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Need advice on re pinning steering pins in c5

Started by logman81, March 19, 2013, 09:34:13 AM

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logman81

Ok guy's my c5 needs new pins in the steer both have play. Where it connects to the rear frame the hole is oblong. Not sure if the one inside the machine is oblong prolly is to. My question is how to fix this? Do I order new oem pins and hone out the holes and weld in steel bushings that have the correct ID as the new pins?
Precision Firewood & Logging

newstick

Yes or if you have a machine shop in the area they could build the new bushings and pins for you.
Im am owner operator of Newberg Forest Products.We are a convental logging company with a Timbco feller buncher, two John Deere skidders , a strokeboom delimber, and a Serco log loader with circle slasher saw.
In the summer time my other company builds Handcrafted Log Homes. I love the woods!

logman81

Thanks newstick I may do that, does any one know what is suppose to be in it for pins and bushings? Seems the pin setup is jury riged looking for pics of how it is suppose to be thanks.
Precision Firewood & Logging

snowstorm

look into pin expanders. think thats what they call them. cat dealer up here has them. its a pin and bushing that will conform to the non round hole

John Woodworth

Before you go to making bushings, check that it isn,t supposed to use Torington self centering bushings,usualy a 1" pin and about 3" OD on bushing.
Two Garret 21 skidders, Garret 10 skidder, 580 Case Backhoe, Mobile Dimension sawmill, 066, 046 mag, 044, 036mag, 034, 056 mag, 075, 026, lewis winch

rick f

A friend of mine was talking the other day about his center pins being sloppy. Another friend said he got some 2 part epoxy made a dam under the pin and poured the epoxy in around the pin. He claims he has done it on about 3 machines and never had another problem. I think he said it was made by lock-tite company.
Take it for what you paid for it :D
664 clark skidder
1- 562 husky
1- 254xp husky
1 - 268xp husky
1250 JD farm tractor with skid winch
5040 kubota farm tractor

lumberjack48

Usually its the bottom pin that its oblong first, where the back of the skidder goes together with the front on the bottom pin, the ware should be on the bottom ear off the skidder. My S8 had the same problem, the top pin was good. The only place that was oblong was the bottom ear, it had wore though the bushing, this meant i was going to have to resize the hole, it had gone to far. So i welded the bottom ear to the pin, no more play, i ran it 7 yrs before i had to put pins in. It didn't cost me anymore, the only one i had to cut out was the bottom ear, which i had to do anyway.
I don't know how bad your pins are.
Third generation logger, owner operator, 30 yrs felling experience with pole skidder. I got my neck broke back in 89, left me a quad. The wife kept the job going up to 96.

logman81

It is steering cylinder pins, there pretty worn about and inch of back and fourth play on both ends of the cylinder where it connects to the machine.
Precision Firewood & Logging

lumberjack48

Sorry, i better start reading a little closer. Pop it off to see how bad there wore past the bushing. I've seen some guys build it back up with a welder.
Third generation logger, owner operator, 30 yrs felling experience with pole skidder. I got my neck broke back in 89, left me a quad. The wife kept the job going up to 96.

logman81

No problem, the center pins are fine. I have at least an inch of play where the cylinder connects to the frames that is where it is oblong from what I can see. Not sure on the cylinder ends yet but I'm sure it is oblong a little there as well. Probably have to hone out the holes, weld in new bushings for new pins.
Precision Firewood & Logging

hardtailjohn

That sounds like quite a bit of play... I'd look and see if there's bushings in there already, and also if it's play in the male or female ears. Here's the link to expander... I've not used them myself, but looked into them before I decided to linebore my own pin housings on my loader. http://www.expanderamericas.com/
I'm so far behind, I think I'm ahead!

logman81

That is real neat may just be the fix for the machine thanks.
Precision Firewood & Logging

Cedar Savage

An easy fix is get a piece of carbon same diameter as hole from a machine shop....
Line up carbon pin in hole & weld around the pin, filling in the oblong hole up to the pin.
The weld will not adhere to the carbon pin, & it will slide out, grind to smooth out, around hole.
You can reweld if nessary after grinding, works on worn out loader pins  too....
"They fried the fish with bacon and were astonished, for no fish had ever seemed so delicious before."         Mark Twain

thenorthman

Quote from: Cedar Savage on March 19, 2013, 10:07:22 PM
An easy fix is get a piece of carbon same diameter as hole from a machine shop....
Line up carbon pin in hole & weld around the pin, filling in the oblong hole up to the pin.
The weld will not adhere to the carbon pin, & it will slide out, grind to smooth out, around hole.
You can reweld if nessary after grinding, works on worn out loader pins  too....

Do you mean carbide? cause carbon is just a powder(unless its in coal, graphite or charcoal form)... carbide would work though, might have to try that one of these days.  could be a little tough finding a peice long enough and of the right diameter, could always special order if needed
well that didn't work

Cedar Savage

I'm pretty sure it was carbon, maybe graphite... machine shops use it to burn holes in steel with. Its soft & mills easly, &  mainly it conducts electricty, so the weld gets right up to it, but doesn't weld to it.
I have some pieces some where, from welding whopped out C5  bottom blade pins.
It was cheap, I think the shop gave it to me on a return favor...& some shops have lots of it on hand & can cut it to whatever diameter & lenght you need on a lathe easly, as it's so soft.
"They fried the fish with bacon and were astonished, for no fish had ever seemed so delicious before."         Mark Twain

Mark K

I have mine in the shop right now repining it. Mine has self aligning bushing like someone said earlier in the ends of the cylinder. If the holes in the frame are oblonged I'd weld them up. You can talk to Davco's and ask them. They've been more than helpful on this project. Brought mine in the shop to rebush the craddle. Got more than I bargained for, my craddle fell out in two pieces. Broke at the bushings.
Husky 372's-385's,576, 2100
Treefarmer C7D
Franklin 405
Belsaw m-14 sawmill

logman81

Thanks mark I may have to give them a call. If you don't mined could you take a pic of the cylinder ends and bushings so I can see what it looks like? I'll try to put a pic up of my situation to.
Precision Firewood & Logging

thenorthman

Quote from: Cedar Savage on March 19, 2013, 11:48:44 PM
I'm pretty sure it was carbon, maybe graphite... machine shops use it to burn holes in steel with. Its soft & mills easly, &  mainly it conducts electricty, so the weld gets right up to it, but doesn't weld to it.
I have some pieces some where, from welding whopped out C5  bottom blade pins.
It was cheap, I think the shop gave it to me on a return favor...& some shops have lots of it on hand & can cut it to whatever diameter & lenght you need on a lathe easly, as it's so soft.

That would be graphite then, not many machine shops around here play with it, mostly aircraft nonsense, Shops with an EDM machine use that to electrically burn holes.
well that didn't work

logman81

Just took a closer look it does have the self aligning bushing in the cylinder seems most of the play is in the two frame halls not so much the cylinder bushing.
Precision Firewood & Logging

lumberjack48

Put the pin in the frame halls to see how much you'd have to build it up.
Third generation logger, owner operator, 30 yrs felling experience with pole skidder. I got my neck broke back in 89, left me a quad. The wife kept the job going up to 96.

Mark K

Havent figured out a way to get pics from my phone to the computer. Bushings look similar to the end of a lift arm on a tractor except smaller. Theres a ball that can pivot in there. Bushings are cheap, ones for the craddle were $40. I imagine the ones for the cylinders are cheaper yet. Id replace them if your going to pull the cylinders. I pulled my steering and blade cylinders yesterday and repacked them. They were leaking a little by the rod end. Figured I'd do them while I'm waiting for the craddle to get back from the machine shop. I built up the steering pin hole in my timberjack with a stick welder and a die grinder. Just make sure you clean the belly out before you weld.
Husky 372's-385's,576, 2100
Treefarmer C7D
Franklin 405
Belsaw m-14 sawmill

logman81

I took some pictures I will put them up in a bit.
Precision Firewood & Logging

logman81

 

  

 

here are the pics, maybe not as bad as I first thought.
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Ed_K

I bought new swivel balls and installed them in the pistons ends then used the expanders.They work great been in the skidder for 6yrs.Just need to make sure they stay tight.And grease grease grease.
Ed K

thecfarm

My Father would say just about every time that we would be greasing the equipment,"Grease is cheaper than parts" I can hear him say that every time I'm greasing.   ;D
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

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