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Questions about a Corley circle mill

Started by woodworker9, March 11, 2013, 07:08:58 PM

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woodworker9

I have found a Corley circle mill for sale and I'm trying to figure out the logistics of moving it.  It's about 4 hours away, so I'll probably need to hire a trucker to get it all in one scoop.

First question:

It's a left hand mill with a 15' carriage.  Are there logistical changes that should raise a concern about this mill running from left to right instead of the usual right to left.  It was powered by a 3 phase electric motor, which is not coming with me, so I will want to power it with a gas/diesel  (preferably diesel) powerplant.  Am I getting into trouble with spin direction, etc.....since it's left handed and spins the opposite direction?

2nd question:

It appears that it has 31 feet of main track with two 8 foot extensions...one for each end.  The 31 foot section is one piece so would need to hauled all at once.  The carriage, as stated, is 15 feet with 3 headblocks.

What would the 15 foot carriage weigh, approximately???  I need to know to be able to unload at this end.  The owner has the ability to load with an excavator.

3rd question;

The husk is now welded steel, but was originally a wood husk that he replace years ago with steel.  It's all welded together to the base of the track and is 11 feet wide.  Am I asking for a total nightmare by cutting that apart to be able to haul it on a trailer??  Is this a dumb thought, or is it reasonably feasible to cut it apart and then re-weld once it's here?  I have good welding equipment and skills at this end.

4th question;

I've been searching the forum and have read a few times where guys have mentioned to cut the long 31 foot track section in half to make it more manageable to move.  Is this a wise, doable event, or am I asking for operational troubles with the mill once welded back together?


I have been reading and learning on this forum for years, and thank our fearless leaders for providing such a fantastic place to learn.  I've got the circle mill fever bad, and after reading Lee's "Circle Mill Journey" thread, there will only be one cure.   I've got a lot of experience rebuilding and restoring old woodworking machines, and am looking forward to tackling a restoration and saving an awesome mill.

All your help and knowledge, and thoughts on anything you think I've missed, are greatly appreciated.

Jeff
03' LT40HD25 Kohler hydraulic w/ accuset
MS 441, MS 290, New Holland L185

Ron Wenrich

I've run right and left handed mills.  It doesn't matter from a sawing standpoint.  We have stayed with left handed mills so we could install a new mill while the old one was still cutting.  You just need to have an engine that runs in that direction.

I'm guessing the track is welded to the steel frame.  You can cut it, but you have to get that welded back together the way it was.  I'm no welder, so I don't know the logistics on that.  But, if you get it out of line, you'll have problems on the saw end.  It would be easier to get the track in line than the frame.  The older mills with wood used to have 10' sections.  The critical area is at the husk.  I would think cutting it into 3 pieces would be better, and leave the husk and the track at the husk in one piece.  Minimum would be 8' of track.

Its hard to say how heavy the carriage is without knowing what all is on it.  Is this a handmill or an automatic?  Air dogs, hand dogs, or hydraulic dogs.  Wood or steel?  Those old hand carriages were never too heavy.  Those big ones can get up to 5-6 tons. 
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

thecfarm

Sounds like quite the project. Good luck. All I can tell you,pictures,lots of pictures.  ;D
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

bandmiller2

WW9,A left hand mill lends itself well to A tractor PTO,the rotation is propper.What Ron said about cutting in three pieces is the right way leaving the section buy the husk whole and as long as possible.Figure the carriage at around a ton,track and frame it depends on what its made of.If your going to dismantle the mill take alot of pictures.Is the mill presently under a roof.?Take note of what it has for a foundation as thats the most important part of a mill.Tell us more. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

woodworker9

First attempt at posting photo's.......hope it works.  These are the pics the seller sent me.  I hope it will help answer some of my questions about moving this monster.











Extra headsaw....56" I believe



I hope this helps and works??!??
03' LT40HD25 Kohler hydraulic w/ accuset
MS 441, MS 290, New Holland L185

bandmiller2

WW9 Jeff,thats a heavy mill and looks to be in good shape, not long out of service.What will give you problems is that long arbor shaft it will get you over width.There is a truck axle under the mill,with good tires prehaps you could tow it complete,shame its such a long way home.You could get by with a shorter arbor shaft. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

Goodndusty

I agree with bandmiller.  It was made portable to start with so why not pull it?  If the mandrel is on the passenger side then all the better.  Magnetic set of towing lites, wide load signs, 2nd vehicle with 4 way flashers ahead with wide load sign.  I guess check with state laws!  Seems to me it would be a lot easier and quicker way unless it is not possible to tow.
I too have a left hand mill and love it.  The tractor pto turns the proper direction.
I like the rails on your mill.  They are perfect for heavy logs and possible hydraulic log turner.  Also the dogs don't look too hard to make hydraulic.
Good luck with your journey.
Goodndusty

Timberwolf 24' 2" band mill, logosol planer/molder, 3 sided planer/sizer, Oliver 1850 front end loader, Barko 60, H3 crawler w/1066 loader with wood clam, home built dryer, Dino semi auto setter, cat claw sharpener, Timberjack 230D.

woodworker9

The axle underneath is shot, and completely seized.  According to the present owner, it's been on there for decades and won't budge.  Besides, I've got to cross 3 states with this, and the rig is 12' wide in it's present state......that's not happening on my watch.

The only way for me to get this home is to figure out if it's reasonably feasible to disassemble/cut this rig apart into manageable sizes so that I can reassemble here.  I have no means of lifting 31 linear feet of track, steel I-beam supports, and 12' wide husk attached all at once, and I do not want a bridge building project. 

I guess what I'm asking has been refined.....How difficult is it to realign and reattach all the internal workings of the husk if it were to be taken/cut apart for hauling?

Also, for future consideration of other mills if this one falls through, are all circle mills built in such a way as to make them extremely wide loads to haul, or did some come apart in sections so that they could be hauled by a mere mortal with regular truck and trailer equipment on hand?

Thanks for the input.

Jeff
03' LT40HD25 Kohler hydraulic w/ accuset
MS 441, MS 290, New Holland L185

beenthere

Before cutting the tracks apart, drill and bolt straps on the tracks in strategic locations, such that you can put those straps back on when re-assembling. Should be pretty darn close then, when re-welding it back together.
If you have a welder that will be involved on your end, maybe review it with him and/or take him along to cut it apart.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

bandmiller2

Probibly the easiest way would be to hire a lowbead with a winch on the front of the trailer.It looks like theirs an "I" beam support under the outboard bearing and pulley that will make the load too wide.You could cut the arbor to legal width or remove the arbor.You could also look for a mill closer to home,buy the time you buy it and pay haulage you could buy a nice circular mill.Tough choices my friend. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

WH_Conley

Looks like you could take the arbor off at the bearings and then cut off the outboard support. That would be the easiest thing to weld back on with precision. Looks like that would get the width down a lot.
Bill

Dave_

Good looking mill!  If I were you, I would cut the arbor extension and mount the drive sheave closer to the husk.  That would solve your width problem.  Furthermore, it would be good form to keep the mill as aligned as possible, but, at the end of the day, you will need to completely align the mill in it's new location.  Because it's on steel, the new alignment will be pretty straight forward.  You just need to cut it down to manageable pieces and then glue it back together on the other end.  It's easy to focus on how the mill was assembled by the former redo and lose focus on the fact that it's still just a mill with a husk, carriage and track that needs to be aligned.  If you can save yourself time by prepping, then by all means do it.  But because you are dealing with steel, there is little you can do during demo that will be unmanageable at it's new home.  Obviously, the fewer the puzzle pieces, the better :)

I hope you move forward with this project and bring the old girl back on line.  Good luck!!

Ron Wenrich

Looking at the carriage, it needs another axle on the front.  I'm not sure why the setup is like it is, but I've never seen 2 sleepers on the front of the carriage.  I've seen one on front and rear.  Your longer logs won't be as good. 

I agree with cutting off the arbor extension.  Seems like the least amount of work, and probably not the most critical area. 

Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

woodworker9

Ron

The 4th axle is present with the mill....the PO just removed it when he moved the mill to it's current location......can't tell you why.

The thought of owning this mill is consuming me, so I'm going to try and get it. It's 4 hours away, and I can't get away until next week to go check it all out. The owner is trying to apply pressure by saying that he has someone else coming to look at it, as well, who wants it.  We'll just have to wait and see what happens.

A friend of mine, also a new member to this forum, owns a Corley, and I was just showing him the photo's about 30 minutes ago, as he's in for a visit from Georgia.  He reminded me of my fabrication and welding skills, and though someone else put it together......which means I can re-do the same.

If anybody who reads this is a trucker with a flatbed who wouldn't mind a hauling job, please contact me.  I hope that doesn't break a forum rule.....

Thanks for the help, and if I get it, I'll report back......otherwise the search will continue for a circle mill.

Jeff

03' LT40HD25 Kohler hydraulic w/ accuset
MS 441, MS 290, New Holland L185

dgdrls

Don't be rushed by the owner,  if your going to buy it he has to understand and work with you
to get it out safely.  That doesn't mean hacking it up with a torch.



Two thoughts you could strip off as much as you can without cutting, build a cradle and tilt the stripped unit up 45 Deg, more work and requires lumber etc.

As others have indicated, remove the arbor as required to make it width legal, load from there
a Landall style trailer with a winch would work well for this type of move.

you could also continue to shop for a
Meadows Mobile unit ;)

DGDrls



 

woodworker9

If he sells it, he sells it.  I'm not going to be hurried.......there are more circle mills out there.That meadows rig looks nice, but expensive.

Does anybody have any insight as to what this rig weighs?  Approximates are fine, but I really have no idea, since it is all one piece, with 2 other lengths of 8' track extension that are already off the mill.

Thanks.
03' LT40HD25 Kohler hydraulic w/ accuset
MS 441, MS 290, New Holland L185

bandmiller2

Jeff,so far as weight,steel suppliers have charts as to weight per foot for different sizes you can estimate it and add some, figure a ton or so plus the steel and mine rail.Any truck or trailer long enough to haul it should handle the weight.Rough estimate 4 tons. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

bandmiller2

Dg,can you bale hay with that Meadows in the summer.?? Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

woodworker9

Thanks, Frank, for the rough idea.  I know a truck can haul it....but I've got to unload it at this end, and it's one big, wieldy piece.  I know a Bobcat skidsteer isn't picking that up.
03' LT40HD25 Kohler hydraulic w/ accuset
MS 441, MS 290, New Holland L185

Fla._Deadheader


I will probably get a lot of flak, but, who cares.

I see absolutely no problem moving this mill.
First, take off the blade and bolt it right to the spare.

Second, see if the laceings can be separated on the 2 belts. If not, cut them as near at 90° as possible, so you can just relace them, IF they are not deteriorated.

Third, at each bearing, there are 2 set bolts, that are for shaft alignment. Loosen all 6 and take the shaft and set it longways on the mill so it can be firmly fastened. DO NOT lift it with a crane of some sort, by putting straps through the wheel. It's cast and they do break.

Fourth, cut that extension off.

Depending on the rig to move the mill, you may want to run the carriage off. Just take some timbers with you to do that. As far as I can remember, it's been a while since I moved 3 mills, the only thing hanging down below the plane of those beams, is the feed cable drum. IF that can be worked around, all you need to do, is slide the whole mill up onto the trailer with a winch, come alongs, etc.

Don't think I am crazy. I have moved a LOT of heavy stuff, very easily, using iron pipe rollers and levers.

When you get the mill to your location, take off the carriage. Take off the mandrel and then, work the frame off the trailer. I would have a separate location to set the carriage. You will need to set up the frame first. Unload the frame as high as possible, so you don't need to raise it later on. Use plenty of cribbing.

I would take plenty of blocking, 2-3 hydraulic jacks, ropes, straps, etc. A few long beams, like 10' X maybe 5 X 5 Oak or equivalent, to run the carriage on to lighten the load for loading onto the trailer.

Looks like that axle is welded on with way more bead than is needed. That should come off if it's at all possible. If not, use it to gauge propping up the frame, so you don't hang up on the cable feed drum.

I would have no less than 2 helpers that are mechanically adept, so they don't screw up and break things.

It's hard to tell what the mill is sitting on, but, when you get ready to load it, you just need a way to get the end raised enough to get the trailer started under the frame. From there, it's just go slow and pay attention.

This is a perfect example of brains over braun. There is no reason to not be able to do what I just wrote. It will be a long day, but successful. IF possible, you could make 2 trips, the first to take things apart, analyze the situation, and make a plan, then, the second trip loading the frame. You could even use a flatbed to haul the carriage and mandrel home on the first trip. Then, arrange for the trailer, IF you don't want to cut the frame in sections.

Of course, if you are flush, hire a small crane and set it on the trailer.  ;D ;D
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

beenthere

FDH
You shouldn't get any flak from that logical plan.  8)
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Fla._Deadheader


Thanks BT. These days if one doesn't use cranes and the like, working by hand is considered impossible.

This type of work I REALLY enjoy. Keeps one on there toes, thinking, instead of wrecking stuff or getting hurt.  ;D
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

bandmiller2

Small tip Jeff if your going to unbolt the arbor shaft.Take a sharp scribe and mark the location of the pillow block bearings on the husk box.You will have to fine tune it but it will be close. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

Fla._Deadheader


If you undo just the set screws for adjustment, they all have locknuts. Just break them loose enough to unscrew the screws. Then, when setting up, you run them back snug, then lock with those nuts. You will be 98+% at least where you started from.

I would not take the bases off the husk.
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

woodworker9

I am working on a trucker with a lowboy for the haul.  Crossing 3 state lines is the fun part, I guess.  Nothing hanging off the bed, no wide loads, etc.....

Thanks for the tips, and anything that gets removed will be well marked for return to it's original position.  I have restored over 30 large, old woodworking machines, so I've got plenty of experience breaking down machinery with photo's, drawings, parts labeling, and common sense.

I need a bigger trailer......

Jeff
03' LT40HD25 Kohler hydraulic w/ accuset
MS 441, MS 290, New Holland L185

bandmiller2

Good luck on your venture Jeff,glad to hear your no pilgrim when it comes to machinery restoration. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

mikeb1079

don't mean to hijack this thread but there are some of us who are interested in seeing some pics of your restored old machines.  scratch that, probably all of us are interested in that.   :D :laugh: :laugh:
that's why you must play di drum...to blow the big guys mind!
homebuilt 16hp mill
99 wm superhydraulic w/42hp kubota

woodworker9

Quote from: mikeb1079 on March 14, 2013, 09:13:56 PM
don't mean to hijack this thread but there are some of us who are interested in seeing some pics of your restored old machines.  scratch that, probably all of us are interested in that.   :D :laugh: :laugh:

I hope this is ok to post here.....if not, please let me know where.  I lost a lot of photo's when my computer crashed, but here's a few that I still have.  I've got a local PC guru working on getting my files of the old hard drive, and I've learned my lesson about having a backup harddrive.

This is the before and After of a few machines:

1964 Powermatic 72 table saw



 




 

This is a 1947 Yates American #1 24" jointer



 



 

1945 Northfield 36" bandsaw and 1958 Yates American #1 12" jointer....in progress



 



 

I have lots more, but I've got to wait for the PC guy to save them for me.

Jeff
03' LT40HD25 Kohler hydraulic w/ accuset
MS 441, MS 290, New Holland L185

ALWOL

   Jeff, that 24" jointer looks really familiar, and very nice.

   I have moved a number of old sawmills across several states with no real drama. Looks like you have found a nice setup that's really worth putting some time into and doing right. Whatever you do, DO NOT shorten that mandrel. You will need that length to invert the engines mount and run it the proper rotation.

    Alan- another collector of owwm
There's a big difference between staying busy and making money.

woodworker9

Thanks, Alan.  My entire workshop is made up of OWWM's that I've restored.  You probably saw my jointer on the OWWM website, or perhaps on Practical Machinist.  The purists were giving me hell for painting it copper, but my attitude is....my machine, I can paint it any color I want.

I'll probably paint the Corley the same color.  I like copper and black.

I won't shorten the mandrel or anything else until I get every home, and figure out what is what.  It's a mechanical machine, and someone built it, which means I can take it apart and rebuild it once I understand how it works.

I'm going to remove the husk off the main frame and just rebuild it once it's here. I found out it is no original, as the PO rebuilt it years ago.  The original was wood, and he converted it to steel.  I need to keep the width down around 8' in order to trailer it back home without it costing a fortune for wide load permits, etc.....I have a CDL, and cannot risk my license for a screwup on the Illinois roads.  These state troopers here take their job very seriously.....I know all too well.

Jeff
03' LT40HD25 Kohler hydraulic w/ accuset
MS 441, MS 290, New Holland L185

mikeb1079

now that's what i'm talking about!  thanks for the pics they look great.  how i'd love to have one of those older wide jointers.  unfortunately there's absolutely no way i could get one downstairs into my little shop.   :(   

it would be fun to restore one too.   ;D
that's why you must play di drum...to blow the big guys mind!
homebuilt 16hp mill
99 wm superhydraulic w/42hp kubota

Corley5

  That mill looks like a #5.  I hauled one back, a left hand #5 on wood,   to N. Lower Mich. from the Mo. Ozarks.  Took three trips with my gooseneck.  One for the tracks and carriage, another for the D13000 Cat, and the last for the husk, log turner, and misc.  I'd have been $$$ a head to have it trucked but the adventure and meeting with FF friends was priceless.



 



 
Burnt Gunpowder is the Smell Of Freedom

woodworker9

It's a 395.  Your story epitomizes what it's about for me.  It's always about the people.  The rest is just rhetoric.  Thanks for posting.


Jeff
03' LT40HD25 Kohler hydraulic w/ accuset
MS 441, MS 290, New Holland L185

bandmiller2

Jeff,I hauled a circulr mill home only help me,myself, and I.Just had a low single axle trailer.Parked it at the end of the rails and pulled everything on,carriage was easy rolled on.Planks and pipes with come-along,engine on board.Mine was close I could haul small loads.Is your mill fastened down or just sitting on blocks.?? Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

dblair

I hauled mine all on a 25' gooseneck including the power unit . everything with wood in between , the track in 4 sections stacked . the power unit next to it . and the husk behind that with the carriage , it was a load but 20 miles later it was at the shop .
old Appomattox Iron Works circle mill.

woodworker9

Quote from: bandmiller2 on March 16, 2013, 07:27:13 AM
Jeff,I hauled a circulr mill home only help me,myself, and I.Just had a low single axle trailer.Parked it at the end of the rails and pulled everything on,carriage was easy rolled on.Planks and pipes with come-along,engine on board.Mine was close I could haul small loads.Is your mill fastened down or just sitting on blocks.?? Frank C.

The mill is 220 miles away from me.  I'm planning on going to inspect the situation next week.  The only info I have is from the pictures, and what the present owner has told me.....31 feet of the mill is all solid on steel I-beams that would have to be cut in order to shorten it.

If I can figure out how to get it into shorter sections to haul on my 16' trailer, then I'm golden....even if I have to make two trips.  I really won't know until I see it myself....keeping my fingers crossed.
03' LT40HD25 Kohler hydraulic w/ accuset
MS 441, MS 290, New Holland L185

york

Jeff,i am sure that many of us,wonder how you made out with this mill??

albert
Albert

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