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026 Pro Cutting Out w Brake

Started by logbutcher, April 20, 2004, 07:39:49 PM

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Minnesota_boy

When the brake is on, it puts a side load on the crankshaft.  When it is released, that load is suddenly no longer there.  I'd be looking for a seal leak or a crankshaft bearing that has too much play that makes the seal leak.
I eat a high-fiber diet.  Lots of sawdust!

tony_marks

  i still cant sell myself on starting a saw with brake on..
 thats a nice safty feature while using the saw ,,but as ive stated ,,most of mine dont even want to start,, with brake engaged..jmo
 ps been doing it this way since long before they had brakes onum..i mite add ,,u new fellas at this game need to follow the suggested method of cranking the things.. dont want noboidy getting hurt because of something i said..

Mark M

I'm kinda like you Tony, I just don't like to hear it start up under full load, even if it is only for a second. The only time I use my brake is when I'm walking through the woods (which is almost never cause we don't have any trees)! :o I also use it if I'm climbing over something or if there is a chance I could fall.

Mark

logbutcher

Back to the naughty 026 problems. Been out of town on the company's business.

Incog's analysis and direction are on the money---it stalls/cuts out/dies only after warming up for a few WOT cuts in all of your suggested positions. Then hard starting at idle, I need to use the cold start switch position, not the full choke cold start.
Frankly, the impulse hose, and the bearings are beyond my skills (got to know what you cannot do). How would I begin to check those items out without a manual or solid 2-stroke chainsaw experience? Anything simple ?  ::)
The mystery is that the 026 runs perfectly cutting at WOT.
Guess it will need to be brought to the Stihl man. Maybe spanked  8).

Chain brake thing: after many years of not bothering to use it, after many slips/falls/stumbles/slices with saws idling, the brake on technique makes sense. In fact Stihl and Husky strongly recommend the use at all times when not cutting. It is engineered for normal use, they say. Or, shut the saw down when moving. No I'm not a "new" guy, just an old hacker that was educated by the pros in the Game of Logging training. I go back to firing range days in OCS stuff (insert violins here) :o. Those DI's were tough in all ways with handling firearms, ordinance, explosives. It took us hotshots years to figure out that they were correct.
Yet, there are far fewer accidents and deaths from handling firearms and ordinance (crimes excluded) than chainsaws.
So, I now use ALL of the CPL training techniques all of the time (well, Pinocchio). :o
Thanks all !!!!!!!!

Kevin

What's WOT, wide open throttle?
If that's the case I would be looking at an air leak.
Crankcase or intake manifold.

oldsaw-addict

Possibly crankshaft seal at the clutch side bearing is leaking, may be the intake manifold or perhaps the crankcase/cylinder base is not sealed tightly and is sucking air in. there is a trick to find the leak, I use WD40, spray it on the crank seal with the engine running if you get better performance you've found the leak, try checking the cylinder base screws that hold the cyl to crankcase, they may be loose, and make sure the intake  boot/manifold is not loose either. any one or combonation of things from the list above can cause the problems you've described. try it out and see, I'd like to know how it goes.
Let there be saws for all mankind!

logbutcher

Can't figure out the "quote" thing here. But--
O-A: Nice idea w the WD40. Also tightening bolts/screws IS something I can do  :o  . Without a schematic of the saw where are those bolts and exactly where are the crankshaft seals, intake boot, manifold ? I'll try to get a schematic from the dealer. Maybe one of you could use your skills in the forum to show a diagram or illustration.
BTW: how do you do the "quote" thing ?
Sorry Kevin, "WOT" is "wide open throttle".
Got to stop using these TLA's (Three Letter Acronyms). With all the tech terms here, I've got to have some secret words ;D.
THX ALL !!   8)
PS Spring has come --over 60 F today...then the black flies (the real Maine state bird) . They'll enter our lives when moving water reaches 48 F.

oldsaw-addict

The cylinder bolts are located on the 4 corners of the cylinder, if you take the top cover which is plastic off, there should be 2 or 4 holes that go all the way down to the base of the cylinder, they are the ones you need to check, the screws I mentioned earlier are at the bottom of those holes, they're on the very outside edge of the cylinder and should be fairly easy to check. Intake manifolds and carb boots are to the best of my knowledge the same thing, one is a rubber boot that connects the carb to the engine, the other is a plastic or metal piece that does the same thing, they are in between the carb and the cylinder. if you have a rubber boot, check for holes, rips, and tears in it, if there are any of the above issues with the boot, replace it. Crankshaft seals are on the outside of the bearings which are pressed into the crankcase, you'll have to remove the drive sprocket and clutch assembly to check the clutch side seal. If you need further clarification I'll help as best I can.
Let there be saws for all mankind!

oldsaw-addict

Oh  yeah I forgot to mention, I use WD40 for the leak testing because it is a lubricant and will burn in the cylinder. Just be VERY careful when you spray the WD40 at the seals, if you spray the muffler you may get a mini bonfire/flamethrower. :D
Let there be saws for all mankind!

Kevin


jokers

QuoteI'm prettier than either Rocky or Jokers,.......

Aye, that you are! I`ll bet you would have been popular on a six month cruise.  :D  My evil twin and I have to be satisfied with simply being vile and repulsive.

Russ

incognitive

QuoteMy evil twin and I have to be satisfied with simply being vile and repulsive.

Russ

I have to find a way to do that without getting booted!

logbutcher

Update on the 026 saga.
The Stihl tech that sold me the saw says that the 026/260 is not "meant to be idled or stopped with the brake on."   That that model line is high compression and needs to run and not idled with or without the brake. That the brake will over heat the engine if used for any amount of time.
And, "...that since the saw is fairly new, it needs to be broken in for it to 'loosen up' " .
For you full time users, do any of you use the brake in normal use : starting, moving with the saw running, or throwing brush w it running  ?
The Stihl guy says that if I'm stopping for more than 30 seconds, to shut it down and re-start. Possible, but I've gotten used to moving even to the other side of a tree w the chain brake on.
Do I need to change my work habits with the 026 that I did w the old, reliable 028 ?  The 028 would sit for 5 minutes, sometimes more w the brake on with no problems.
Let's hear some more experienced options.
The leak checks continue anyhow with all of your advice.

Kevin

Is it just stalling with the brake engaged or at idle without the brake as well?

incognitive

I'd say that either we, or he didn't get enough information, or that he's blowing smoke up your behind.  If the saw is an "026 Pro with a high / low adjustable carb" as you originally said, how is it so new it's not loosened up yet?  Have you put a couple gallons of fuel through it?  If so, it's there.  If not, it should still idle through a whole tank of gas if it's not got any leaks or mis-adjustment.

The only way I can see a brake heating the engine is if the clutch is attempting engagement and that clutch drum would be smokin'.

I don't habitually use my brake but I do use it some and on neither my 036 or 066 have I ever had a lick of problem.  I'd as soon shut the saw off if I'm traveling through the woods as I'd rather have the chain freewheel as it snags on stuff.  I'd also like it to spin out of the way rather than be stationary in the event I might stumble onto it or something.

At any rate, 30 seconds idling is just too short a time to cause any kind of problem on a healthy saw.

Tell us a little more about how you came to own that saw.


oldsaw-addict

I never have had a saw that has problems running with the chainbrake on, at idle that is. I'm just getting into the habit of setting the brake when I set the saw down so I'm on the right foot now, getting safer now.
Let there be saws for all mankind!

jokers

Logbutcher,

I have to agree with Incognitive(just don`t tell him) that the "tech" you saw, made up that whole bit about not being broken in and the 026 not being able to idle because of high compression. I can`t even begine to imagine the hours that some of my 026`s have idled, even with the brake on. I even observed my dad with a brand new 260Pro idle through about a tank of gas when he was chipping and then got sidetracked and left the saw running on the ground. What your tech said, just ain`t so!

I`d like to have your saw here to find out what`s really wrong with it.

If someone can tell me how to do it, I will post an 026 workshop manual pdf. here to help you out. You`re obviously on your own when it comes to local service.

Russ

Rocky_J

Quote.... What your tech said, just ain`t so!
....
If someone can tell me how to do it, I will post an 026 workshop manual pdf. here to help you out. You`re obviously on your own when it comes to local service.
This last sentence is exactly why I finally decided to try a Husky after buying Stihls all my life. I have absolutely no local Husky dealers, but it isn't like the local Stihl dealers are much better. I haven't paid a shop to fix a saw for me in 8 years and don't plan on doing so anytime in the future. Stihl parts are expensive locally, Husky parts are cheap online but I have to pay shipping. Price is a wash but with Husky I get the stuff delivered to my door.

Almost all the Stihl techs I've met will make up stuff in order to sound like they know what they are talking about. The more I learned about saws, the more I realized how little most shop mechanics know. There are a few good ones but most are as incompetent as most 'tree services'.

logbutcher

We're on the same page: idling saws w or wo brake are normal.
Generous  8)  of Russ to offer the workshop manual !!. Is there a site for them ? Downloading in .pdf is long, but doable w your scanner. Maybe 1/2 six pack.
Must be an easier way. ???
Still can't figure out exactly what and where the pulse hose is, the crankcase seals (to test leakage w WD-40). Anyone have schematic diagrams  to put in a post ?
Ah, the ignorance of it all  ;D ;D   .
What a forum............!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Ianab

Hi Log

I'm not a chainsaw expert.. but simple explanations I can do
On one side of your saw you have the recoil starter cord, on the other you have the clutch and chain sprocket. These are on each end of the crankshaft. On each end of the crankshaft inside these bits are the bearings and seals. If these seals are worn out then air can leak into the crankcase, bypassing the carby and totally mucking up the idle settings. I guess that spraying some wd40 on the seals would stop them leaking air temporarily and be usefull for faultfinding. I'm sure the others will pull me up if this is wrong  ;)

Ian
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

Minnesota_boy

Ian,
The WD-40 is a nice light flamablle oil that can be sucked in past leaking seals.  This additional flamable liquid will cause the saw engine to speed up if the seal is leaking.

Logbutcher,
On many saw engines, the impulse line is built into the carburetor mount.  There is no impulse line to find.
I eat a high-fiber diet.  Lots of sawdust!

Ianab

Thanks Minnesota

Either way, spraying wd40 on the seals will have no effect if they are good. If you spray and something changes.. then the seals are leaking.

A usefull test

Ian
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

incognitive

Here's a small part of page 11 from the 026 parts PDF.  Note item 23.


The hose attaches to the carburetor mount and to a nipple near the cylinder base.  It will be to the clutch side and a little below the intake boot.  The tests I was describing earlier were to determine if the stumble upon brake disengagement would disappear if there were no relative movement between the engine and handles.  I was thinking that by grabbing the brake release, the engine was moving back to the handle far enough to flex the impulse hose, thus opening a crack (or maybe one in the intake boot ["manifold" in the documentation]).  I don't think crank seals would affect what you're describing if it only happens when changing the brake status.

So logbutcher, did you buy a rebuilt saw from this guy or what?  If so, it's possible the top end's still tight and needs broke-in while the bottom end's (too?) loose, and/or rubber parts need replacement.  Let us know.


jokers

The impulse hose actually attaches to a nipple on the carb in the case of the 026.

Nice pic G but why so stingy? LOL!

Russ

incognitive


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