iDRY Vacuum Kilns

Sponsors:

What makes a good saw mill?

Started by JimFX, March 29, 2013, 06:57:38 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

JimFX

Hello
I am new to this forum and this is post #1 !!!

I am looking to get a sawmill and I have only a glimmer of knowledge in this area so .....
What makes a saw mill good? Obviously it kind of depends on what you are sawing however there are some basic must haves I'm sure. I plan on cutting logs up to 34" by 12 foot long as a max. Why 34? Cause the old oak by the house had to go and it is 34". This will be more of a hobby than a full time job and I will be doing this solo.
My darling wife says "you can get whatever you want, just don't ask me to help you mill."
Fair enough .....

So any suggestions from the seasoned folks out there?
Thanks
Jim

mad murdock

A good sawyer is the most important ingredient IMO, beyond that, a properly maintained and looked after mill, regardless of design. If you are asking advice on the kind of mill, I would ask a few questions of you first. 1-what will be your average size log/species you look forward to milling? 2-what kind of end product are you looking to produce? 3-(prolly most important) what is your budget?
I see from your OP that you kind of answered 1 and 2 a little, a follow on question is what is your general age, health condition? If you plan on sawing by yourself you will want some type of power assist, tho be warned, the more you look for as features the more it costs. You generally will get more mill per dollar spent looki g at used ones.
Turbosawmill M6 (now M8) Warrior Ultra liteweight, Granberg Alaskan III, lots of saws-gas powered and human powered :D

mad murdock

BTW welcome to the Forestry Forum!
Turbosawmill M6 (now M8) Warrior Ultra liteweight, Granberg Alaskan III, lots of saws-gas powered and human powered :D

clww

Many Stihl Saws-16"-60"
"Go Ask The Other Master Chief"
18-Wheeler Driver

lyle niemi

Last year I pulled an old circle mill out of the bush, only took me a little over a year to get things in order..lol

thecfarm

JimFX,welcome to the forum. Depends. Have $40,000 or $6,000 to spend?   :D  I just have an all manual mill. One reason I did not have 40,000.  :D  The big reason I had and have no plans to saw for others. There are many mills under the 40,000 price too. I have no idea the shows in your area but that is a big help to go to them and see them in action. What's the plan for all of the lumber? There is alot to sawing,like support equipment too.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

bandmiller2

Welcome Jim,A 34"x12'  log is alot of weight to handle and is something you don't want to plop down on a bargan priced mill,many won't handle a log that diameter.Do you have equipment to move a log that size.?I'd look into the swing mills like Peterson or Lucas they shine on the big stuff. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

dgdrls

Welcome to the FF, best site on the Net!!
You have a big question!. 
First, I suggest you think about what you want those
big Oaks logs to be,

From there you have at least 4 paths to consider.
Stationary traditional circle mill.
Band mill, stationary or mobile,
Swing mill
Dimension mill.

All have their strengthens and all will saw logs with their own steps.

Estimate your budget, as others point out, do you have $6K or $40K to work with??
Do some research, use the vendor links here on the site and watch Youtube,   

And of-course, ask lots of questions here.

Best
DGDrls




mikeb1079

if you're planning on this just being a hobby i would recommend a manual mill within your price range BUT with the largest motor you can afford.  hp is always helpful when milling.  as for that large oak i'd say just quarter it/split it with a chainsaw and then get the quartered pieces up on your mill, they'll be far easier to mill and move if you break em down first.

as far as mill manufacturers there's many out there and i really don't think you can go wrong with any of the well known makers. 
that's why you must play di drum...to blow the big guys mind!
homebuilt 16hp mill
99 wm superhydraulic w/42hp kubota

justallan1

Welcome to the forum JimFX.
I'd suggest taking a look at how many logs you have that are 34". If it's going to be a hobby and you only have 1 or 2 logs that big it may not be cost affective.
What I did is look at what I can get to saw, what it's main purposes are, what other equiptment I will need and where and if I could actually sell what I saw.
I think a good part of the whole thing is figuring all this out. Good luck.
Allan

WDH

It takes really big equipment to pick up and handle a 34" log that is 12 foot long.  The tractor or other piece of mobile equipment that you will need to do that will cost more than the sawmill.  I would set my sights on logs that are more in the 24" range. 
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Dan_Shade

for one log, i'd look into an alaskan mill.

http://www.baileysonline.com/itemdetail.asp?item=46778&catID=

finding a local portable sawyer may work well for you too.

I started with an alaskan, and ended up with an LT40, so be careful, unless this is your plan :)
Woodmizer LT40HDG25 / Stihl 066 alaskan
lots of dull bands and chains

There's a fine line between turning firewood into beautiful things and beautiful things into firewood.

Ianab

Certainly check out swing blade mills. Able to handle those logs (and much bigger) and you can set up the mill around a large log where it's laying. Much easier than trying to load a couple of tons of log on to a manual mill.
They are easy enough to operate alone, but you can saw 2X the amount with a good helper. It's common enough for a husband / wife team to have the lady sawing as thats the easy part (physically) and the guy doing the off bearing which is where you can work up a sweat ;)

Ian
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

mad murdock

Dan that was my thought exactly, if you don't know which way to go, and want to tackle a larger log on a budget, IF you already have a saw or three, a CSM is a good idea.  Baileys has good pricing on the Granberg (Alaskan) line and a smoking sale right now on the Logosol Timberjig. I think I am going to spri g for one of those myself. Whichever way you choose Jim, be warned, you are about to come down with a severe case of SIB(sawdust in blood). ;D
Turbosawmill M6 (now M8) Warrior Ultra liteweight, Granberg Alaskan III, lots of saws-gas powered and human powered :D

JimFX

Quote from: mad murdock on March 29, 2013, 07:20:32 PM
1-what will be your average size log/species you look forward to milling? 2-what kind of end product are you looking to produce? 3-(prolly most important) what is your budget?
I see from your OP that you kind of answered 1 and 2 a little, a follow on question is what is your general age, health condition? If you plan on sawing by yourself you will want some type of power assist, tho be warned, the more you look for as features the more it costs. You generally will get more mill per dollar spent looki g at used ones.

Well this was quite a welcome from all who posted .... thanks!
I am happy to have found this forum!!!

Now to answer your questions ...
I don't really have a size or species yet because I have no mill or experience however,
If I go by what is around me the answer would be Oak & Hickory.
The size I would guess less that 34"
End product - maybe selling lumber and possibly making some furniture for myself.
I don't have visions of making a lot of $$$ from this really just cutting wood is the joy.
If I happen to find an outlet for my lumber on a regular basis that would be sweet.
Health - good as of now and I do enjoy the mechanical advantage so hydraulics are nice.
That said I am on the budget end so less that $10K is probably realistic.
: )
Jim

JimFX

Quote from: thecfarm on March 29, 2013, 07:40:08 PM
JimFX,welcome to the forum. Depends. Have $40,000 or $6,000 to spend?   :D  I just have an all manual mill. One reason I did not have 40,000.  :D  The big reason I had and have no plans to saw for others. There are many mills under the 40,000 price too. I have no idea the shows in your area but that is a big help to go to them and see them in action. What's the plan for all of the lumber? There is alot to sawing,like support equipment too.

Amen brother .... on the additional equipment. Its just like anything else there is always something else to get.
I don't know of any shows in northern IL but I would love to go to one.
I saw a logosol many years back at a woodshow and I have thought about it every since.
It looked like a great product but it seemed to "waste" a lot of wood by making sawdust.

JimFX

Quote from: dgdrls on March 29, 2013, 08:43:12 PM
Welcome to the FF, best site on the Net!!
You have a big question!. 
From there you have at least 4 paths to consider.
Stationary traditional circle mill.
Band mill, stationary or mobile,
Swing mill
Dimension mill.

All have their strengthens and all will saw logs with their own steps.

Best
DGDrls


This was good, I never knew about Swing Mills or Dimensional Mills.
The Swing mill seems like an accident waiting to happen ... or maybe that is just me.
The Dimensional mill is kinda cool but you can't mill a big slab ... which I don't know if I would really do.
The Chainsaw mill seems to waste a lot in sawdust.
and the Bandsaw mill is nice but can get expensive quick.

So that said I kinda like the Dimensional and Bandsaw mills.
What are the major pro's or Con's of these that are important?

JimFX

Quote from: mikeb1079 on March 29, 2013, 09:12:36 PM
if you're planning on this just being a hobby i would recommend a manual mill within your price range BUT with the largest motor you can afford.  hp is always helpful when milling.  as for that large oak i'd say just quarter it/split it with a chainsaw and then get the quartered pieces up on your mill, they'll be far easier to mill and move if you break em down first.

as far as mill manufacturers there's many out there and i really don't think you can go wrong with any of the well known makers.

Well a hobby for now is how it will start, but I like options to add like  ... Hydraulics on the BSM
Big motor seems like a find idea the extra $ to do that seem like a no brainer ... assuming one has the money of course.

JimFX

Quote from: justallan1 on March 29, 2013, 09:18:59 PM
Welcome to the forum JimFX.
I'd suggest taking a look at how many logs you have that are 34". If it's going to be a hobby and you only have 1 or 2 logs that big it may not be cost affective.
What I did is look at what I can get to saw, what it's main purposes are, what other equipment I will need and where and if I could actually sell what I saw.
I think a good part of the whole thing is figuring all this out. Good luck.
Allan

.... and there is a lot to figure out as you all well know, so I am glad I found this list!

JimFX

Quote from: WDH on March 29, 2013, 09:22:08 PM
It takes really big equipment to pick up and handle a 34" log that is 12 foot long.  The tractor or other piece of mobile equipment that you will need to do that will cost more than the sawmill.  I would set my sights on logs that are more in the 24" range.

This is so true .... my tractor can roll the 34" log but not lift it so I understand your comment to the fullest.
But this 34" log is not slated for the mill until I have cut quite a few practice logs.

JimFX

Quote from: Dan_Shade on March 29, 2013, 09:24:08 PM
for one log, i'd look into an alaskan mill.

http://www.baileysonline.com/itemdetail.asp?item=46778&catID=

finding a local portable sawyer may work well for you too.

I started with an alaskan, and ended up with an LT40, so be careful, unless this is your plan :)

Thanks for the link but somehow I see myself following your route and wanting something a bit more robust probably 1/2 way thru the first log  ....so I figured I may as well go 1/2 way there to start.

JimFX

Quote from: Ianab on March 29, 2013, 09:39:30 PM
Certainly check out swing blade mills. Able to handle those logs (and much bigger) and you can set up the mill around a large log where it's laying. Much easier than trying to load a couple of tons of log on to a manual mill.
They are easy enough to operate alone, but you can saw 2X the amount with a good helper. It's common enough for a husband / wife team to have the lady sawing as thats the easy part (physically) and the guy doing the off bearing which is where you can work up a sweat ;)

Ian

I see the advantage to what you are saying but it seems overly dangerous. Or is this first impression a bit skewed from watching one you tube video???

Magicman

Welcome to the Forestry Forum,    JimFX. 

Your budget dictates a smaller bandmill, but do not feel shackled to that.  There are many entry level sawmill owners here who do just fine sawing.  I really hate to use the term entry level, but that only describes the price range and the log handling limitations.  They produce high quality lumber the same as the highest priced units.  Just slower and more labor intensive.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Ianab

Quote from: JimFX on March 30, 2013, 08:24:02 PM
Quote from: Ianab on March 29, 2013, 09:39:30 PM
Certainly check out swing blade mills.


I see the advantage to what you are saying but it seems overly dangerous. Or is this first impression a bit skewed from watching one you tube video???

The bigger circle blade may appear a bit more intimidating, but in reality it's inside the mill frame, and you stay outside. There is no reason to get any body part near the sharp bits. The big spinning piece of steel also tends to keep onlookers at a safe distance as well. ;)

Ian
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

JimFX

Quote from: mad murdock on March 29, 2013, 10:28:36 PM
Dan that was my thought exactly, if you don't know which way to go, and want to tackle a larger log on a budget, IF you already have a saw or three, a CSM is a good idea.  Baileys has good pricing on the Granberg (Alaskan) line and a smoking sale right now on the Logosol Timberjig. I think I am going to spri g for one of those myself. Whichever way you choose Jim, be warned, you are about to come down with a severe case of SIB(sawdust in blood). ;D

Mad, Mad Murdock you hit the nail right on the head.
The first time I saw a logosol mill I thought "this is so frigin cool I could really mill my own lumber!
Thanks for the feed back.

thecfarm

What makes a good saw mill? a good sawyer. Any mill can saw bad lumber. All have limitations. Well,most of ones the members have. Whatever we have we all use it the way it was meant to be used. Some may saw fast,some slow,some may saw long,some short,some bigger,some smaller,some may not need a cant dog or peavey to turn the log. But they can all make good lumber with a good sawyer or bad lumber with a bad sawyer. All will have problems some day. Some you may have to modify to fit your needs. But what ever you buy you will be happy with.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

JimFX

Quote from: Magicman on March 30, 2013, 08:36:29 PM
Welcome to the Forestry Forum,    JimFX. 

Your budget dictates a smaller bandmill, but do not feel shackled to that.  There are many entry level sawmill owners here who do just fine sawing.  I really hate to use the term entry level, but that only describes the price range and the log handling limitations.  They produce high quality lumber the same as the highest priced units.  Just slower and more labor intensive.

That is what I kinda figured ... I was thinking used but for me that seemed kind a recipe for failure for the first saw. I thought I have to get some sawdust on my boots so I have some idea of what might be a good deal and what is just going to be a lot of work to fix up.

JimFX

As an aside, the guys who felled the tree had one nice cant hook ... he hooked it on the trunk and hung on it.
I would have fallen on my butt with my Norther Tool Version ... }: (
He had it hand made in Mexico

My point .... nothing like a good tool to do the job, hence my post here about what makes a good saw Mill.

thecfarm

If you would of added the n in northern toolhttps://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=position"> Note:Please read the Forestry Forum's postion on this company you would of seen it. Logrite on the left is a sponsor,you will need one.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Magicman

There is only one cant hook that can and it's a Logrite.  :)

The other cant hook can't.   :-\
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

WDH

If you get a mill, you must get a Logrite cant hook or two. 
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

beenthere

Quote from: thecfarm on March 30, 2013, 09:04:24 PM
What makes a good saw mill? a good sawyer. Any mill can saw bad lumber. All have limitations. Well,most of ones the members have. Whatever we have we all use it the way it was meant to be used. Some may saw fast,some slow,some may saw long,some short,some bigger,some smaller,some may not need a cant dog or peavey to turn the log. But they can all make good lumber with a good sawyer or bad lumber with a bad sawyer. All will have problems some day. Some you may have to modify to fit your needs. But what ever you buy you will be happy with.

Those are wise words, IMO. Well said thecfarm
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

moandrich

Our last mill was a woodmizer lt30, with a little patience you can find these cheap.  Great mill with the same structure as there big brother.  I would buy another one in a second, I was sad to see ours go, our new mill is great and much faster but there is many things that can go wrong with it.
woodmizer lt 40HD  2007
Kubota RTVX1100 2019
Kubota L3940   2009

Thank You Sponsors!