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Band comparison, 1.25" and 1.5"

Started by Dave Shepard, March 17, 2013, 11:11:42 AM

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Dave Shepard

The 1.25" bands that came with my mill are pretty well used up. We ran .055" 10° and 4° WM DoubleHards. I am probably going to buy a couple of new boxes soon, and I'm thinking about switching to all 1.5" bands. What are the advantages and disadvantages of each? My primary concern is quality of cut, with band cost being much less important. I cut mostly white pine, with cherry, black locust, red and white oak, and ash being the most common hardwoods that I cut. I will stay with WM bands and ReSharp service, without question. Thanks.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

tyb525

1.5" takes more hp to turn, but it allows a faster cutting speed (lets you push them faster with less flexing).

Tom used to say an 1 1/4" band should be able to cut as straight as an 1 1/2" (until you really push them) if the mill is set up right. In fact, I think it is harder to get wider bands to cut straight, but once you do, you can really get the production out of them.

I think the main advantage is the ability to cut faster. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you need to get wider blade guides for 1.5"?
LT10G10, Stihl 038 Magnum, many woodworking tools. Currently a farm service applicator, trying to find time to saw!

Gasawyer

I run 1.5 .045 7 deg on my LT40 for cutting heart pine, white - red oak,and pine. They work great, my mill doesn't  like  1 1/4" bands at all(have to go very slowly to cut flat). I haven't found a down side to running the 1.5" bands. Haven't run any of the newer 1.5" .055, had some bad experience with the first .055s short run time compared to  .045s.
Woodmizer LT-40hdd super hyd.,Lucas 618,Lucas 823dsm,Alaskian chainsaw mill 6',many chainsaws large and small,NH L555 skidsteer, Int. TD-9,JD500 backhoe, and International grapple truck.

Bibbyman

We used a dozen or so .055 x 1.5 blades on our Super.  We used them mainly for sawing big logs with big knots. They worked well and better than .045 x 1.25.

But they are much harder to handle, uncoil, get on and off mill.  Life was half that of .045.

If we had LT70 and sawing the tough stuff, 1.5 would be the first choice.

We also used a couple of boxes of .042-45 x 1.5 in 9° Silver-tip. Sawed faster and better through knots than 1.25 and lasted much longer than 1.5.  But still hard to get on and off LT40.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
Sawing since '94

Dave Shepard

I know the .055"s don't last as long, but I'm really after performance and cut quality. I know it adds up at the end of the day, but band cost is really a small part of the equation, especially compared to labor. If I can maintain my quality, and improve cutting speed, I'm all for it. I remember reading something about being able to run 1.5" on 1.25" roller, but not the other way around. I flat pack my bands, so I don't have to coil them, but I can see where things would be a little bit more snug trying to get them on an LT40.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

mikeb1079

i've heard customsawyer mention that he runs 1.5" b/c of the increased feed speed.  as for the rollers i don't think they're that expensive maybe it' would be worth it to upgrade?
that's why you must play di drum...to blow the big guys mind!
homebuilt 16hp mill
99 wm superhydraulic w/42hp kubota

Kansas

I would go to the 1.5. I think its probably worth it for what you are trying to achieve. I would stick with the double hards. You may have to have a couple of different hook angles if white pine is in the mix.

Dave Shepard

I like 10° for white pine, 4° if it's frozen, or half-frozen. I was thinking about trying one of the new 7° profiles as well.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

Peter Drouin

Dave I can't believe you have not tried the 7s , there great, for me , 
I use 1 1/4x55x7, Im going to try the 1 1/2 x55x7, with work the way it is I need more speed :D :D
A&P saw Mill LLC.
45' of Wood Mizer, cutting since 1987.
License NH softwood grader.

Dave Shepard

Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

tyb525

I think the 7 deg is intended for fast cutting in hard wood with higher hp.
LT10G10, Stihl 038 Magnum, many woodworking tools. Currently a farm service applicator, trying to find time to saw!

Peter Drouin

All I have is 7s, they work on w pine or oak, if they wave they're dull.
Im happy with the 1 1/4 just want to see if I can go faster with the wider ones :D :D ;D
But I am staying with the .55 thick ones
A&P saw Mill LLC.
45' of Wood Mizer, cutting since 1987.
License NH softwood grader.

customsawyer

I run the 1½ on the portable mill and 1¾ on the stationary mill. The reasons for this is on the portable mill I do a fair amount of sawing by myself which don't really make your production jump but on the stationary mill I have the extra help to get the benefits out of the 1¾.
Two LT70s, Nyle L200 kiln, 4 head Pinheiro planer, 30" double surface Cantek planer, Lucas dedicated slabber, Slabmizer, and enough rolling stock and chainsaws to keep it all running.
www.thecustomsawyer.com

terrifictimbersllc

Sawed clean pine for 3 days last week using .045-1.25 7's set at .026.  One in the morning and one in the afternoon, each still doing well when I took it off at 700-1000 bf.  Customer's friends were feeling the boards.   
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

Brucer

On the LT40's, you can use the same blade guides for 1-1/4" and 1-1/2" blades. You just have to move them back slightly with the wider blades so the blades will track properly on the bandwheels.

I ran 1-1/4 x .045 x 10° b1ades for 5 years with great performance.

When a customer asked me to resaw some very dry, very wide spruce cants, the cut was like a roller coaster. I tried every trick in the book and couldn't get a straight cut. Gary at WM Canada suggested I try the new 7° blades, 1-1/2 wide and that did the trick.

Since it was a real pain shifting the rollers whenever I wanted to go from one type of blade to the other, I eventually switched to 1-1/2 x .045 x 10° blades for my regular sawing.

I found it a little harder "folding" the wider blades at first. It just meant I had to be a little more precise. However, when my friend John asked me to sharpen some of his 1-1/2" blades, he didn't mention that they were .050 thick. First attempt a folding the blade didn't work. The second attempt I snapped it down quite a bit harder -- and dislocated my bum shoulder :o :(.


Bruce    LT40HDG28 bandsaw
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand wrong answers."

Bibbyman

Now that I sharpen our own blades I don't fold and unfold them.  But I found folding the heavier blades was easier if I pushed the loop up against a log to break it over.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
Sawing since '94

Peter Drouin

Does any one have a hard time with 1 1/2"x55x7 in frozen logs.
My 1 1/4" x55x7 does good, just would like to know about the 1 1/2 blades?
A&P saw Mill LLC.
45' of Wood Mizer, cutting since 1987.
License NH softwood grader.

GDinMaine

When I bought my will it came with 1.5" .55 10 degree blades.  The previous owner only sawed in the warmer months and said he had the best luck with that.  I tried some 1.25" .55 7 and 9 degree blades and they worked well in frozen wood.  Previous owner used the wider blades with smaller rollers.  When I called WM I was told I should buy wider rollers if I use the 1.5" blades.  It supposed to keep the blades cutting straighter.
It's the going that counts not the distance!

WM LT-40HD-D42

Bibbyman

If the best is what you're after, go for the Wood-Mizer RazorTip stellite blades. 
Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
Sawing since '94

JVK

Bandblades seem to be mill and site specific. What works for me, may not work for you. Any properly sharpened and set blade will cut well in most wood. We are looking for a band that will still cut staight and true after it starts to dull. I welcome the new blade profiles coming out. It will only benefit us sawmillers.

When I got my LT50, 10 degree x 1 1/2 .050 was recommended. I ruined more wood with those blades. After a couple passes, it was ocean wave city. Lots of phone calls to WM and fine tuning the already fine tuned mill and still waves. Extremely frustrating. Maybe a bad box? I put those blades aside and went on with my search.

This is where the forestry forum comes in. Some guys on here say they have cut a bunch of wood with the 7 degree x 1 1/4 x .045. Tried some with great success. Waves on the wide cuts and when real dull. The 7 x .055 x 1 1/4 is so far the best blade for me. You have to really try to get this blade to go wavey. The 1 1/4 are easier to get on the mill. I bang every other tooth on the 1 1/2 blades. Still learning the tricks.

For now I like the 1 1/4. I have a box of 1 1/2 stellite and silver tips to try. I cut mainly red and yellow cedar, white pine, spruce and fir.

jim blodgett

Seems like the wider the blade, the more resistance it would have to tensioning, wouldn't it?  1.25" to 1.5" is a significant jump in % of steel to tension, isn't it?

Are the gullets on the teeth the same?  Is the difference in width all in the solid portion of the blade?

Seems like a well designed mill the bearings/wheels/tensioning system/powerplant/blade thickness and width would all be considered in the design.  At some point of incremental upsizing of any one part of that system you could cause damage, or at least shortened life, to other part(s).

Just one thing I didn't see mentioned in the discussion.

JVK

The gullets are the same. I think a lot of this is trial and error. It's up to us to find out what works for our situation. The WM dealer in my area says that 7 degree blades work only in hardwoods and frozen logs. With my 47 hp diesel I should be using only 1 1/2" blades. I cut only softwood and the 1 1/4" 7 degree work the best for me.

My big theory is that the 1 1/4" blade is easier to control with heat dissipation ( water ) in the wide cuts. 1 1/2" have more steel so slower to cool? I cut mainly big logs and wide cuts are the order of the day to get them broken down.

GeneWengert-WoodDoc

As the FF responses indicate and as I have seen many times, the blade that one person uses for a particular species does not always work as well for another person.  Here is my guess on why that happens...it is mill set-up, as JVK stated.

In fact, I wonder if someone who likes a 1-1/2 x .055 at 10 deg for summer white pine came to another mill (that had tried the blade but got bad results with this blade and so now uses a 1-1/4 x 0.045 at 7 degrees) and put this 1-1/2 on this mill and set the tension, etc., if indeed the blade would run well.  Anyone ever tried something along these lines?  So, is it the human part of mill set up?  Or maybe it is the manufacturer's design...are all LT-40 the same or do they also vary?

Just some thoughts I had while trying to stay warm with temperatures into the single digits and windy on the first day of spring in WI.  Some good news was unemployment in this area is around 5.5%.
Gene - Author of articles in Sawmill & Woodlot and books: Drying Hardwood Lumber; VA Tech Solar Kiln; Sawing Edging & Trimming Hardwood Lumber. And more

tyb525

I think part of it is mill set-up. I also think, if a mill was set up perfectly, a wider band will enable you to saw faster before the blade starts to cut wavy. And if your perfectly-set-up mill can't cut faster than the band can handle, I'm not sure if you're better off with a wider blade.

The other thing to consider is blade thickness. A thicker blade requires more tension (I thought???), which might make it cut straighter than a blade requiring less tension? Thicker blades also take a little bit more power to turn, and don't last quite as long before breaking.

The differences might be negligible though.
LT10G10, Stihl 038 Magnum, many woodworking tools. Currently a farm service applicator, trying to find time to saw!

Brucer

Quote from: JVK on March 20, 2013, 05:57:52 PM
... The WM dealer in my area says that 7 degree blades work only in hardwoods and frozen logs....

The WM dealer in my area says the 7 degree blades work really well in wide, dry softwoods -- especially the ones that have very hard knots.

I took his advice and he was right :).

Quote
... My big theory is that the 1 1/4" blade is easier to control with heat dissipation ( water ) in the wide cuts. 1 1/2" have more steel so slower to cool? ...

I haven't found that (same thickness and tooth angle). The wider blades should let you cut faster, which means the blade spends less time in the log heating up. One effect cancels the other.
Bruce    LT40HDG28 bandsaw
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand wrong answers."

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