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BF/hr rates advertised (because I'm a hard head)

Started by OlJarhead, April 12, 2013, 04:40:23 PM

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OlJarhead

Love to see some good log deck pics.  Thinking about making some portable set ups for my mill.
2016 LT40HD26 and Mahindra 5010 W/FEL WM Hundred Thousand BF Club Member

Bandmill Bandit

I find it is just quicker to set up a roll way out of available logs and then saw them the last. Found that trying to transport t and set up 20 footer is just to much work and any thing shorter is kind of a wast e of time. IMHO
Skilled Master Sawyer. "Skilled labour don't come cheap. Cheap labour dont come skilled!
2018 F150 FX4, Husqvarna 340, 2 Logright 36 inch cant hooks and a bunch of stuff I built myself

mesquite buckeye

I have yet to see a 20 ft mesquite log. Our average is 3-6ft. Once in a while we can find one 10ft or so, but pretty rare. :-\
Manage 80 acre tree farm in central Missouri and Mesquite timber and about a gozillion saguaros in Arizona.

Brucer

The published sawing rates are usually based on the following:

- optimum sized logs.
- "easy" logs ... straight, not too much taper, green, etc.
- "someone else" stages the logs.
- "someone else" removes the product.
- "someone else" removes the slabs and edgings.
- the time spend disposing of the waste, and bucking the logs isn't included.
- maintenance time and refuelling isn't included.
- the sawing runs are half a day or less so operator fatigue isn't an issue.
- the weather is reasonably good.

I calculate my production over the period of a month and then figure out a daily rate from that.

Bruce    LT40HDG28 bandsaw
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand wrong answers."

t f flippo

Brucer, Very good post.I didn't answer OL's question.I instead offered an opinion.
With your list of 'specs', I wonder what kind of production/bf the mill n I could turn out.

Regards,

Tc

Ianab

Big difference is what  the mill COULD potentially do, and what YOUR operation can do.

Take a manual mill, and work alone, with little support equipment. What percentage of the time is the blade actually cutting? Bet it's not much. Loading logs, offloading, disposing of waste etc. Maybe 25% of the time is actually cutting?

Now take the same mill. Get a couple keen helpers, put them in a saw shed so you don't have to worry about the weather, give them a forklift, racks and roller tables etc to handle material. One guy saws, one offloads the other gets logs staged and moves material with the forklift. Give them nice straight medium size logs. Now the last board comes off, next log goes on and gets dogged down in the time that you are raising the head back up for the next cut. Now you keep the saw in the wood 75% of the time. Same mill, but you cut 3X the material....

Which operation does the manufacturer rate the mill on?

Ian
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

Brucer

To some extent I think the various manufacturer's force each other to use the most optimistic rate. I've seen the way the numbers are reported change over the years.

The manual for the 1996 LT40 hydraulic I ran one summer said the mill could produce up to 1000 BF per day with one operator, or 2000 BF per day with two.

In 2004 & 2005 the advertising literature said the LT40 hydraulic could produce from 250 BF/hr to 400 BF/hr. A footnote said "Due to many variables actual production figures will vary."

Now the literature just gives the larger number.

I
Bruce    LT40HDG28 bandsaw
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand wrong answers."

Bandmill Bandit

Yup Brucer

If I calculate for all the work that goes into getting straight lumber I end up at pretty much  half of what I actually get cut in an hour of pure sawing.

Job I am on right now is a dream job. All I do is saw and take care of the mill.
My helper stacks and bands lumber and keeps the saw site tidy. Cut just over 6000 in 8.5 hours including lunch time of about 30 minutes yesterday so right around 700BF/h. I am cutting nice clean fresh straight pine 12 and 14 footers average diameter is around 14 to 16  inches small end with minimal taper. I hope can maintain that.
Skilled Master Sawyer. "Skilled labour don't come cheap. Cheap labour dont come skilled!
2018 F150 FX4, Husqvarna 340, 2 Logright 36 inch cant hooks and a bunch of stuff I built myself

petefrom bearswamp

BF per hr ratings by manufacturers in my opinion can be compared to the EPA gas mileage ratings. Not realistic.
I cannot approach these ratings.
For me a great day is 2- 2.5 mbf. when I have help.
I am too slow i guess.
Kubota 8540 tractor, FEL bucket and forks, Farmi winch
Kubota 900 RTV
Polaris 570 Sportsman ATV
3 Huskies 1 gas Echo 1 cordless Echo vintage Homelite super xl12
57 acres of woodland

Tom L

Job I am on right now is a dream job. All I do is saw and take care of the mill.
My helper stacks and bands lumber and keeps the saw site tidy. Cut just over 6000 in 8.5 hours including lunch time of about 30 minutes yesterday so right around 700BF/h. I am cutting nice clean fresh straight pine 12 and 14 footers average diameter is around 14 to 16  inches small end with minimal taper. I hope can maintain that.
[/quote]


wow that is kickin butt, that's a log every 15 minutes. must be set up perfect.
I had one like that once, all poplar logs 28-30" diameter and 14 ft long, the guy had his 11 yr old son running a backhoe, and his 9 yr old son running a lull forklift, and both kids were great, never had to wait for a log and all the boards and scrap were off the mill in a hurry. the kids were board after 5 hrs so we quit. worked out at 530 ft per hr.
most of the time I average 200 with a normal setup. all still below the rated 675 brd ft per hour rating of the machine

Tom the Sawyer

When I was looking for a mill and saw those figures it seemed that most were "up to" figures, many with disclaimers.  Some manufacturers may have actually polled their customers to find out a realistic figure but there are so many variables that I would never take those rates as a guarantee.  The Sawmill Shootout reports would give you an idea of what a finely tuned mill, with an experienced team, under ideal conditions, is capable of turning out - not a real world situation.   blindsmiley

If it would have made that much difference then perhaps I would have visited more mills or asked detailed questions.  I had hired several different mills over the years and I had a pretty good idea of what they were capable of.  Board feet per hour, or per day, was not a consideration. 

After all, it is a marketing tool, and once you've signed on the dotted line its yours.  You can't rely on a glossy brochure or a salesman's asssurances to make your decision.   no_no 

smiley_reading_book  Read forums, talk to other owners, watch them in operation and ask questions.  Buying a mill, or anything else that represents a substantial amount of money, without investigating it thoroughly, can often lead to buyer's remorse.
07 TK B-20, Custom log arch, 20' trailer w/log loading arch, F350 flatbed dually dump.  Piggy-back forklift.  LS tractor w/FEL, Bobcat S250 w/grapple, Stihl 025C 16", Husky 372XP 24/30" bars, Grizzly 20" planer, Nyle L200M DH kiln.
If you call and my wife says, "He's sawin logs", I ain't snoring.

Bandmill Bandit

I FORGOT TO TAKE A PIC.

BUT will post one on friday when i am back home on friday.

The MOST benifical "mod" I have done to date is amazing. Saves fuel, reduced alternator operating temp to a the point I can actually put my hand on it while the mill is running. power to all electrics has never been so stable. i am gona go out on a limb and say my electrical re[pair cost will be lowered and the life of electrical components significantly increased. I will see if I can post a pic from my i pad tomorrow. If i cant get it done that way it will come on friday.

Cost of mod was about 30 bucks out of pocket on the weekend as i had collected the major components from garage/auctions sales over the years. if i include the cost of those, cost would be about 100 bucks.

There is a 2010 LT70 operating in the same location and he says my mill can move logs around  a lot faster then his 70 does. he figures i need another 10 to 15 HP and i would out cut his mill.

My mill has never worked this good.

700BF/hr is sustainable within current operating conditions! And not too difficult.

Now i need an in feed deck and an edger. 1000BF/hr just may be reach able. 
Skilled Master Sawyer. "Skilled labour don't come cheap. Cheap labour dont come skilled!
2018 F150 FX4, Husqvarna 340, 2 Logright 36 inch cant hooks and a bunch of stuff I built myself

stefan

Quote from: Bandmill Bandit on April 17, 2013, 08:29:11 AM
Yup Brucer

If I calculate for all the work that goes into getting straight lumber I end up at pretty much  half of what I actually get cut in an hour of pure sawing.

Job I am on right now is a dream job. All I do is saw and take care of the mill.
My helper stacks and bands lumber and keeps the saw site tidy. Cut just over 6000 in 8.5 hours including lunch time of about 30 minutes yesterday so right around 700BF/h. I am cutting nice clean fresh straight pine 12 and 14 footers average diameter is around 14 to 16  inches small end with minimal taper. I hope can maintain that.
That is a lot of lumber, great work!
But just out of curiosity, and to help me get a better picture, how many logs would that be?

francismilker

Quote from: OlJarhead on April 12, 2013, 10:34:11 PM
Oh I'd be surprised if I could mill hardwood at better then 50bf/hr frankly.

When you get that 10HP installed you'll be surprised.  Me and my son can turn out 150-200 an hour on 12-16" oaks right now as long as they're staged on the log decks for easy loading.
"whatsoever thy hands finds to do; do it with thy might" Ecc. 9:10

WM LT-10supergo, MF-271 w/FEL, Honda 500 Foreman, Husq 550, Stihl 026, and lots of baling wire!

Chuck White

Well Bandit, What did you do?

Inquiring minds want to know!  ;)
~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

OlJarhead

Quote from: francismilker on April 25, 2013, 07:05:47 AM
Quote from: OlJarhead on April 12, 2013, 10:34:11 PM
Oh I'd be surprised if I could mill hardwood at better then 50bf/hr frankly.

When you get that 10HP installed you'll be surprised.  Me and my son can turn out 150-200 an hour on 12-16" oaks right now as long as they're staged on the log decks for easy loading.
With an LT10G10?

That would be a NICE improvement!  The 7hp just can't do it - it's does 100+ on Pine but anything harder and it bogs down like crazy.
2016 LT40HD26 and Mahindra 5010 W/FEL WM Hundred Thousand BF Club Member

Bandmill Bandit

Quote from: Chuck White on April 25, 2013, 07:19:08 AM
Well Bandit, What did you do?

Inquiring minds want to know!  ;)


Its coming Chuck, in picture form and have to thank my electronics/electrical engineer kid for prodding me to get it built and doing the electrical part of it.

stefan
Setfan, we dont count logs just finished lumber. I will have summary of the daily cut sheets on the 30th so will be able to post accurate numbers then.
Skilled Master Sawyer. "Skilled labour don't come cheap. Cheap labour dont come skilled!
2018 F150 FX4, Husqvarna 340, 2 Logright 36 inch cant hooks and a bunch of stuff I built myself

stefan

Thanks BB!
And like everybody else i am also looking forward to see what your latest "mod" is.
I have seen the other stuff you did, and it looks very good.

Bandmill Bandit

Sorry I forgot to take a pic of the mod/addition but you can just see it sitting under the tail gate of the truck if you look close. will post a close up wednesday evening when I come home to sharpen bands.

Pics of set up and lumber from 2 hours  Thursday evening after supper, through Friday quitting time. 2 lifts of 3 by 10 X 10" and 2 lifts of 1x material headed to the edger moved out just before the pics were snapped around 530 PM





Skilled Master Sawyer. "Skilled labour don't come cheap. Cheap labour dont come skilled!
2018 F150 FX4, Husqvarna 340, 2 Logright 36 inch cant hooks and a bunch of stuff I built myself

Kansas

I gave up on bd ft per hour. When you might flow a log into 4 or 5 products, it isn't worth figuring. Take an oak log for trailer decking, the first cuts might go into cants for the resaw. Then you might have a few clean boards find their way into the kiln dried lumber pile. Then you hope to have some good trailer deck boards. If you run into a problem with a log, then its canted up for the resaw into some other product. Now toss in the fact that most days you have to tinker a bit with the sawmill. Change blades. Unload logs. Load mulch. Someone wanting kiln dried lumber and wanting a straight edge on it. A specialized order for the guys building skids and boxes. Moving stacks of lumber out. Bibbymans ol' fart syndrome. Using up low grade logs that slow you down. Guess its more if at the end of the day, we cut enough to meet expenses and payments. And payroll and inventory. And make some money to go with it.

Tom L

is it a dog under the tailgate? every time you stop sawing he growls at you. keeps you going so you don't get bit?

Bandmill Bandit

Sorry it has been so long to get these pics posted.

here they are and I can tell you that it is the single most effective addition I have made to my milling system to create electrical stability both in terms of voltage and amperage. Both  are VERY good now.

Mill alternator is a 135 amp (actual output on bench test after rebuild) and this one is putting out 105 amp.







I run the little Honda at about 2000 - 2200 so the alternator should be turning at 4000 to 4400.

have to build a protective frame and add a larger fuel tank. Right now it is burning about 3 liters a day and has cut fuel burn on the mill by about 6 litres a day.

I am cutting average of 4500 to 5000 BF a day of dimensions as per the cut list I get in the morning which is pretty much 3X10, 6X8, and 6X6 in 10, 12, 14 foot lengths. Generally cut the same length for at least a week. Small end diameter is averaging about 14 inches along with a few "chop sticks" just to keep a guy humble (thanks to the $*=-=* Forestry inspectors).

Any 4X6, wind slabs, along with 1x , 2X side lumber that heads to the edger is not included in this figure and so far over 3 weeks is averaging about another 1200 to 1500BF per day. Total cut as of last Friday was 28,684 BF and have cut 24000 + this week  I am pretty happy so far but I think I can get another 1000 +/-  a day with a few efficiency improvements in material handling.

24 to 25 MBF a week is ok but i would like to get up to 30 MBF by the end of May. Pretty sure I an make it happen       
Skilled Master Sawyer. "Skilled labour don't come cheap. Cheap labour dont come skilled!
2018 F150 FX4, Husqvarna 340, 2 Logright 36 inch cant hooks and a bunch of stuff I built myself

stefan

 :D I looked at thoose pictures over and over, and i was also under the impression it was a dog.

That is a pretty clever setup.

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