria that you get from the air around you.  Using yeast is cheating.  My current sourdough sponge was started in May 1985 and has been active ever since.  The older they are the more character they have.  I had two previous starters/sponges but moving to Europe and back caused each to be abandoned at the time of the move.  They were only 5 and 3 years old so they did not have near the character my current one does (nearly 28 years).  Never use your entire sponge at one time.  Add to it and take away equal amounts thus you merely refresh and replenish it.

[OlJarhead]

I tend to add too much to it -- my Dad told me that you needed to feed it twice daily if it wasn't dormant in the fridge so if I'm making bread all week I'm adding a cup of flour each day (and water)....and using 1/2 to 1 cup a day.

I plan to put the crock in the fridge today though so it will be there for next time.

[OlJarhead]

Finally cracked this loaf


Very nice crumb


This is more or less the same bread my dad has on his squido lens (posted above)...very little kneading.

[beenthere]

The looks of that bread is making me VERY hungry. 

[sawguy21]

Fresh sourdough still warm from the oven with butter. YEAH!!! ;D

[OlJarhead]

Thanks Beenthere!  And it is awesome :D  Best served warm with butter of course but we love it for sandwiches and pretty much any other purpose :D

Made pizza with the left over starter tonight -- so good!  Use the Starter to make your dough (1 1/2 cups starter to 1 1/2 cups of flour with a little salt (1tsp) and a tablespoon of olive oil and let me tell you!  So good :D

[Weekend_Sawyer]

How long can you store your starter and how do you store it?
Refrigerator or freezer?

I'm thinkin I have to try this!

Jon

[OlJarhead]

I'm told up to 4 or 5 months in the fridge but I haven't let mine sit that long.

I use a quart jar and wax paper with a few holes poked in it with a rubber band holding it on as my 'crock' to store the culture.  Then I take it out when I want to make bread, warm it up and feed it etc.

[pesaventoc]

If you have a starter that you want to keep for a backup in case you lose your working batch, pour a thin layer on a cookie sheet, aluminum foil or parchment paper.Let it dry brittle hard and break into pieces. Store in a jar or freezer bag on a shelf or in a freezer. It will keep indefinitely. A real comfort when you throw away your prize heirloom 50 year old starter by accident. Travels well ,too. Just add some back to a little flour and water and the strain renews itself.

[pappy19]

Very neat tip, thanks for the post, I'll remember that one.

Pap

[Norm]

Good idea, thanks for the tip!

Great looking bread, makes my mouth water just looking at it.

[D L Bahler]

I learned a lot about making bread in the Swiss Alps. Family is from there, and went there last summer to master cheesemaking.

They make some amazing bread.

The 'country bread' is a sourdough made in several stages. They have their starter, and leaven the lump with it then let it thoroughly ferment. They might leaven it in the afternoon or evening, then bake it the next day.

The bread itself is made with 'Weismehl' or literally white meal. A misleading name, what they use is a blend of wheats and barley. The barley is regionally significant, they are high in the mountains and in the old days barley was what they had. Can't grow wheat up there. I love barley bread, the blend they use has a great depth of flavor.

If you want to make starter, you can get yeast by soaking raw grains in water overnight, maybe add a small amount of sugar to it.

I make my starters from whatever is handy. If you want a good acidifying lactic acid bacteria, the best thing I have found to do is to take the whey off of homemade sauerkraut. If you use this and a long ferment, your bread will have just a little bit of a twang to it. Just don't eat too much of the starter if you do, it will give you a soar throat!

I've also used cheese scraping, cheese rind scrapings, stale bread, and such to make starters.

Its important for these starters to reinforce the bacteria and yeast from time to time tho, otherwise they will mutate or become displaced by bad bugs. Ya, I deal with bacteria all the time as a cheesemaker. 

[loggah]

My wife makes a lot of sourdough bread, pizza dough, pancakes, she has the sourdough Jack cook book , which is worth owning just to read Jacks storys,!! ;D ;D most of her cooking she uses King Arthur flower made in Vermont.I will say it doesn't help me with trying to keep my weight down !! :embarassed: :embarassed:she has some pictures,somewhere on her computer, she is baking a couple loaves as i type this. ;D heres a picture of regular sourdough bread,a loaf of cinnamon swirl,and a few sourdough sub rolls!! Don

[OlJarhead]

Very nice!

How does she do the rolls?

[OlJarhead]

Oh the smell of baking sourdough!!!!!

Good thing I rode 11 miles today!  Now I'm going to have to try a piece of this bread....

[loggah]

Hi ...  this is Mrs. Loggah ... 

When I make sourdough sub rolls, I let the dough rise as usual. I turn it out and cut it in half, then I cut each half into three or four equal sections (the size depends on how large I want the rolls to be).

I pat or roll each section into a rectangle, then roll them up jelly roll style, starting on a long edge. I turn the ends in and pinch the seam closed.

I place them on a greased baking sheet, seam side down, with sides touching slightly. I let them rise until double, slash the tops diagonally a few times with a sharp knife, then bake at 350° about 20 - 25 minutes (until an instant thermometer inserted in center reaches 190°).  Remove to a rack, brush with melted butter, then cool.

I sometimes make hamburger or hotdog rolls, too, in the same way, just using smaller sections of dough.

[OlJarhead]

Thanks for the post   Much like how I do french bread except I use a french bread pan (two sides)...I'll have to try this.

[OlJarhead]

Bread as art?  Artisan anyway ;)

I'm sorry if all these pics are making you hungry!  I just can't help it because I LOVE Sourdough bread and making it!


This is what happens when I don't have any milling to talk about!


I'm thinking I may have to walk and ride tomorrow!!!

[loggah]

If Cheryl made as much bread as i like, i would have to go for a "ROLL" ,no pun intended ! ;D Don

[Norm]

Hi ...  this is Mrs. Loggah ... 

When I make sourdough sub rolls, I let the dough rise as usual. I turn it out and cut it in half, then I cut each half into three or four equal sections (the size depends on how large I want the rolls to be).

I pat or roll each section into a rectangle, then roll them up jelly roll style, starting on a long edge. I turn the ends in and pinch the seam closed.

I place them on a greased baking sheet, seam side down, with sides touching slightly. I let them rise until double, slash the tops diagonally a few times with a sharp knife, then bake at 350° about 20 - 25 minutes (until an instant thermometer inserted in center reaches 190°).  Remove to a rack, brush with melted butter, then cool.

I sometimes make hamburger or hotdog rolls, too, in the same way, just using smaller sections of dough.

Thank you Mrs Loggah!

I make a decent pizza dough with starter but hamburger and hotdog rolls are not any where near what my mom would make. Your's  sound very good, thanks for the help. 

[LeeB]

Should sourdough actually be sour? My starter has turned truly sour. I think I need to start over.

[240b]

Ok, so the daughter wants to do some baking,( she 7.) We have done cookies and brownies. Time to move up to the big league, bread.  So where do I look for ideas, the FF of course. I think this will fit the bill. The only thing I have concerns about are; we are living at 7900' asl.  We have to modify just about every reciepe which we bake. Any ideas on baking bread at this alt.?

[OlJarhead]

http://highaltitudecooking.blogspot.com/2007/11/high-altitude-bread-baking.html


Looks like you just need less yeast but I didn't read the entire thing.

[240b]

I'll have to look at that site.  Seems every one around here has there own solution to this issue thanks. We will see how this turns out.

[pesaventoc]

If you really want to capture the natural yeast go to the source. While visiting my mom(84yo), I came upon wild scuppernongs falling on the road. My mind clicked. yeast!!! Took them back home. Put them in a muslim bag, added flour and water, crushed the bag,and waited. Three days and bubbles formed. Removed the bag and started to feed.  Twelve years later my wife still makes sourdough every Friday night.I,m a man blessed.She once lost her starter and cried till I told her that I had dried some for this occasion(previous post).Grapes and olives have fed man for thousands of years. Oh we owe the old ones.