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Multi grade oil in a detriot diesel ??

Started by Timbercruiser, March 07, 2013, 09:27:37 PM

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Timbercruiser

Hi everyone been having some talks with a freind about multi grade oil in his 353 detroit . After 30 years of having one he swears about 50W in summer and 30W in winter . They said back in the day detriot didnt recomend a multi grade oil.  Now I know its 2013 and I want to hear what everyone has to say. Is it ok or is it not and what weights do you guys use if you run multigrade oil ??? Thanks everyone

Neilo

Don't run multigrade.

I use 40w here in Aus which does not have cold winters, manual states 30w.

There are plenty of straight grade oils with spec for the Detroit, why would you try something that doesn't meet the spec?

John Woodworth

Detroit recomends a straight grade oil only, Dello(Chevron) Rotilla(shell) Ursa(Texaco) I use 40w myself, gets too cold drop to 30w or in exterrm conditions 20w, the point is a straight grade oil.
In the Chevron line the recomended oil is Dello 100 which is ment however I myself use Dello 400 in everything I own from lawnmowers to skidders.
Two Garret 21 skidders, Garret 10 skidder, 580 Case Backhoe, Mobile Dimension sawmill, 066, 046 mag, 044, 036mag, 034, 056 mag, 075, 026, lewis winch

ScottAR

Straight weight oil period.   As has been said Delo 100 matches the specs best. 

http://www.tejascoach.com/tips.html    Some reading on the subject.
Scott
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coxy

i use 15/40 in all my stuff over 20 years

grassfed

Timbercruiser I think that your friend knows what he is talking about. My truck has a 6v53 and I run up and down hills at 45-50k loaded. I am pushing the motor pretty hard and I have tried 30 wt, 40 wt and 15-40 wt. The oil pressure runs lower and the oil heats up after climbs with the 15-40wt also it uses more oil. The 30wt does better but the 40wt is the best. Detroit recommends 40wt winter and summer as long as you do not have any problems turning over the motor to start it when it is cold. I think that 50 would be great in an older motor in the summer but no one in my area sells 50 wt oil with the CF-2 designation. You want your oil to have CF-2 on the can. This means that it meets Detroit specification for TWO STROKES (means that it has low ash content among other things). Other oils work just not as well.
Mike

thenorthman

Quote from: grassfed on March 08, 2013, 08:50:57 AM
Timbercruiser I think that your friend knows what he is talking about. My truck has a 6v53 and I run up and down hills at 45-50k loaded. I am pushing the motor pretty hard and I have tried 30 wt, 40 wt and 15-40 wt. The oil pressure runs lower and the oil heats up after climbs with the 15-40wt also it uses more oil. The 30wt does better but the 40wt is the best. Detroit recommends 40wt winter and summer as long as you do not have any problems turning over the motor to start it when it is cold. I think that 50 would be great in an older motor in the summer but no one in my area sells 50 wt oil with the CF-2 designation. You want your oil to have CF-2 on the can. This means that it meets Detroit specification for TWO STROKES (means that it has low ash content among other things). Other oils work just not as well.
Harley Davidson, sells straight 50w and 60w for use in air cooled bikes, not sure about the ash contents stuff but owners manual says you can use diesel rated oil in a pinch... (which means your cheap and don't want to pay the factory the extra $1.50 for that hd logo...) just a thought if'n you would like to run thicker oil...
well that didn't work

Bill_G

I've run 15-40 for years in all my equipment .

ga jones

If you go to mtu diesels web site they are the owners of 2 stroke detroit now. They have the specs for oils. 2strojes require low ash and other different specs than multi grades. However the new oils made for the egr soot ridden engines you will find the specs are close enough to use .
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ga jones

I am switching mine to 5/40 synthetic delo made for modern egr engines.
380c timberjack c4 treefarmer international trucks jonsered saws. Sugi hara bars d31 komatsu 350 tj grapple

coxy

i could run 50w in the winter and not have any truble turning at -30 its worn out  :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: but keeps runing

barbender

I'm surprised LJ48 hasn't chimed in on this yet, he has a lot of experience with Detroits. I just ran into the local Detroit specialist mechanic the other day and asked him this very question. The answer- "straight grade only." I'll be dumping the 15w-40 out of my Detroit shortly :o
Too many irons in the fire

barbender

GA jones has a good point- the newer oils are low ash too, I'll have to look into that some more. I sure prefer a synthetic oil.
Too many irons in the fire

smwwoody

I have been running schaffer or chem search full syn in a 353 for a few years now with great luck.  it uses even less oil than with straight 50. Both of these meet the detroit spec for the 2 strokes.  I had an oil filter base come loose a few weeks ago and figured since it pumped out a gallon or more of oil it was time for an oil change.  I was out of the syn so i put a very popular 15/40 in until my next oil shippment comes in.  now it is useing over a gallon a week.  i just prooved to myself agian that 15/40 in not for a detroit.
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mburrow

here is a scanned page from a mid 1980's Detroit manual on the oil recommendation

grassfed

Quotemid 1980's Detroit manual on the oil recommendation

I looked this up a few years ago and Detroit stopped recommending 15-40wt oil AFTER this manual was printed. They did tests on fleet engines and the 15-40wt did not live up to expectations. Notice that the text talks about "new generation" these multigrades were kind of new back then. Long term tests proved them less reliable than the single wt oils. The latest recommendation from Detroit says to use 40 wt if you can get the engine started. They don't even recommend 30wt unless you have to use it.
Mike

grassfed

Here is a link to a pdf file from MTU. This is the "official" DD position as of 4/2012. Go to section 4 page 18 to see the recommendations for for 2 strokes...
http://www.mtu-online.com/fileadmin/fm-dam/mtu-global/technical-info/fluids_and_lubricants_specifications/A001061_35E.pdf
Mike

mburrow

if you read page 18 of the pdf you will find at the bottom of the page

Restrictions for Series 53/71/92 applications - all applications except marine

Start failures may occur at ambient temperatures < 0 °C when the engine is operated with SAE grade 40 oils.
If no start aids are available, oils of SAE grade 30 may be used as a short-term solution.
At lower temperatures (-18 to -32 °C) oils of SAE grade 15W-40 may also be
used.
These oils must, however, comply with the specification API CF-2 and have a
high-temperature viscosity of min. 3.7 cP at 150 °C.
The oil grade must be changed back to SAE 40 as soon as the temperatures allow to do so

grassfed

That's what I meant when I said
QuoteThe latest recommendation from Detroit says to use 40 wt if you can get the engine started. They don't even recommend 30wt unless you have to use it.

I use a block heater and always use 40wt.
Mike

mburrow

I use 15W-40 in my 3-71 and will continue to do so. when it starts to use a excessive amount of oil I will repair it.
I also dont feel the German specs apply to My American built engine.
this is just My opinion and I am stubborn and there is no changing it

grassfed

The 71s aren't "wound as tight" as the 53s; you probably won't have any trouble. :)
Mike

lumberjack48

 Chevron Delo-100 has the lowest ash content you can get in a oil and comes in straight weights 10-20-30-40-50.
This is what your two cycle Detroit calls for so why scuff up cylinder walls, get sticky rings, carbon deposits on the valves from running a Multi-grade oil.
I ran 15/40 in my Detroits, i feel bad know for putting it in. All a motor is doing is trying to serve us up to it expectations, and it can't with the wrong oil.
In the -10 to -40 i should have gone with straight 20 or 30, not 15/40. My father used straight 10 in his 3-53 in the winter with out any issues. Not only two cycles but our four cycles will all run longer using a straight Wt oil. 
I personally would run a full synthetic 40 weight year round in a skidder.
The best thing to do to help with cold weather starting is to set your machine up 24 volt. Hind site is 20/20, i hooked my TF'er up 24 volt a few times, started right up, i just never took the time to do it right. And 24 volt is not harder on the stater, 12 volt in cold weather is much harder on it.

A guy that hauled for me had 7 semi's, he had a box in the back of his pickup set up for starting his trucks. He had a bunch of batteries hooked in a series, i believe he said it put out a 72 volt jump.
I had a 56 Pontiac when i was 16, it started hard, my dad told me to try two 6 volt batteries instead of the one 12 volt, it worked, my problems were over.

I figure you've looked at these pistons and sleeves, I'll show you again.


 



 
Third generation logger, owner operator, 30 yrs felling experience with pole skidder. I got my neck broke back in 89, left me a quad. The wife kept the job going up to 96.

ga jones

Quote from: lumberjack48 on March 14, 2013, 08:52:32 PM
Chevron Delo-100 has the lowest ash content you can get in a oil and comes in straight weights 10-20-30-40-50.
This is what your two cycle Detroit calls for so why scuff up cylinder walls, get sticky rings, carbon deposits on the valves from running a Multi-grade oil.
I ran 15/40 in my Detroits, i feel bad know for putting it in. All a motor is doing is trying to serve us up to it expectations, and it can't with the wrong oil.
In the -10 to -40 i should have gone with straight 20 or 30, not 15/40. My father used straight 10 in his 3-53 in the winter with out any issues. Not only two cycles but our four cycles will all run longer using a straight Wt oil. 
I personally would run a full synthetic 40 weight year round in a skidder.
The best thing to do to help with cold weather starting is to set your machine up 24 volt. Hind site is 20/20, i hooked my TF'er up 24 volt a few times, started right up, i just never took the time to do it right. And 24 volt is not harder on the stater, 12 volt in cold weather is much harder on it.

A guy that hauled for me had 7 semi's, he had a box in the back of his pickup set up for starting his trucks. He had a bunch of batteries hooked in a series, i believe he said it put out a 72 volt jump.
I had a 56 Pontiac when i was 16, it started hard, my dad told me to try two 6 volt batteries instead of the one 12 volt, it worked, my problems were over.

I figure you've looked at these pistons and sleeves, I'll show you again.


 



 
here's the old post with the pics David
380c timberjack c4 treefarmer international trucks jonsered saws. Sugi hara bars d31 komatsu 350 tj grapple

David-L

ga jones,  i think that you might be on to something with the newer oils that are low ash for modern diesels. When you look at the Mobil site data sheet for the  15-40 1300 super it has all the specs including CF-2. 1.0 sulfated ash content. Not a approval from Detroit but from Mobil. I started the machine Friday at 15 degrees and had oil psi immediately ran it all day and the oil was not like water on the dipstick. I have been farming over twenty years and own and have owned lots of equipment and have payed attention to oil changes every 100hrs and I believe that is more important than anything else. I will be back to straight 40wt in April as that is the correct oil for warmer use. still would say 15-40 for winter weather is an option if you get one with low ash and the cf-2 rating.
                                                       David l



 
In two days from now, tomorrow will be yesterday.

ga jones

I have switched to the Mobil 1 5-40 diesel pickup oil. It's low ash egr engine oil.
380c timberjack c4 treefarmer international trucks jonsered saws. Sugi hara bars d31 komatsu 350 tj grapple

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