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Frame raising in Atlanta

Started by Jim_Rogers, April 16, 2013, 02:02:27 PM

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Jim_Rogers

My client says he's about ready to put it up.

He wants me there next week to help him "fit up" his frame and raise it on Saturday the 27th starting around 9 am.

Anyone in the greater Atlanta area that would like to stop by and help is welcome.
We'll be there Wednesday through Saturday working on it.
If you can't make it for Saturday and want to help out on the fit up that would be helpful as well.

Send me a pm or email and I'll forward you the address.

Jim Rogers
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

dukndog

Wish I could make it Jim. BTW...Highland Woodworking store in Atlanta has Roy Underhill there Sat. and Sun. as well.
WM LT-15G25 w/PwrFeed, Mahindra 3510, Husky 385xp, Stihl MS261 and a wife who supports my hobby!!

bushhog920

I am interested in sat. and maybe fri. can you tell me more and where it is.

                                                                                                  matt

Jim_Rogers

I'm not suppose to post someone else's address on the open forum.
You need to send me a pm or an email and I'll forward you the info.

Jim
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

Jim_Rogers

Well, I'm in the great state of Georgia now.
And it was quite a day getting here.

First off, I got to the airport in Manchester, NH to find that my flight was canceled. My ride had left and there I was. Well they, the airlines had me booked on another flight by another airline.
So off I went to that one. Instead of flying to NY city to get on another plane to fly to GA, I was suppose to go to Philly and get one there to GA.
Found the gate ok and got in and through the security no problems. That part about taking off my belt was a bit risky, as a big guy like me with no belt could be a problem. But luckily and that's a big "BUTT" my pants managed to stay up while I stood in the whole body scanner with my hands over my head.

Sitting on the runway and the pilot says that air traffic said they couldn't take off for 18 minutes from our regularly scheduled take off time.

Well, last time I flew south it wasn't a problem as I got off one plane, walked over three gates and got on another some 30 minutes later.
This time the second plane was clear on the other side of the airport. And I only had 35 minutes between the scheduled flights. Less the 18 minutes I just lost. And we arrived a little late. And of course another airline. So shuttle bus to the terminal and walking a fast as I could I managed to get to the very last gate all the way down the furthest point, at exactly 3:30 pm and that was the time the plane was suppose to take off. I asked the nice clerk at the desk if I had enough time to go back to the "mens room" before I got on the plane.
It's no fun for a big guy like me to try and get into a tiny airplane bathroom.

He told me I had all the time I needed as the door was closed and that plane/flight was done.
I had missed it.
I never had that happen to me before. But I'm not a "worldly traveler"....

I got put on another flight about 1 hour later, and that went smooth.

My next concern was, which flight did my baggage go on? the first one it was suppose to? or the second one that I was about to take?
I had no way of knowing.

While standing at the carousel, waiting to find out, I saw my "tool bag" coming around..... that was a good sign. And not long after that my clothes bag was there. Wew.... that was a close call.....

Lots of timbers to work on, and my ride will be there before 7 am. got to go now.....
More as this week progresses.

Jim Rogers
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

beenthere

Jim
Know that story VERY well, as it seems to be the norm rather than the exception.
Now they are playing chess with the flight controllers so who knows what will happen.

Look forward to hearing about your destination and what is going on at the frame raising.
8)
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

dukndog

Sorry for your run of luck Jim. Looking forward to some great pics of the raising!!
WM LT-15G25 w/PwrFeed, Mahindra 3510, Husky 385xp, Stihl MS261 and a wife who supports my hobby!!

Jim_Rogers

We had a very productive day yesterday. We got a lot of things done.

Had a little rain late in the day but we were watching the radar and saw it coming so no tools were outside when it started.

My client was working on some rafter seats in one of the plates that needed to be finished up and his man was using his boring machine boring mortises and peg holes. Insert picture here......(I will later when I can)

Here it is:


 

Today we should finish the last few joints that need to be cut, and begin the "fit up" stage of the pre-raising process.

In order to insure that every thing will go together right on "raising day" we pre-fit all joints.

My procedure is to test fit every tenon into it's intended mortise to make sure it will go. We use a framing square to check the size of the mortise. And a caliper set to the framing square to make sure that every tenon is the correct thickness:



 

Above is a photo of my framing square checking a mortise.

Below is setting the caliper to the framing square:



 

Here is a shot of checking a tenon:



 

After we have fit up each tenon into their intended mortise we will bore the tenon peg hole. And we will be off setting the peg hole in the tenon just a little amount so that when we drive the peg in the peg will act like a wedge and pull the joint together. This is called "draw boring".

No rain expected today so we should have a good day to get a lot of fit ups done.

Jim Rogers

Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

piller

Sounds interesting.  What is the project, can you provide any details about the frame?  Where is the project, what town or zip code (trying to figure out how far from my place in East TN)?  Thanks.

Jim_Rogers

Quote from: piller on April 25, 2013, 10:16:52 PM
Sounds interesting.  What is the project, can you provide any details about the frame?  Where is the project, what town or zip code (trying to figure out how far from my place in East TN)?  Thanks.

I sent you a pm with his address.


thanks and I hope you can make it.

Jim Rogers
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

Jim_Rogers

I'm not sure why, but when I try to upload a photo to my gallery it says my album doesn't exist or I don't have permission to upload to it. So I can't seem to post any pictures right now.

Update.
We have a very long and productive day.

We have been boring all the holes for the pegs through the mortises and have just about all of them done.

We have been through the entire pile of braces and they seem to be all ready.

Dave finished off the second "two piece" plate yesterday morning.

Yesterday we fit up one of the walls and found one small error the entire plate was 1" too long. With careful investigation we found that the scarf joint was problem. With several small cuts we brought it back to the correct dimension.

Note to self. Be-careful when you layout a scarf.

After we took the wall apart, and stored away all it's pieces
We put together the second wall "two-piece" plate.
And,.....drum roll...... it measured exactly correct......"a loud cheer from the group" Dave laid out that scarf..... better job of that then mine.

Today we'll finish this wall's fit up and then fit up the rafter pairs.

After that we'll fit up the bents. We'll need to bore lots more peg holes.

Thanks for your interest and we will post photos later on.

Jim Rogers
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

WmFritz

Looking forward to some more pictures. Good luck with the raising tomorrow.   ;)
~Bill

2012 Homebuilt Bandmill
1959 Detroit built Ferguson TO35

Jim_Rogers

We had a great day yesterday.

A FF member bushhog920 (Matt) and a friend showed up early afternoon to help, learn and watch.
And they were a huge help right away.
We were putting together rafter pairs and carrying them from the driveway to out back near the raising site.
Carrying timbers with two more people is a lot easier with many hands.

We have test fit Wall A, Wall B, Bent 1, Bent 2, and half way through Bent three when the pizza arrived for our supper.

We had also put together 5 pairs of rafters and where on the sixth pair when we found we had two right hand ones instead of a right and a left.
So we had to stop doing that and Dave, my client, had to cut out another one from some extra stock he had on hand.

bushhog920 and his friend Robert, got to watch me layout the rafter. And Dave had it cut out in no time. After already doing 14 of them he was pretty fast at the process.

This morning, we'll finish up our test fit of bent #3 and then move it out to the deck. After that we'll do bent #4 and the last four rafter pairs.
Around 10 am or so we'll start the raising.

We moved out bent one tie beam and put it up on top of the fireplace posts that have been already raised and secured to the fireplace. After it was up we could get an exact measurement of the top off finished floor to top of tie beam. This allowed us to cut the posts to the exact lengths we needed so that the sit down onto the deck supports already in place.

We then put up post 1a and 1b, plumbed them and secured them to the deck support frame. So bent one is up.

Hopefully the weather will be in our favor and not rain until late afternoon. Of course we'll see what happens about that.

Wish us luck with the weather.

Oh, one more thing.
While fitting up one bent, our commander split. So we had to make another head, and install it on the handle.



 
I told of the story where I went to a guild raising with my commander. And when I walked up to the crew chief and said I was there and ready to help put the frame together, he said "great, and you brought your commander?" I said yes. He said: "I'm glad you did. We broke three or four of them yesterday!"

It's always good to have spare commander heads on hand, just in-case you need them.



 

Here is a screen capture shot of the frame we're raising.
It is going to be a 16' x 24' screen house by the pool.



 

Jim Rogers

Or course, more later on

When I got to the job, he only had one mallet. His mallet. So I had to make one for myself.

I took a piece of wood that came with the lumber as a piece of dunnage. It was a 4x4 and appeared to be hardwood. I didn't know what type until I cut it off on his chop saw. From the green grain, I thought it was Locust.

I bored a hole through it and attached a 1" peg from the box for a handle.

It was a big cracked but held up well.



 
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

samandothers

Thanks for sharing the detail of progress.   Look forward to the photos of the experience. 

Jim_Rogers

Well, it's up.
I was so busy from 7am till it was done, that I didn't even take my camera out of it's case. But rest assured there will be photos.
My client's wife took lots, and they have promised me copies of them all.

I can't thank enough another FF member Matt (bushhog920) and his friend Robert who came to this event for two days. And helped above and beyond.

This was Matt's second raising and Robert's first.

Matt has his own sawmill and we've had many conversations about sawing, harvesting trees, building timber frames as well as his work, and firefighting.

It's nice to see a young man so interested in these subjects.

Update.

Saturday morning we finished the fit up of bent #3. We viewed the site an prepared a list of modifications that needed to be done to secure the frame to the support deck foundation.

While test fitting rafter pairs we discovered that we had two rights and needed to cut one more left.
We did have extra stock on hand, so just after noon I laid out the rafter showing Matt and Robert how we do it. Then my client cut these "last" rafter. As he had already done 14 of these before, he was able to fab this rafter in about 40 minutes. And all were finished.

In order to save sometime, we didn't dis-assemble them. We carried them whole from the driveway around the back side of the house and stacked them on the patio next to the pool. The plan was to lift them up over the side of the plate, and stack them up on the staging deck.

As we finished up the fit up of bent 4, others carried out timbers to the screen house site, where they were stacked for assembly. My client had made a "timber cart" and he suggested that anyone who is going to do any timber framing build a timber cart first. He didn't he built his near the end of his fabricating the timbers. And he said it was a life saver, and how he should have built it first.

I asked him if he could estimate what it cost him to make it. He said he purchased two wheels, on piece of threaded rod, some nuts and washers, for under $50. The frame was made out of wood. He felt that he may have made it too wide. But I told him mine had the wheels too close together and was very tippy.
His had a wide stance and it could carry two timbers no problem. Although we seldom did.



 

There was concern that the axle rod was bending when loaded. I suggested if he was going to continue to use it that he modify it to included a center board to prevent the axle from bending which will make it stronger and better. Mine had such a piece and it seemed to work for me.

Raising.
Bent 2 went together without any problems. We discovered that the locations where the post would sit down through the decking were narrower then expected and we had to shave some off the post bottoms.
After that the bent went up without a hitch.

Next we had to raise bent three and not in it's final position. We couldn't raise this bent with the feet of the posts in there final locations because we needed the space to raise bent four. So we planned to raise bent three up right next to bent two and after raising bent four we "walked" the standing bent 7' down the deck and lowered down to the support blocking using levers and fulcrums. I was sure we could do it but I wasn't completely sure how we'd do it. One post slid very easily on the deck. The other one was able to be lifted by a bar and shifted a few inches at a time.

See post below for pictures of this.

After all bents were up we set up the "gin pole" that was made by my client and attached my rigging that was shipped to Atlanta.

Matt tree work experience was very helpful in securing off the back line, and two side guide lines after the gin pole was raised.
We raised the first of four plate timbers and set it without any problems from the inside of the frame. The other side of the frame's wall plate was easier to raise from the outside of the frame.

We then had to relocate the gin pole from bay 3 to bay 1. Moving a fully rigged gin pole down and under two tie beam was a bit of work but with the many hands we had on site it didn't take that long.

The third piece of plate was raised and the scarf was put back together in the air, as the plate was lowered down onto the post tops. Afterward we rotated the rigging on top of the gin pole instead of rotating the entire gin pole that we did the first time. This was much easier and we most likely should have done this the first time.

After all the plates were up, together and pegged off, we took most of roof decking tongue and groove boards and put them onto the tie beams to make a temporary decking to stand on to add the roof rafter pairs. This worked for us very well.

Now that the "second floor" decking was in place three went up and were ready for the rafter pairs. My client, his wife and myself then had the task of carrying the assembled pairs of rafters from the stack to the side of the frame, where we passed them up over the side of the plate to the crew up above. This basically went ok. But another few hands would have been nice to have.

Several pairs were set in place, but we couldn't set them all as they went up as they would be in the way for sliding up more pairs. So they were stood up against the second pair and secured from falling over with a nylon ratchet strap. When the last "gable pair" were up they were set in place. And the others were then moved done the plates to their seats. Secured and plumbed.

We did run out of daylight but we got it done.

Afterward we all sat done for a feast of chicken wings and other fixings that the misses had prepared for us, including some ice cream cake and cookies for desert.

As we finished our desert they brought in a laptop and showed us a "slide show" of pictures of the last few days and the raising. I have been assured I will get a copy that I will be able to post here within the next few days.

Today I will be able to take some pictures and I will post them tomorrow.

It was a great raising. No one got hurt, as we were all very safety aware, and continuously cleaned up any "trip hazards".

That's it for now.
More later.

Jim Rogers
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

danreed76

glad to hear it went well Jim.  If I wasn't away at work, I would have made the time to come up and help for sure.

-Dan
Woodmizer LT40 Hydraulic with resaw attachment |  Kubota MX5200  | (late)1947 8N that I can't seem to let go.

samandothers

Glad all were safe and not big issues. Sounds like a great job was accomplished along with some good fellowship!  Look forward to future postings.

Jim_Rogers

I got home late last night, safe and sound. Well safe anyway :D

I have so much to do today, to get caught up with everything, and not enough time to do it.

Here is the last shot first.

I promise I will post more. Dave my client who is also a FF member, will be sending me more pictures when he can get them from his daughter's computer. Or he may post them himself.



 

On the left is Matt (bushhog920) in the middle is Dave (drbtimber) and yours truly Jim Rogers on the right.

Sorry I could only bring two hats with me. I brought a dirty work hat and my nice clean Woodmizer Pro Network hat. I didn't have room for my FF hat on this trip.

More later.

Jim Rogers
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

Brad_bb

That's cool.  Looks like the deck is suspended on the hillside.  It's looks scenic with the pool and now the frame.  Will the new building be used for the pool?  It's nice how the finish work on the front of the deck was already done.  I'm sure you had to be careful around the finished pool area, or maybe you laid down some plywood to protect it?
Anything someone can design, I can sure figure out how to fix!
If I say it\\\\\\\'s going to take so long, multiply that by at least 3!

Jim_Rogers

Are you ready for some more pictures?

Here is the driveway where we were working on the timbers:



That's one of the two wall plates that were connected with the scarf joint.

Here is a shot of a wall completely fit up:



 

and from above:



 

Here is a shot of the door header and jamb timbers fit up between bent post 2a and 3a:



  

Here is the stack of assembled rafter pairs near the pool waiting to be passed up over the side of the plate to the roof area.



 



 

This is a picture of bent one in place. There were two "chimney posts" installed earlier on and we had to put the tie on these posts and then slide the wall posts onto the tie beam's tenons.
As well as put them down into the deck onto the supporting timbers:



 

The above shot was the other corner of wall B but it was the same thing at the other gable end.



 

Above is a shot of Dave's timber cart; we used it to move all the timbers from the driveway to the pool patio area. Other than the assembled rafter pairs. We hand carried them out from the driveway to the patio area.

There was no plywood used anywhere on this job for any reason.

The deck was on a hillside and it was a challenge to design a frame to fit properly to the supporting timbers.
As shown here:



 

This is the chimney end view before the chimney/fireplace was built.

To be sure that everyone would be safe during the raising I requested that Dave install a secure railing around the three open sides of the deck strong enough to prevent anyone from falling off the open deck.



 

Here is a drawing of what I had in mind, but I just drew some short rails to get the idea across.
What was build worked very fine. And I tested it to be sure that it was strong enough to prevent a person from falling off the deck.

Also, I drew in the gin pole to show how we would use it in the raising of the plates in two pieces:



 

Here is one shot of the gin pole setting one of the rear plate halves:



 

Matt was sighting one of the peg holes before inserting a peg from the outside. Pegs are most always driven in from the reference face of the timber.

I will show later on the standing up of bent three, beside bent two when Dave sends me the pictures. But I did mention that I would post a picture of how we moved a standing bent down the deck to it's location.
I used a large long strong metal pry bar to lift the post up by using it as a lever.
I put it under the post like this:



 

And lifted up the post, and then shifted the post over to my left by moving the lever to this position:



 

Almost like rowing a boat.
This moved one side of this standing 750 lbs bent like it was nothing at all. It only moved it several inches each time, but after about a minute I had it all the way down the deck to it's final position.
We then used the bar to lower it down 7" to the support timbers, by lifting it up with shorter after shorter fulcrums. This lowered it down very easily.

That's about all I can show you today.

Jim Rogers
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

beenthere

Clever ideas and good thread.

I'm a bit surprised that hard hats aren't used when raising a frame.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Jim_Rogers

I had mine all ready to pack. But I couldn't fit it into my tool bag after I put all the other tools in there.
And I figured I'd be the only one wearing one, so I left it out.

We don't carry any tools aloft and we don't walk under anyone up there, so we can't get hit in the head with anything anyway.

Jim Rogers
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

Jim_Rogers

In reply #12 of this thread, I posted a picture of the frame as it was first designed.

They decided that they weren't going to "screen" in all the lower sections below the "girts" going between the posts. But instead that they'd put in some vertical shiplap siding. That may look something like this:



 

Due to the traffic noise from the nearby highway, they have decided to enclose the end wall either side of the fireplace. So it may look something like this:



 

In most of my drawings you see a figure of a man that we use for visualization. This man is a German timber framer and his name is Woody. He is 5' 8" tall or there about.

But I wanted you to see what a real person would look like standing in the same spot as Woody:



 

It was dark and raining Sunday morning when I took this shot, but I believe you can see Dave standing there.

After the raising was done and we walked into the dinning room to sit down for our feast, the girls had prepared a poster and some balloons for the celebration:



  

They were later moved to the fridge in the garage/workshop.

Well, that's about it.

Jim Rogers
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

Jim_Rogers

One of the challenges of building is getting everything to fit together. Such as a fireplace and timber frame.

When we raised the first pair of rafters on the chimney gable end the collar beam was resting against the zero clearance one piece chimney blocks. This prevented it from standing plumb.

Dave and his stone/brick/tile setting helper, managed to lean the pair back enough to remove a little bit of wood from the collar beam. This allow it to stand true and straight up. "12 o'clock" as Shawn would say.

Next, came the challenge of adding a few more of these 80 lbs blocks to the top of the chimney to get the 2' clearance needed over the roof surface.

They have sent me these two update photos:



 

and:



 

The temporary second floor decking is the lumber intended for roof decking. They will continue installing it and the frame will not have any loft floor. You will be able to see the rafters from the first floor.

We discussed lighting and Dave may attach lights to the top of the tie beams that may shine up to the rafters to light up the space during evening hours.

There is an electrical service junction box to the left side of the fireplace below the deck. The electrician will install a panel box there on/in the end wall panel once it's finished off. This panel will most likely be hidden, possibly by a wall mounted TV for evening viewing by the fire.

This will be a nice cool place to spend time relaxing and entertaining.

Jim Rogers
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

WmFritz

Nice looking project, Jim. I look forward to the finished photo's.
~Bill

2012 Homebuilt Bandmill
1959 Detroit built Ferguson TO35

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