iDRY Vacuum Kilns

Sponsors:

question about beetle damaged wood

Started by Po-Jo, March 05, 2013, 07:41:55 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Po-Jo

I would like to ask you veteran sawyers your limits on damage trees. I have read on here that some people have cut beetle damaged trees ( pines), so how far gone does a tree have to be before its "Too gone" to cut,  needles turning brown I can see but what about no needle? what if the bark is starting to come off? where do you draw the line on too much  damage ? This would be for personal use, not sale. I guess the same would apply for lightning strike trees also.   

drobertson

Po-Jo, I have cut a pile of beetle killed pine, as well as pine that that is dying from them, the best bet would be to fall some trees and then check the log for soundness. You can even do this while they are standing, most of the time unless they are just rotten, they are pretty good to saw and use, I have cut many that have no bark at all,  after a few you will beable to tell if the boards still have the strength or will break easily. 
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

Slab Slicer

I mill anything that's still solid on the inside. Sap wood can be falling off. I'm getting some black walnut that's been on the ground in a pile for about 3 years. It'''s still solid from what I can see, so I'll give it a try on the mill. I'm hoping for some worm holes and such in it.

As for lightning strike trees, I'm not sure, but I've heard they are tough to cut. I've never milled one, so I'm not sure.
2016 LT35HDG25, Kubota L2501 w/ FEL, Kubota BX1500 w/FEL and custom skidding rig, Stihl MS 500i, Stihl MS362-25", Stihl MS250-20", Stihl MS192-18",  2001 F250 SD 7.3, GMC Sierra Dually 6.0 gasser, Peaqua 16" 10K trailer, Sur-Trac 12' Dump Trailer 10K
Chuck

POSTON WIDEHEAD

Well, it's like this. If it's for personal use......experiment. You will learn a lot. What lumber do you have planned to cut for yourself from these trees.

I have always had the mind set that ANY piece of wood as long as it is not rotten, can be of interest to somebody.
I have sawed a few Pine mantles with Beetle trails showing and the customer went crazy over it......he and his wife loved it.
I have sold Beetle trail boards for siding......my customers loved the character.

But all in all, I have learned from experience that when I pick up a board that has had beetles in it or has been damaged by lighting, I can tell if the density and quality is there.

IMO, I would not recommend Beetle Pine for structural use.....but it has it's advantages for visual affects.
The older I get I wish my body could Re-Gen.

drobertson

I forgot about the lighting stikes, they can be used if they are not busted, some will take the direct hit and are very easy to tell, just kindling, others will have the top portion blown out,  this part can be buck off and use the remainder,  I usually saw off a foot or so, then split in half to check for the integrity of the wood.
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

reride82

Po-Jo,
It really depends on what you want from that tree. If the tree has already cracked, its uses get less. It can still be cut for a log cabin log, a beam as long as there isn't too much spiral grain, or for posts. You could probably still get useable framing lumber from a cracked tree if you can keep the crack/check contained to one board. Otherwise, if the tree hasn't cracked or checked, saw it up as you see fit. I have used cracked ones for a log cabin and for beams/posts/trusses.
Levi
'Do it once, do it right'

'First we shape our buildings, then our buildings shape us'
Living life on the Continental Divide in Montana

pineywoods

PO Jo, I cut a lot of beetle and lightening killed pine. There's only one sure way to tell if it's still good - put a saw blade to the log. However there are some general rules of thumb. If the needles are still there, the log is most likely good.  Bark or no bark, doesn't seem to matter much. If there are dead limbs on the ground around the base, leave it. Beetle killed logs will most likely be rather dry. Lightening killed may be unusually hard, especially in the butt cut.
1995 Wood Mizer LT 40, Liquid cooled kawasaki,homebuilt hydraulics. Homebuilt solar dry kiln.  Woodmaster 718 planner, Kubota M4700 with homemade forks and winch, stihl  028, 029, Ms390
100k bd ft club.Charter member of The Grumpy old Men

WDH

Stick a pocketknife in the wood.  If it penetrates easily, it is not good.  If it is hard to get the point of the knife in the wood, the inside will be OK. 
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

POSTON WIDEHEAD

Quote from: WDH on March 05, 2013, 09:13:57 PM
Stick a pocketknife in the wood.  If it penetrates easily, it is not good.  If it is hard to get the point of the knife in the wood, the inside will be OK.

Do y'all have Pines in Georgia?  :D
The older I get I wish my body could Re-Gen.

WDH

Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

wetdog

I've cut alot of beetle bit SYP. Usually if the bark is slipping its too far gone and too dangerous as the tops can break out if it jerks when falling.

ely

i use the pocket knife method also. i jamb it into the end of the log. also use the grapple, if i can squish the log its no good.

Po-Jo

thanks guys for the info, i have been looking at these standing trees in various stages , and wondering, will have to try some of the safer looking ones

Sixacresand

I just sawed down a beetle killed loblolly pine that died last summer.  The bark was already coming off.  It was OK but not like lumber from a green tree. Beetle killed pines is one of the main reasons I bought a mill:  to salvage lumber and not drag dead trees off the to woods to waste away. 
"Sometimes you can make more hay with less equipment if you just use your head."  Tom, Forestry Forum.  Tenth year with a LT40 Woodmizer,

Po-Jo

Thats has played a big part as to why i got the mill also, now that i am about to actually do some cutting, i am becoming more aware of the trees in the woods around me, I am really seeing some of these damaged trees, i want to catch them in the brown needle stage but i have found some with no needles and some with the bark starting to come off,hate to see them not used

WDH

It is definitely best to get them before the needles all fall off.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

scottmtfarm

I have been milling mostly dead syp. Some blown down by storm damage and some beetle killed. I have found that most of the sap wood is no good but the heart is very solid.  The biggest issue is felling them safely.  Be careful with dead trees.

GeneWengert-WoodDoc

If you like to read, Two good booklets.   

Levi, M.P. A guide for using beetle-killed southern pine based on tree appearance. Agric. Handb. 572. Washington, DC: U.S. Department of Agriculture; 1981. 19 p.
http://naldc.nal.usda.gov/download/CAT89231710/PDF

Good pictures and the literature cited has lots of good ideas for paneling, etc.


A second report (Walters, E.; Weldon, D. Utilization of southern pine beetle-killed timber for lumber in east Texas. Circular 256. Lufkin, TX: Texas Forest Service; 1982a. 4 p.) is not on the Internet but they state "Trees dead for 90 days in east Texas yielded 75 to 79 percent as much lumber as green sawlogs. Trees dead for 180 to 360 days did not appear economical to utilize. The volume of No. 2 and better lumber produces from trees dead for 90 days or longer is much less than that from green trees."
Gene - Author of articles in Sawmill & Woodlot and books: Drying Hardwood Lumber; VA Tech Solar Kiln; Sawing Edging & Trimming Hardwood Lumber. And more

Po-Jo

You guys have some really good info thanks for all the replys

Thank You Sponsors!