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firewood lenght for a OWB

Started by muddstopper, March 30, 2013, 04:40:00 PM

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muddstopper

I am getting ready to put my processor together and am trying to determine what length splitting cylinder I need to buy. I split my own wood 20-24 inches in length, but was wondering what would be the ideal length for a OWB. I am thinking a 36in stroke, but just wondering if OWB owners even want wood that long.

thecfarm

Depends,always does right? Might be a good option to have. How much of a bother would it be to make it like that?
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

gspren

  Even though my stove will take 44"+ wood I still mostly cut 20" because it's then easy to throw in 2 rows.
Stihl 041, 044 & 261, Kubota 400 RTV, Kubota BX 2670, Ferris Zero turn

muddstopper

Depends, depends. Lots of variables. Its not a problem to use a longer cylinder, just need more Hbeam. I have a 20ft piece to work with.

OWB's are just now getting popular in my area, but those folks selling firewood can only split up to 24in in their splitters. I think having the ability to split longer wood might be an advantage. I also know that my personal stove will take 36in wood, but I dont use it because its just harder to load than the short stuff. Longer wood should take less time to split and mean less saw cuts making the blocks. I guess I really need input from someone that uses a OWB and get their opinions on the length of wood they prefer.

thecfarm

If I had a way to split 4 foot wood I would do it. My OWB will take a 54 inch stick. I do as gspren does,2 rows,2 feet because that is all my wood splitter will do. If cutting limb wood I do it long,but not the bigger stuff. If I was buying wood and someone could split it down to about 6 inches that would be great for me. But I have my own trees to cut.
Yes,if I had a OWB that took 36 inch wood I would buy it,if I was a buying.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

doctorb

I like 20 - 22 inches.  I can handle the weight of larger pieces, and my 2300 burns back to front. It seems to work better when the rear air passages are not covered with long logs extending that far back. I certainly put longer logs in, but, if I order wood, I ask for 20 - 22 inch.
My father once said, "This is my son who wanted to grow up and become a doctor.  So far, he's only become a doctor."

chevytaHOE5674

My stove will take something like a 44" stick. I cut almost everything in the 36" range as it gives a little bit of "fudge" room in case there are coals built up in the back or something.

beenthere

If you are putting up wood for sale, will those who want it longer than say 20" pass you by and go buy from someone selling longer wood?
Or will more customers pass you by if your wood is too long for them, and go buy it from someone else that makes say 20" wood? 

Seems less risk of losing a customer in need of wood, if you go with shorter. i.e shorter unlimited customers, but longer your customer base is limited somewhat.

However, having a machine built to adjust to a longer length might be a wise decision when at the design stage. Seems would be just a simple matter of adjusting the wedge position and a stop to keep the pusher/ram from going into the wedge.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

MapleNut

My stove will take a stick over 50". I don't cut anything longer than about 40", and I don't split hardly anything-I cut the bigger pieces shorter.  For me, the bigger the better, as long as my back doesn't object!
2005 WM LT40HDG28, 5500 IRON MULE, 272,262,046, & A PIC!

r.man

My friend would prefer 36+ wood if he could get it. Unsplit as well but the other thing to consider with a processor is the handling equipment for the blocks. All well and good to cut 40 inch blocks because the saw doesn't care but what about the outfeed conveyor?
Life is too short or my list is too long, not sure which. Dec 2014

DR_Buck

Quote from: MapleNut on March 30, 2013, 11:38:11 PM
My stove will take a stick over 50". I don't cut anything longer than about 40", and I don't split hardly anything-I cut the bigger pieces shorter.  For me, the bigger the better, as long as my back doesn't object!

Two Rules for Firewood:

    -  It has to fit in the door of the OWB
    -  I have to be able to lift it.

;D
Been there, done that.   Never got caught [/b]
Retired and not doing much anymore and still not getting caught

muddstopper

I dont think designing the machine to split longer wood is a bad thing. Nothing says that if have to split long wood just because I can. Having the ability to split longer wood should be a selling point and is certainly a nitch that no-one around here can currently offer. Good points about the conveyor, thats something I had'nt considered.

Right now, I dont have any real intentions of going into the selling of firewood. I am building this processor mostly for my own use. Since this is a considerable investment, I am thinking about trying to recoup some of the cost by splitting firewood for other people. Lots of folks are going to burning wood but not everybody has a splitter or is even willing to do the labor involved in splitting wood themselfs. They will buy wood already split delivered and stacked. Others will buy log lengths to cut and split. Those that are wanting to burn wood and are willing to buy a truck load of logs, but dont have the equipment, or are to lazy to do the cutting and splitting themselfs are the folks I intend to do business with.

I know most say they just throw in unsplit wood when they can, but handling long stuff is pretty hard to do if it has any size to it.  I wonder if the wood was split longer and smaller in dia so as to be easier to handle, would you then prefer to use the longest lengths possible? Or would you stay with short and big? Personally I prefer long and light because I can get more wood in the stove that way.

Corley5

My OWB has a 44" firebox.  I keep my wood 16-20" long and double stack it in the firebox.  I've had a couple OWB wood clients that wanted wood longer than my 14-12 will produce and took shorter wood instead.  They were happier with shorter lengths  :)
Burnt Gunpowder is the Smell Of Freedom

muddstopper

Quote from: DR_Buck on March 31, 2013, 09:31:11 AM

Two Rules for Firewood:

    -  It has to fit in the door of the OWB
    -  I have to be able to lift it.

;D

This brings up another question, just how big is the loading door on OWB's.

Gary_C

Quote from: muddstopper on March 31, 2013, 10:39:57 AM
I dont think designing the machine to split longer wood is a bad thing.

Yes it can be a problem. With a longer stroke you also get longer cycle times. And if you set up an intermediate stop for shorter wood, you then get the ability to wreck your own splitter.  ::)
Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.

thecfarm

I have a heatmor,door is 18X20. If I was buying wood and they said 2 feet or 4 feet I would take the 4 feet,BUT I would want it no bigger than 6 inches.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Corley5

Mine's 20 inches square.  A chunk of wood that diameter and 16-20" long is pretty DanG heavy and a danger to the loader's fingers  ;D
Burnt Gunpowder is the Smell Of Freedom

muddstopper

Quote from: Gary_C on March 31, 2013, 11:39:30 AM
Quote from: muddstopper on March 31, 2013, 10:39:57 AM
I dont think designing the machine to split longer wood is a bad thing.

Yes it can be a problem. With a longer stroke you also get longer cycle times. And if you set up an intermediate stop for shorter wood, you then get the ability to wreck your own splitter.  ::)

Gary, I think if you are splitting longer wood, then the cycle times should be longer as well. I am not sure I agree with you on wrecking the splitter if I use some sort of intemediate stop. I guess i need more info as to your thoughts on this. Let me describe how I intend to build this thing first though so you will know what I have planned.

My current plans are to build this splitter using the 36in stoke cylinder. Since most of the wood I intend to split will be much shorther than this, and this will be a splitter mounted on a processor, I intend to use a short 12in cylinder just to advance the splitting beam out the additional 12 inches when I split the longer wood. I will be using some sort of positive stop welded to the processor and use a detent relief to stop the retraction of the cylinder when it gets back past where the saw will be. This should work the same way as it would if I was using a shorter cylinder and it stops after fully retracting and bottoms out inside the cylinder. Pressure on the detent relief would be set just high enough to get the cylinder to fully retract before the detent kicks out. I fail to see how this could wreck my splitter, but do want to hear your thoughts on this.

Gary_C

I am not quite sure of what you are describing with that 12 inch cylinder, but if you are going to some how prevent the 36 inch stroke from returning all the way, that would be somewhat less prone to damaging the splitter. But you still have to look at the "what if's" very carefully because Murphy's Law will still apply.
Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.

Sonofman

My owb will take about 28". That does not mean I feed it that. As many have said, I have to be able to lift it. I am more vunerable than most as I have no powered equipment to handle the wood, only my saws and splitter. My splitter will do 25 inches, but I have to limit rounds to about 22' so I am sure they will fit the splitter. It has to be light enough for me to handle. This means as the length gets longer, the size of the chunk has to be smaller. I see this as a tradeoff and I have not found the sweet spot yet, as this is my first year with the owb. I have not started burning wood that was cut and split with the owb in mind yet.

It is better to have capacity you do not use than to need it and not have it.
Located due west of Due West.

muddstopper

I try to clear up the 12in cylinder part first. Usually with a wood processor, wood is measured either by eyeball to a drooping chain or a positive stop. You run the log out to this reference devise, stop the log and then saw the block. The block falls into the splitter and then split with the cylinder retracting automaticly by use of a control valve with detent. When the cylinder fully retracts, pressure is built up in the detent and it disengages the control valve, stopping the cylinder. If you have looked at a processor, all of this is probably obvious to you already. I do not plan on trying to improve a proven design that seems to satisfy everyone else.

Here is where the 12in cylinder come into play. The saw position, conveyor and everything else is pretty well in fixed positions, so adjusting to cut longer wood by moving these parts to accomodate the longer wood would be pretty hard to do. On the other hand, the cylinder  and splitting wedge and hbeam are all connected together and this is where all the stress is when splitting the blocks. The addition of a 12in cylinder between the hbeam and frame of the processor would allow for the entire splitting assembly to be extened an additional 12 inches, while not messing with the conveyor or saw part of the assembly. The only additional stress applied to the entire processor would be upon the retraction of the splitting cylinder as it builds pressure to release the detent of the control valve. Now the only problem I see with this would be when splitting the shorter wood since the splitting cylinder would stop 12 inches before full retraction. If the detent failed, this could cause the retracting much larger splitting cylinder to rip the much smaller 12 in cylinder from its mounting point or pull the shaft out of it all together. This could possibly be overcome by using some type of relief valve on the small cylinder so that instead of ripping it off, it would simply extend.  Splitting full 36in wood would be the same bottoming out of the cylinder at full retraction as if I had used a smaller cylinder with the same splitting valve. To make sure that there is something to stop the cylinder from fully retracting when I am splitting shorter wood, I would mount, either by weld or bolt, some sort of positive stop behind the pusher plate so that the cylinder will stop at the same location for the next block to be sawed reguardless of whether I am splitting 2 ft or 3 ft wood. In the event that I find the positive retraction stops proves to not to be adequate in stopping the cylinder, there are collars that can be placed on the cylinder shaft that does the same thing. I dont like them because they eventually beatup the end of the cylinder tube causing seal leaks, but thats another story.

I hope this explanation makes it clearer for you.

Ivan49

Quote from: muddstopper on March 31, 2013, 08:34:42 PM
I try to clear up the 12in cylinder part first. Usually with a wood processor, wood is measured either by eyeball to a drooping chain or a positive stop. You run the log out to this reference devise, stop the log and then saw the block. The block falls into the splitter and then split with the cylinder retracting automaticly by use of a control valve with detent. When the cylinder fully retracts, pressure is built up in the detent and it disengages the control valve, stopping the cylinder. If you have looked at a processor, all of this is probably obvious to you already. I do not plan on trying to improve a proven design that seems to satisfy everyone else.

Here is where the 12in cylinder come into play. The saw position, conveyor and everything else is pretty well in fixed positions, so adjusting to cut longer wood by moving these parts to accomodate the longer wood would be pretty hard to do. On the other hand, the cylinder  and splitting wedge and hbeam are all connected together and this is where all the stress is when splitting the blocks. The addition of a 12in cylinder between the hbeam and frame of the processor would allow for the entire splitting assembly to be extened an additional 12 inches, while not messing with the conveyor or saw part of the assembly. The only additional stress applied to the entire processor would be upon the retraction of the splitting cylinder as it builds pressure to release the detent of the control valve. Now the only problem I see with this would be when splitting the shorter wood since the splitting cylinder would stop 12 inches before full retraction. If the detent failed, this could cause the retracting much larger splitting cylinder to rip the much smaller 12 in cylinder from its mounting point or pull the shaft out of it all together. This could possibly be overcome by using some type of relief valve on the small cylinder so that instead of ripping it off, it would simply extend.  Splitting full 36in wood would be the same bottoming out of the cylinder at full retraction as if I had used a smaller cylinder with the same splitting valve. To make sure that there is something to stop the cylinder from fully retracting when I am splitting shorter wood, I would mount, either by weld or bolt, some sort of positive stop behind the pusher plate so that the cylinder will stop at the same location for the next block to be sawed reguardless of whether I am splitting 2 ft or 3 ft wood. In the event that I find the positive retraction stops proves to not to be adequate in stopping the cylinder, there are collars that can be placed on the cylinder shaft that does the same thing. I dont like them because they eventually beatup the end of the cylinder tube causing seal leaks, but thats another story.

I hope this explanation makes it clearer for you.

I like this idea. Are you going to have some sort of a way to lock your beam in place so as you are splitting it is not putting a lot of pressure on the 12 cylinder while you are splitting. I wish I had thought of that when I built mine. I have a 36 inch cylinder also  and I have no way of adjusting the splitting length. I hope you can understand what I am trying to sat :D

Logging logginglogging

Quote from: doctorb on March 30, 2013, 09:14:19 PM
I like 20 - 22 inches.  I can handle the weight of larger pieces, and my 2300 burns back to front. It seems to work better when the rear air passages are not covered with long logs extending that far back. I certainly put longer logs in, but, if I order wood, I ask for 20 - 22 inch.

I agree That is the length i cut all my wood at as well and find that it works best that way.

muddstopper

Ivan, all the pressure of splitting the wood is on the hbeam and splitter cylinder. All the small cylinder does is slide the hbeam into position, so their should not be any pressure exerted on the small cylinder while doing the splitting. The only outside stress on the small cylinder will be when the splitter retracts and hits the positive stops for proper pusherplate location for the next block to be sawn. These stops will be mounted on the frame of the processor. This stress will be limited according to the pressure settings on the detent of the control valve. Of course, it the pressure is set to high, or the dentent fails, well that little cylinder is going to get ripped apart. I will probably make the rear mount for the small cylinder a bolt on item and use small bolts that would allow them to shear instead of pull the little cylinder apart. It shouldnt take much strenght to simply slide the entire splitter assembly forward 12 inches.

It seems that many folks have different opinons on what lenght of wood they prefer. The cost difference for me to use the longer cylinder isnt that great, especially if I can find a good used cylinder, so I think I am going to go ahead with my plan to prepare to split longer wood, even if there isnt that much demand for it. I think if the wood is split small enough so that it can be more easily thrown in the stove, some folks will go for the longer wood. Not every person has a big burley man around to handle the heavy stuff to keep the stove fed.

DeerMeadowFarm

I just returned from a trip to Germany. They cut their wood long there; 1 meter. My buddy told me that wood is sold by the meter; that is 1m x 1m x 1m (roughly half a cord?). He said that most people then cut that in half if they have small stoves or burn it full length if they have bigger whole house boilers. It seems like the wood they burn is a soft wood for the most part.

I took a picture out the window of my buddy's apartment of his nieghbor moving a pile of wood. Not sure why he didn't have the trailer hooked to a vehicle, but to each his own I guess....

 

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