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Protecting Lumber from Bugs

Started by Sawdust Lover, March 17, 2013, 03:39:27 PM

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Sawdust Lover

I had a customer call me and he was concerned about a small pile of fine sawdust under a slab he had bought from me. Now that I am selling large amounts of lumber and reclaimed lumber I want to protect it all from bugs. I have a solar kiln but it won't get hot enough to kill bugs. Is there something that I can spray on the woodpiles and slabs to protect it from insects?

staker

i would try Diatomaceous earth it is good for crawling insects it dries out there outer body and cuts them, ythere are two types  one for farm use for feeding and killing insects and keeping stalls fresh. the other you can buy at a hardware store for killing ants and things should says silicon dioxide and diatomaceous earth.  Not sure if it would dull tools.

Dave

pineywoods

Quote from: Sawdust Lover on March 17, 2013, 03:39:27 PM
I had a customer call me and he was concerned about a small pile of fine sawdust under a slab he had bought from me. Now that I am selling large amounts of lumber and reclaimed lumber I want to protect it all from bugs. I have a solar kiln but it won't get hot enough to kill bugs.

What kind of solar kiln ? Mine gets 160-170 degrees easily. Neighbor sawyer has a duplicate of mine, it blew the 180 degree  thermal fuses on the fans
1995 Wood Mizer LT 40, Liquid cooled kawasaki,homebuilt hydraulics. Homebuilt solar dry kiln.  Woodmaster 718 planner, Kubota M4700 with homemade forks and winch, stihl  028, 029, Ms390
100k bd ft club.Charter member of The Grumpy old Men

Tree Feller

The max heat of a solar kiln is not the definitive measure but rather how hot for how long the lumber inside gets. Most, if not all, solar kilns will not maintain their temperature long enough to heat the lumber to 132 degrees at the core for long enough to sterilize it. Wood is a very good insulator and it requires quite a bit of time at 132 degrees to heat it all the way to the core.

Sawdust Lover, I would treat the lumber with Boracare. It will not only prevent re-infestation but will penetrate deeply enough to kill existing bugs.
Cody

Logmaster LM-1 Sawmill
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Sawdust Lover

Tree Feller, I have been doing research tonight and I saw that Boracare and read some about it. I think I will try that! Pineywoods, I have a Va tech kiln like yours but I dont have the black tin on the inside of the collector. My kiln was up and running late last fall and temps were only getting up to 120 deg. I have not yet seen what it will do in the summer heat but I dont believe it will get the wood hot enough all the way threw. I have read it needs to be 136 deg for 24 hrs and also read only 120 deg for 3 hrs will do it.

shenandoahsawmill

You might try buying dry or powdered borax. I buy it in 50 lb boxes. Mix it into solution in hot water in a garden sprayer. Put a fine mesh screen over the end of the pic-up tube in the bottom of the sprayer as not all of the borax gets mixed into solution and the spray nozzle will clog unless you have a screen to keep out the powder that does not disolve. This will save huge $ over buying someone elses premixed product. It is completely safe for the environment and you. Not so much for the powder post beetles. It will not be immediately effective. In other words it takes a couple of years to kill all the critters if you have an infestation already in the logs or lumber. One summer season on the ground and a log will almost always have an infestation started. Might be a good way to prevent infestation if you spray just after sawing a green log. I live in Northern Va. and the bugs are active Late June through Sept. If a log or board is already infested;  you will knock down the population by about 50%. after the first treatment. If you do a heavy treatment you may not need additional treatments. You will notice that by the second season you kill more bugs and by season three 100%.

GeneWengert-WoodDoc

The active ingredient in Borax is sodium tetraborate decahydrate.  The active ingredient in Boracare is Disodium Octaborate Tetrahydrate.  This difference is important and makes Boracare the product to use for insecticide and fungicide use.  It is best applied to fresh lumber, as it is in a water solution, so it will migrate in wet lumber better.  Of course, species is important, as some species (like white oak) will not allow much penetration.

Note that Boracare also has Boracare with Mold Care, a formulation for also controlling mold.  Very effective.

When mixing either product, wear eye protection for sure.  Avoid breathing the dust and digestion of more than a little bit.

Boracare cannot be sold in NY.  TimBor, a similar product, cannot be sold in NY or CT.  I do not know why.

Here is a question...If you treat some red oak lumber with Boracare and the wood is used for furniture or cabinets and is sanded, will the sanding dust be an issue because it contains Boracare?  I find the MSDS does not address this.  The advertisements talk about treating construction lumber and also treating furniture, but not lumber that will be remanufactured and dust generated.
Gene - Author of articles in Sawmill & Woodlot and books: Drying Hardwood Lumber; VA Tech Solar Kiln; Sawing Edging & Trimming Hardwood Lumber. And more

SwampDonkey

According this this bulletin from Forintek and the Canadian Wood Council, laundry Borax is a valid insecticide/fungicide treatment. They do not get specific as to products used in the study, and only mention them as sodium or zinc borates. But Borax USA is a listed source. Borax has been used successfully by some forum members. I use it to kill ant nests in the yard, has to be mixed with sugar on the hills. I believe folks use 4 gallons of hot water to a 5 lb box of Borax.

Borates are considered benign to human health. Borax is used in laundry after all.

Bulletin on Borates

In this link from Borax you'll notice the laundry version (20 Mule Team) stamped on a  photo of stacked lumber.

http://www.borax.com/markets/wood-protection-and-biocides/lumber-and-plywood

Maybe email them with an inquiry. They may suggest TimBor or something. But I would ask them straight up about Borax.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Al_Smith

Hmm I buy Boraxo by the  50 pound case to wash my greasey hands .The UPS man thinks I'm nuts .

Now what I did do once was hose a whole stickered stack of lumber down with Sevin dust and water to kill the bugs .It worked .

Now seeings there is a collection of bug experts let me pose a question .What is it about ants and fresh sawn hickory .Those little scaliwags just go bonkers over green hickory like it's candy .They aren't eating the rotten part ,the good solid stuff is what they attack . Sevin will kill them too for that matter .

SwampDonkey

Al, are they (carpenter ants) making galleries in sawed lumber? Ants don't actually eat wood. Seems odd if they are coming in after it's sawed. They'll get into sills, but if it's a bit doty. Now ash, the powder post will get to it as lumber or furniture for that matter. They have not been a problem here in my ash, not to say they won't be some day.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

lyle niemi

Ya have ta build a sign that says....NO BUGS ALLOWED!!! ;D

Al_Smith

Actually Swampish they aren't those big black carpenter ants .Medium sized red ones .Not those little pismires .The little sons-a - bees bite too .

The danged things converge on that perfectly good solid hickory by the thousands .They don't fool with oak or maple .Once the stuff dries the ants leave it alone .Odd though they don't converge on the logs but of course the ends are sealed with roof tar which I doubt seriously would be appealing to them .

Green maple draws flys ,the big greenish ones ,evidently for the sugar in the sap .

I think if I cut more hickory I might need a pet ardvark . For now the Sevin dust gets-er-done .

beenthere

Never heard of that Al.
Please show us some ant damage on the hickory. Some before (fresh cut) and after (ant dining) would be great to see.

Maybe others could experiment with some fresh sawn hickory to follow up on Al's discovery.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Al_Smith

Well unfortunately the last I cut was a bitternut that was storm damaged late last fall .By then the ants had became dorment because of cold weather .

There's about a short cord of it I have piled up yet to split .If there is any ant activity I'll get a picture of it but that probabley won't happen for another month ,6 weeks .

What hickory lumber I have was all milled in winter time and there was nothing but a few carpenter ants in it in places that were a tad deteriated .Once the logs got milled they skedaddled ,got out of Dodge so to speak .Those few that stayed around I'm pretty certain the Sevin got them .

Al_Smith

I might add it seems there has been a lot of big hickorys dying off .Have no idea why .We're talking hundred footers that appear healthy then in maybe 4 months the danged things are dead .Every one of them has ants but still have mostly nice straight logs .It's not uncommon to get easily a clear 40 footer out of them although I have no idea what in the world a person would do with a 40 foot hickory log .Make a lot of axe handles if nothing else I suppose .

ely

hickory is pretty lumber too. i have some spalted hack berry on the ceiling where i am living and there are some new castings from powder post beetles, its been up since 08, just planed and installed, never had any finnish on it.
i noticed the dust on the butt pads on a couple O/U shotguns i have leaned up by the washer.

when i saw pine that has the bore worms, flathead bores, maybe, the fire ants will travel to the pine boards and get all the worms out of it piece by piece, when the worms are gone the fireants leave too.

SwampDonkey

We have a red ant up here, it is very small. They are under rocks and rotten wood. Kick a stone over in an old pasture that has not been cultivated for a long time and they have a network of galleries under the rock. But then out in the open the black ants make huge mounds that the black bears around here rip apart. Skunks to I suppose. But those little red ants we have don't sting.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Al_Smith

These sons a bees don't sting they flat out bite you .

A couple years ago I flopped a big ash in the woods .I had to blow the top out because it would have damaged a nice walnut on the fall .

So there I was 60 feet up in a bucket truck and the danged ants tried to eat me up .Funny it had a colony of carpenter ants in the bottom and those little biters in the top .

Oddly enough just last fall on a dead hickory same thing although I dropped that whole mess from the ground .Not one usable log over 6 feet long ,firewood in that one .

thecfarm

At my other house there was alot of sand. The front lawn had sand,4 inches of loam,4 inches of sand that the ants brought up. I use to have to wet the lawn down before I mowed it or it would be a dust bowl. I was never there much,so just put up with them ants. One day I was standing on the so called lawn just looking around and something started to bite or sting me and more than one too.  :o They was up by my waist and having a good time. Houses all around me and I really did not think they would like to see me in my under wear jumping around. I headed for the house to get rid of them critters. Went right down to the hardware store and brought some stuff to get rid of them ants.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

staker

Talking about ants I have made a few ant hills move with black pepper, they don't seem to like it. I have a lot of ants at my camp as I have alot of blown tress from a tornato, wind burst they call it up here. But still the best thing I tried is the diatomaceous earth. It is called Insectigone 100% natural, effective and long lasting insect control powder. It  kills cockroaches,earwigs, ants, fleas, silverfish, crickets, millipedes,centipedes and bed bugs and any other crawling insects. as long as it cralws over the powder it will cut and dry out the outer skin of the insect and kill it. For indoor or outdoor use.

Dave

Solomon

Chloradane,  Yes it can still be had.
It kills everything.    Whatever you don't want dead you better put it up in a boarding kennal or at a friends house for a few days after using the stuff.    You wil have no bug problem for a few years. 
Time and Money,  If you have the one, you rarely have the other.

The Path to Salvation is narrow, and the path to damnnation is wide.

whynot

     Hello folks, Whynot here. I'm new to the forum, just joined. I recently starting milling my own pines into large timbers for drying and then my own timber porch and roof build. I saw the post about bug control which is a major concern. I do not have any type of shed, kiln, building of any kind for the projected three years for drying.
So, I plan on using borax for pest control, Can I get some ideas about how often I should treat them or any advice about this project?

Al_Smith

This thread is like 4 years old but since then I have about 3-3500 bd feet of rough sawn oak,ash and cherry stickered in my shop .Whatever it is,gypsy months,powder post beatles whatever evidently got into just the oak .I'm no bug expert but it did not get the cherry or ash .It's at least 10 years by now air dried all activity must have been when it was still green cut and those 12 " by 1" by 16 foot planks were about like lifting a rail road tie .

In the future I believe I'll use the sevin dust and water I had used on other stuff long after that batch of lumber was milled .

Magicman

Welcome to the Forestry Forum.

Pine should not be of any concern regarding insect infestation.  Sticker the lumber properly and cover it with metal roofing with a good overhand.  Your concern will be to prevent termites from intruding from below, so you will need some sort of shield between the lumber and whatever it is stacked on.  Flashing or strips of metal roofing will do.  I have had them to eat through roofing felt.  The key is to keep everything dry because termites need moisture.
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KirkD

Would it help to add some Borax to the recipe for blade lube? I know it would not be 100% effective but it might kill some stuff around the mill. Maybe a old kitchen blender to mix it prior to adding it to the lube tank?
Wood-mizer LT40HD-G24 Year 1989

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