A thought in conjunction with my milling.

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

My Dad has bought a 60 x 80 steel building. We plan to construct it closer to the highway to give FULL vision of the milling operation. The 32 x 36 building I am in now will be used for our tractor shed and planters, etc.

I will have a lot more room for stack and stickering more sizes of lumber and being able to have a place to air dry my bench and table slabs.

I really would like to get into the "planing" business. Not only being able to plane my high dollar lumber to be sold but I can plan other woodworkers lumber they buy else where.


#1. Is there are market for a planing service? I think there is. I know markets are different but I think I would be making a profitable move to provide this service. I have been asked this question a lot of times......"Do you plane lumber?"  :D I know....I've probably answered my own question but I was wondering if any of you guys have a planing service and how it was going.

#2. What would be a good planer with edger to buy? Name brand please.

This would be a new venture for me and I would have someone doing the planing work for me. I'll be milling.

Thanks Ya'll! 

[Delawhere Jack]

Be sure to get a deposit large enough to cover the cost of a new set of knives whenever you mill someone elses lumber. There is a reason many lumber yards won't mill anything but new wood from their own inventory......(Got iron?)

[Magicman]

Do you have a kiln? 

[Peter Drouin]

Good old Dad , what would you with out him :D :D :D :D :D
I have had some customers want some planing too, not to much but some , I found a 24" one that I might buy, just another thing, but there are mills out there that have all kinds of things that are close :D,
I think a kiln would be better, Im putting in a small one
I mean how far do you want to go with the wood,
good luck with what ever you do

[Delawhere Jack]

If you can find an old Power-Matic from the 1950's or 60's grab it.

[Busy Beaver Lumber]

Hey would Dad like to adopt another son, because I could use a nice big building like that?

I have made some decent money planing boards for others and certainly do not have a huge industrial machine. I have made even more money planing craft size boards as opposed to 8 foot long boards. Seems like the smaller boards sell about as quick as i produce them. People like them because they fit in the trunk of the car and are easier to work with for craft projects. One guy in particular is a big scroll saw user and he buys about 200 pieces of 1/4 inch thick or thinner boards from me a year to support his hobby

One suggestion i would make is go with a spiral cutter head. Good work for a rainy day or during the cold winter months. The spiral heads cut very nice and if you do hit a foreign object, you just turn the damaged cutter 90 degrees and get back to work rather than having to remove and send a straight blade for sharpening every time it gets a nick in it.

But I have to agree with the others, If i had the space for a kiln, i would invest the money in that before i invested in a planer. In my case, I had no room for a kiln, so planer was next best investment, especially since I use a lot of our own wood in the production of our wood craft items.

[Larry]

When I was in north Missouri  I custom planed and straight line ripped for customers that bought lumber from me.  I had two kilns and would guess I dressed a fourth of the lumber that came out of them. 

Customers living in town with a hobby shop don't mind planing 50 board foot, but when it comes to 2 or 300 foot for a big project they have a sawdust disposal problem.  I was never set up right to do the work in an efficient manner.  The customer deserves a fair price and the owner needs to make money.  I think you have a great idea.

For machinery I would be looking for old and heavy made in the USA machines.  Powermatic,  Oliver, planers, Mattison, and Diehl straight line rips are a few but not all.  Insist on seeing it run unless you want a restoration project.  Your going to want speed to give your customer value and make $$$'s.  Feed rates of 30 fpm or faster are the key.  You also don't want a board sticking in the planer cause its just a trifle too thick.  Both of those exclude most of the planers being sold today.

[Tree Feller]

Take a look at Woodmaster planers. They also rip, sand and make custom molding.

http://www.woodmastertools.com/725

[WoodenHead]

I offer planing services to those who buy my lumber.  That has been both a blessing and a curse.  It can be a profitable means to increase the value of your wood.  Around here a lot of cottagers want 1 x 6 tongue and groove pine or cedar and woodworkers want S4S when it comes to hardwood.  On the other hand it can be a real pain when you have numerous requests to plane 1, 2, 3, or 4 sides of one six foot board and their jaw drops when you tell them it will cost $50 (minimum one hour charge).  Sometimes I do it because the S4S knives are still setup in the machine (Logosol PH260 - good machine), but changing from T&G knives (and back), lets say, costs a lot of time.  I'm still trying to find the balance between charging enough for the service and pricing myself out of the market.

The other thing to consider is whether or not you have help.  I work alone, so I have to take it slow through the machine.  Sometimes I ask my eight year old son to help, but he's not quite big enough for the 1 x 10 yet  ;)

I concur with the recommendation of a spiral head if you plan on just surfacing.  A good machine for surfacing is the Woodmaster 725.  I have had some requests for planing very wide material which I now have to turn away.  I used to have a Woodmaster and at times I miss it.  The Logosol I find is better for flooring, T&G, moulding and so on.

[clww]

I think there would be a need/market for planing wood, provided there are not other providers in your area. I know I would have work for someone with a big industrial-sized wide planer for some extra-wide oak slabs I have ripped with the CSM.
As MM posted, what about a kiln, too?

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

Do you have a kiln?

No, I don't have a Kiln, Magic. My plans are to air dry. A lot of folks go 30 miles up the road and get their lumber k-dried and then they're looking for a planer.

Good info guys.

[red]

lots of Hot Air on that Farm . . . doubt a kiln is in the future plans

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

lots of Hot Air on that Farm . . . doubt a kiln is in the future plans

:D :D :D :D  I love ya Red....you know I do.  :D :D :D :D :D  But you kill me!  :D :D :D :D

[mikeb1079]

my experience, while not totally the same situation as yours, was that when i upgraded from a lunchbox style planer to a heavy 220v machine i realized how underpowered, slow, and frustrating the little one was.  in a phrase:  don't go small.  larry had a good post.  at least in my area there's a alot of older heavy heavy built machines that most hobby guys don't have the room for or can't move.  also i think many of them can be retrofitted with a spiral cutterhead?

since you'll definitely have the room and machines to move the equipment that'd be my vote. 

[clww]

I was going to inquire about how large a planer are you thinking of?

[WoodenHead]

A number of you have mentioned a kiln.  I am just about at the point to get mine up and running.  However, I've noticed that few in my area are actually interested in kiln dried lumber.  They prefer air dried over kiln (for pine mainly, but even hardwood in some cases).  Most of my clients do not want to pay for kiln services, even when it comes to hardwood (but they still want dry wood  :).  From my point of view though, it takes too long to recover all the time and money invested if I have to wait months or years for lumber to air dry.  Fortunately pine and cedar air dry relatively fast and much of what I sell is used for outdoor projects or cottages.

If people are asking you about planing services, then you might be on to something.  So far I've been successful for quantities of about 400 linear feet and up.  Below that has been hit and miss.  For the equipment I have linear feet means more than board feet because I'm by myself and the machine doesn't care if it is wide or narrow at slow feed rates.

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

I was going to inquire about how large a planer are you thinking of?

I have no idea. But I saw a OLIVER 36" ON THE NET FOR $65,000.00  smiley_horserider

[clww]

Alrighty! Go ahead and get that planer, get the building up, power, concrete, forklift, the works. I've got eight red oak slabs that are 3" X 32" X 12' that I need smooth on two sides.
Let me know when I can bring them by.

[Okrafarmer]

I was going to inquire about how large a planer are you thinking of?

I have no idea. But I saw a OLIVER 36" ON THE NET FOR $65,000.00  smiley_horserider

Keep your powder dry, Poston, you can get one for a lot less than that, and I mean a good one. If you are patient and keep plying the internet, you can find a 24-36" industrial planer for $5,000-10,000. Try Search Tempest to search Craig's List all over the US, and also try looking at Carolina Machinery Sales' website. (See sponsors to the left).

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

 

[Brad_S.]

IMO, go big or stay home. Something like a Woodmaster is too small for planing for $$. As mentioned, you need a machine that can handle thick and thin lumber without having it get stuck and something that will hog off a 1/4 inch or better if it has to.

I would even think about a double sided machine that joints the bottom then planes the top to thickness in one pass. Newman and Strato planer are well known makes of that type of machine.

I always thought selling lumber retail and offering value added services to the home woodworker would be the answer to my business niche but I quickly discovered dealing with Harry Homeowner was a good way to waste time and lose money. Spending a half an hour meeting the customer, listening to him jabber on about his project, planing 10 bdft of lumber and then cashing him out is not a good use of time.

What I am saying is really put the pencil to paper before jumping into the retail planing market. Just because a lot of people are interested in it doesn't mean it's profitable. If it was, there would probably already be someone doing it.
Just my 2 cents.

[red oaks lumber]

is there money and a need for planing? thats what i do for 16 yrs. machined my wood but also did custom planing. alot of yrs. it would exceed 1 million b.f.
dont buy a small hobby planer, get a 4 sided like a pinheiro, smaller compact but very versitile. can plane 6" 18" all 4 sides at one pass. good used ones are around 10 -20k depending on tooling. if your going to plane lumber put in a kiln, go with nyle d.h. once people know you can dry and plane, your buisness will really start picking up.

[rooster 58]

    Now Dave, that building will never do for you. i'll show you right where to put it ;D

   Anyway, the place where I bought my mill has a nice older double planer you could get very reasonable. I  would like to have it but am not ready for it. Call Randy at First Choice Industrial. 770-861-0570. Tell him I sent you ;)

[Leigh Family Farm]

My two cents...

I just called Grizzly and Logosol about setting up a small part-time flooring/planing/molding shop in my garage. I asked what equipment I would need to handle taking KD rough cut lumber down to molding or flooring. The gentleman from Grizzly put it like this: you're production, not commercial or hobby. He told me to get the following for what I want to do (10 hours a week):

3HP Table saw with power feed or dedicated rip saw ($1,500 - $2,000)
18" 3HP 220V Planer ($1,200 - $1,800)
3HP Shaper ($1,200 - $1,500)
3HP Cyclone Dust Collection ($1,000 - $1,200)
Spiral heads, profiles, etc. ($800 - $1,000)
TOTAL: $8,500 (Grizzly has all these models)

You can add another Shaper so that you can run one tongue and the other groove, and also add another planer/molder that is a dedicated profile machine. If you feel you are gonna run more on the commercial side (3,000 linear feet a week), then defintely get the pieces suggested in prior posts.

I liked the Logosol PH260 and I would love to get it but new its $16,000 and used its still $12,000. My ideal set up would be a cabinet table saw with power feed, 18" two sided planer, and the PH260 four sided planer/molder. This also would cost me $25,000 

Again, just my two cents....

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

Good info....I just got the DanG flu today at a golf tournament. Hit me like a brick! Im bed with fever and shooting Quail. I can still read....thanks for the replies.

[barbender]

Poston, sorry to hear you're sick. You have to explain the southern euphamism "shooting quail" to me, though ???

[Peter Drouin]

Thats what there feeding him, quail will fix the flu and he'l be up sawing , thats what you eat in the south it gos in and comes out fast :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D ;D

[slider]

David I found this 225 powarmatic 24 in for 2250 after a long search.some are over priced .I am headed in the same direction as you,just taking me a while.

 

[WoodenHead]

Slider,

Wow!  That looks heavy.  What size electric motor drives the unit?  I assume you need 3 phase service for something like that.

[clww]

Hope you feel better soon, David.

[redbeard]

David I have been thinking the same as you are. Some things I have considered , The wood master 725 with spiral head and all the bells n whistles is under 10K. Yes you will have to make several passes and keep your cutters sharpened. But that also goes with bigger machines. Power source is my biggest obstacle three phase will require a converter. I have electronic converters on my 3hp equipment a shaper and blower. They been working fine for years. The logosol set up is more money and for molding will out produce the wood master by far and there new ph460 looks like the ticket. I keep going back to the wood master because of the four machines in one I believe I can turn out some small custom packages that will pay for itself in a year or two. I like your post lots of good advise.

[pineywoods]

Redbeard, I run a woodmaster 718 with most of the options. It has a single phase 220 volt 5 hp motor. Get an extra molding head and mount 2 of them on the same shaft. Have a friend who has one with the 2 routers on the outfeed end. Makes tounge and groove in 1 pass. Picky to set up but works fine. The rip saw works better as a straight line rip if you use a sled (piece of 1X12).

[JustinW_NZ]

I've been around a big 6 head planer a bit recently where they produce a lot of T&G flooring and decking.
These larger setups can obviously push a lot of material though with minimal effort!

I am also thinking of going down this path, and like kilgrosh think the logosol ph260/360 would be the ideal machine (for us smaller guys IMHO), as it cuts your time to work and way less workshop space.
The 6 head planer/molders can be good around soft wood like poplar as you can do a heavy pass at the front which will be a little rough and a lite pass at the back to make it nice IF your planning on doing lots of this material. (and have a big budget)

Just my 10cents
Justin

[drobertson]

David, for a one pony show,  starting with the 15" grizzley would fill the bill, I'm thinking you 4 sided machine would open a few more doors in the long run, its all work so why not go for a more finish product, this said start modest and then grow where the demands leads,    Personally I kinda like the 36" drum sanding idea, lots of options,  I'm sure you and (dad) will figure it out.   

[YellowHammer]

This topics has some great info and I'm wondering if or what you eventually bought and how it worked out? I'm thinking along the same lines, my planing business has picked up to the point where its time to make an investment into a serious upgrade. Old iron or new, single or double sided, American or import, been considering them all.
YH

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

Yellow Hammer. At this time I've not bought a planer. In fact the crew has not even started putting up the building yet.
My Dad's going nuts. These guys have been really busy and we understand....but I don't plan to make a move on anything until the building is up.
But you can bet when the steel starts to rise, I will post pics. 

[Happycamper]

Try VintageMachinery.org might be something there. http://www.vintagemachinery.org/classifieds/
                           Jim

[Happycamper]

Here's one on that site Rockwell 24" $2250.00