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What is this?

Started by MSSawmill, April 19, 2013, 10:56:42 AM

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MSSawmill

This is in central Mississippi, near a pond, in what used to be pastureland but was planted in pines about 10 years ago. We were clearing out under some of the pine trees and couldn't figure out what this one was...


  

  
Home-built bandsaw mill
2004 Kubota M110 with LA1301 loader

SwampDonkey

Is it beech? Are the branches real stiff and the wood hard? If it is, it's tough stuff to thin in to with a brush saw, like barbed wire and hard to get it to the ground.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

mesquite buckeye

Looks like a black cherry to me. Could be another Prunus.
Manage 80 acre tree farm in central Missouri and Mesquite timber and about a gozillion saguaros in Arizona.

WDH

The leaves look to be doubly serrate.  Is this true?
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

SwampDonkey

Looks like it could be an elm from some of the leaf bases being non-symmetrical. If so it's not white elm, as ours have real scaly bark even when young and kind of striped.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

MSSawmill

Quote from: WDH on April 19, 2013, 12:44:05 PM
The leaves look to be doubly serrate.  Is this true?
They are serrated. Not sure what you mean by " doubly serrate" though...
Quote from: SwampDonkey on April 19, 2013, 12:52:55 PM
Looks like it could be an elm from some of the leaf bases being non-symmetrical. If so it's not white elm, as ours have real scaly bark even when young and kind of striped.
I was thinking elm based on the research i've done. The bark is definitely smooth though.
Home-built bandsaw mill
2004 Kubota M110 with LA1301 loader

limbrat

it reminds me of a chinkipin
ben

WDH

Actually, I am pretty sure that it is a young hophornbeam, Ostrya virginiana.  The bark gets scaly as they age. 
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

SwampDonkey

None that I've seen. Any bigger than your thumb is scaly here and before that the bark is dark red brown and bumpy with lenticels and can almost be confused for a young yellow birch.

I'm not even sure if any of those leaves are asymmetrical, they could be just turned in a way that appears so. Need a focused picture of the leaves. However, the way the leaves are grouped on the branch tips are typical of both beech and ironwood in shade.

Certainly ironwood can't be ruled out yet.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

WDH

I believe that it is definitely hophornbeam.  That is the way the young ones look on my property.  Bark exactly like that at a young age.  (Don't argue with me  :D).
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

SwampDonkey

 :D :D :D Need a grits tossing smiley. :D
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

caveman

Initially, it appeared that the leaves had unequal bases and I thought elm.  Then, looking at the shape and from what I could see of the margin and the tips of the leaves, they look a lot like a hophornbeam.  Do some of the lateral leaf veins break or spilt before they reach the edge of the leaf?  Is the leaf at all fuzzy?  Both of these would indicate that it could be a hophornbeam + WDH said it was.
Caveman
Caveman

elk42

 I believe it is black cherry tree. They are all along I 55 and high way 27.
Machinist Retired, Lt15 WM 25 HP, Stihl 044, Stihl 311, Kubota M2900w/FEL, KUBOTA L4800 w/FEL,
Lincoln Ranger 10,000, stihl 034,

SwampDonkey

Also, our ironwood (O. Virginiana) have a reddish hue to the leaves as they emerge like yellow birch does.

This tree shows this at the ends of the twigs. The fruit is already filled out to, so it's not early spring. Also this tree was planted as a twig in 1992, the thickness of a pencil and the bark is now all scaly and was so long before now. It's in the yard. Will get a bark picture when the sun brightens up the sky. ;D


"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

WDH

I have hacked and squirted a thousand of them that size.  Cherry is not doubly serrate, so that cannot be it.  The lenticels on the bark remind you of cherry, but the birch family has them, too, and Ostrya virgininiana is in the birch family.  Very birchy looking, and that leads directly to hophornbeam.  I will try to post an identical pic of that bark from a 100% known specimen to assuage the skeptical  ;D.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

SwampDonkey

Here's my ironwood (O. Virginiana) aka hop-hornbeam. Notice the reddish brown branches and bark. Bark is scaly to. ;) This tree is 15 feet tall and my hand is about 6 feet up from the stump. You can see the branches are warty with lenticels (yellowish brown dots). Planted in 1992 as a pencil sized bush. The other tree to the left is same.

"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

SwampDonkey

Up here ironwood blends in real well with hazels to. They'll grow up in the middle of a clump and sometimes you want to leave a crop tree in what seems to be a hole with hazels. Then you cut the only real tree, which happened to be an ironwood. Argg! The dang rabbits will chew the bark off an ironwood and leave all the darn hazels. ::)
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

MSSawmill

Wow! Y'all got a lot deeper than I ever imagined! (Ever a little bit of a smackdown in there...) I'll try to get some better pics of the tree in the next day or so. It should be putting out pretty good by now.

Ironwood and hophornbeam don't ring a bell as native species, but I don't know! There is a wild cherry pretty close by, so I'll try and grab some pics of that, too. Elm would make the most sense, but if I knew, I guess I wouldn't be asking! Lol!
Home-built bandsaw mill
2004 Kubota M110 with LA1301 loader

Dodgy Loner

It's elm. Probably American elm. If the pictures were in focus, Danny would agree with me. I'm just younger and my eyesight is better ;D ;)
"There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who consider price only are this man's lawful prey." -John Ruskin

Any idiot can write a woodworking blog. Here's mine.

SwampDonkey

Here's a young cherry



Here's a young white elm, striped bark as it begins to furrow pretty young.



These trees are on the edge of my yellow birch plantation and not over topped.

As I've said earlier, if elm is what it is, it's no elm I'm familiar with. We only have American elm up here and it grows like weeds.

The branching habit in his photo is very much like our beech which I have cut thousands with a brush saw and I hate thinning the barb-like stuff every time. :D :D
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

mesquite buckeye

 :snowfight1: dadgum you, Charlie! teeter_totter splitwood_smiley boxingsmiley laugh_at smiley_argue01 Violin_smiley bat_smailey bat_smailey smiley_whip smiley_whip smiley_whip


smiley_big-grin2

Somebody is right. Sure would be nice to see some in focus leaves of this tree.
Manage 80 acre tree farm in central Missouri and Mesquite timber and about a gozillion saguaros in Arizona.

SwampDonkey

Yes, use the macro setting for both sides of a leaf. ;D
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

mesquite buckeye

Also the buds and leaf scars to be definitive... :)
Manage 80 acre tree farm in central Missouri and Mesquite timber and about a gozillion saguaros in Arizona.

WDH

Quote from: Dodgy Loner on April 22, 2013, 04:47:47 PM
It's elm. Probably American elm. If the pictures were in focus, Danny would agree with me. I'm just younger and my eyesight is better ;D ;)

Sorry Grasshopper Dodgy, that is Betulaceace  :).  Looks like I am going to have to go to the hophornbeam woods tomorrow for a pic.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Dodgy Loner

I stand by my original determination. We're gonna need a clearer picture :snowball:

:D
"There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who consider price only are this man's lawful prey." -John Ruskin

Any idiot can write a woodworking blog. Here's mine.

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