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Building Permits

Started by Sixacresand, March 04, 2013, 08:57:17 AM

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Sixacresand

I was reminded recently that I should pay the building permit tax before building a shed to for lumber.  I already studded up two walls, but am now considering knocking it apart and just keep covering lumber stacks with plastic or tar paper.  Affording a permit is not a problem, just the principle of it.  Where I live they don't care what and where you build something, they just want the fee and to know to increase your property taxes.  Just my opinion. 
"Sometimes you can make more hay with less equipment if you just use your head."  Tom, Forestry Forum.  Tenth year with a LT40 Woodmizer,

Kansas

If you have property taxes in your state, they will find it. The question is, is the cost of the building permit and subsequent taxes worth it for drying lumber? Covered lumber doesn't always do that well.

There might be one other alternative in your  location. In Kansas, if a building is portable, I don't believe its taxable. I know the first two solar kilns we put on beams, and telephone poles on the other one, were not. No building permit needed. No taxes on them. Its the same as mobile homes in Kansas. While they are subject to a yearly tax, there is no property tax if you keep the wheels under it. Yeah, right. Once the skirting is up, no one from the county is going to crawl under there and see if you kept the wheels under it.

Ocklawahaboy

Here in the sunshine state, tax assessments are done by air.  They calculate the square footage under roof and tax.  If you haven't declared something such as a pole barn, by getting the permit, you gat taxed at the rate for living area. 

thecfarm

13 years ago was real simple.$25 and no nothing. No plan,no square footage,did not have to draw out where the road,septic,well is,neighbors property in footage. That was when our house was built.I'm building a veggie stand, Needed all of the above. This one is so bad now the guy on the other road submitted a plan,got it ok'ed and than he put the trusses on and the eves was too close to the road. I doubt 100 cars go by there a day. He had to move them back a foot. One side has a foot over hung, the other side has 3 feet. I did forget to mention it cost so much per square foot now. supposely that was changed because if someone was building a 10X10 shed it cost them the same amount if someone was building a 2 story house,$25.
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GeneWengert-WoodDoc

A dry kiln is a piece of equipment for tax purposes, so although you might want a building permit when constructing it, it should be taxed as equipment.  In any case, do depreciate as equipment on income taxes.
Gene - Author of articles in Sawmill & Woodlot and books: Drying Hardwood Lumber; VA Tech Solar Kiln; Sawing Edging & Trimming Hardwood Lumber. And more

jcbrotz

What is this thing you speak of Building permit? ;D :D I am kidding I bought one when we did our house it cost 10$ I am still testing how long it is good for ::). When I went to build my shop they told me I could not build with rough cut so I said nevermind I did not need one. They did find me for taxes but it took several years. I will test it again this year for a sawshed. :-X
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Kansas

Quote from: GeneWengert-WoodDoc on March 04, 2013, 01:32:48 PM
A dry kiln is a piece of equipment for tax purposes, so although you might want a building permit when constructing it, it should be taxed as equipment.  In any case, do depreciate as equipment on income taxes.

Not a tax expert, but I believe that you could expense out the equipment itself,  cost of wiring, etc, with no problem, using 179.  If it is a fixed building, that will not be allowed under section 179 accelerated depreciation. The fixed building itself would have to be depreciated out as a building. I think. If you cut your own lumber to use, then that would simply come out of inventory, and expensed out on a cash basis. Lower inventory means less profit. The rest of the stuff, if it was just a solar kiln, or a smaller home built chamber that was portable, I would just expense out any of the other stuff used to build it..

drobertson

Kansas, it's like that here as well, anything portable, is portable,  skids are the way to go to get out of the fixed building tax assesment.  We have accessors that do drive by inspections here.
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

GeneWengert-WoodDoc

When I get home, I will look for the information I have about kilns and taxes.  I am not a tax lawyer or advisor either, but one person that I worked with made the claim that a kiln is not a building, but it is a kiln, and was given that tax advantage. 

here is what I am thinking... if you put a building around the kiln itself, would the kiln then be taxed as equipment just like an oven?  So, why, if you take away the walls and roof, and have the oven outside would the tax treatment change?  Of course, business taxes are weird, but I did win the one "audit" I had but it did not involve a kiln.
Gene - Author of articles in Sawmill & Woodlot and books: Drying Hardwood Lumber; VA Tech Solar Kiln; Sawing Edging & Trimming Hardwood Lumber. And more

POSTON WIDEHEAD

In my county in S.C.....if it has power going to it and you store things in it, it is a taxable building and you need a permit to build it. If this building is used in your business, you can depreciate it every year. A kiln with power is considered a building.

If it does not have power going to it.......you are in the clear as far as a building permit. You can still depreciate it off your taxes if used in your business.

Your county may be different, my county just wants the tax dollars. If you didn't know any better, you could go to our County Office and ask for a permit to build a Rabbit Box, they would tell you to wait a minute and they would go to the printer and print you one and it would say "Rabbit Box" on it. That's the truth.
The older I get I wish my body could Re-Gen.

moandrich

I know in my town it is cheaper to ask forgiveness, the town hall is not very helpful at all.  I have tried to do the right thing and treated like a criminal while people are not following the rules are give in the red carpet because they know the right people.
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Kansas

Sometimes it is better to act first, then beg ignorance if need be.

Doesn't always work in marriage, but it does sometimes with government entities.

opticsguy

A co-worker built his house about 3 years ago in my city. Standard 3 bedroom 2 bath house on a building lot.

Permit was a little over $38,000!!!

Yes, $38K  DOLLARS!!

For paperwork. . . . . . .

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Sixacresand

Quote from: opticsguy on March 05, 2013, 12:48:34 AM
A co-worker built his house about 3 years ago in my city. Standard 3 bedroom 2 bath house on a building lot.

Permit was a little over $38,000!!!

Yes, $38K  DOLLARS!!

For paperwork. . . . . . .
That is scary.
"Sometimes you can make more hay with less equipment if you just use your head."  Tom, Forestry Forum.  Tenth year with a LT40 Woodmizer,

moandrich

some towns, no concrete or doors is considered a temp building
woodmizer lt 40HD  2007
Kubota RTVX1100 2019
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36 coupe

Lets see if I can simplify this.A fishing license is 23.00 here. Fishing with out one can cost you 200.00.You can look at photos of your place on your computer.Building too close to the road or boundary can get you jail time in the town I grew up in.Permits were not required here until 1975.

Sixacresand

Good point, 36 coupe.  Not having a building permit is worth a $600 fine here.
"Sometimes you can make more hay with less equipment if you just use your head."  Tom, Forestry Forum.  Tenth year with a LT40 Woodmizer,

Jay C. White Cloud

There are many things about this topic that bother me!  One is city planners using permit fees as a control method for development...so if you aren't wealthy, there is know way to build.  "Smacks," of the 1%ers getting control of an area and not letting others move in.  I'm beginning to see the very first signs of it here in Vermont.  The wealthy move in, get political on town boards, then slowly but surly these little insipid laws and regulations start creeping in.

38K boarders on criminal in my mind and not even a realistic number to expect someone to pay for a piece of paper, and that's not BIG government that little government.  Someone needs to "break a foot off,"  someplace in that community!  That price is just ridiculous, and sounds more like permit fees in New York City for a 70,000 ft2 commercial building I've been around, than a 3 bedroom house.

I push back on this where ever I'm involved in the processes.  I intentional did not use any concrete in my house just to fit inside the tax laws for "transient" or "camp" architecture.  I also make outbuildings movable, or, as a timber wright, put them up for sale.  Can't tax me on a commodity.  I know not everyone can offer there future garage for sale, but it is more a method to make a point and draw attention to the fact that permitting and taxes are getting out of control in many areas of this country.  I pay $250, someone else pays $38k and some pay nothing...that is a broke system and not equitable in any way.

"To posses an open mind, is to hold a key to many doors, and the ability to created doors where there were none before."

"When it is all said and done, they will have said they did it themselves."-teams response under a good leader.

Sixacresand

I bought a building permit this week for the porch addition to my house.  I asked for a list of guidelines and there weren't any.   So I guess I am good to go.  I think I will buy another one next month for the drying shed I started last month. 
"Sometimes you can make more hay with less equipment if you just use your head."  Tom, Forestry Forum.  Tenth year with a LT40 Woodmizer,

clww

Quote from: opticsguy on March 05, 2013, 12:48:34 AM
A co-worker built his house about 3 years ago in my city. Standard 3 bedroom 2 bath house on a building lot.

Permit was a little over $38,000!!!

Yes, $38K  DOLLARS!!

For paperwork. . . . . . .
YIKES! :o :o :o :o :o
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yellowrosefarm

Here, you can only use graded lumber when building a building that will be lived in. Farm buildings can be built out of rough cut sawmill lumber but not houses that have to go through the building inspection process.

Tree Feller

I built my home myself over a two year period. I did everything except pour & finish the slab, install the AC/ductwork and lay the carpeting.  The only permit and inspection required was for the septic system. About a week before we moved in, there were a couple of guys from the tax assessor's office showed up. They asked a few questions about square footage, number of bathrooms, etc and then asked if they could measure the outside dimensions. I told them to knock themselves out. They just grinned, went about their business and were very friendly. My property tax went up significantly that year, though.   ;D
Cody

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mometal77

This county I am in are full of rules.  A friend neighbor put in an over 3000 sq ft cement basement the start of a beautiful home. The taxes shot up on his property.  He went to united rental with and got an excavator with a few neat hydraulic tools and demolished the whole thing. It was a sight.  I wonder how many of you have ever heard in some towns where the inspector is also the installer.  South of me is known to have a small town were if you even try and install a septic and use a contractor outside of the town it fails every time until you use the other guy.  Idaho looks good to me. Friends moved there and the permit process is a lot better. :)
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Lud

Farmers often can build agricultural structures without permits.   ;) ;)
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Magicman

I regularly tell customers to be sure about building permits before having framing lumber sawed.  There are actually several things that must be done.  The architectural drawings must specify graded and/or rough sawn framing lumber.  The lending institution, building inspector as well as the insurer must sign off on the drawings.

You do not want to frame up a building and then have expensive problems or have to tear it down.
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WoodenHead

Interesting topic.

I built my house almost 8 years ago now.  Building permit was around $1000 for a 2200 square foot home, plus an additional $1000 for driveway enterance permit, plus $300 for a septic permit, plus $500 to enter into a right-of-way agreement with the township for use of an unopened road allowance. 

We were only allowed to build on our property because we had water front access (a technicality - and it really wouldn't qualify as access).  The moment I signed the right-of-way agreement with the township and paid the fee, the township said we are changing the rules and you must immediately submit a permit for any structure you would ever want on the property.  I had no idea at the time what I needed besides my house.  So, we built the house.  We figured that no permit was required for any other buildings because they weren't going to give us one anyway.   ;D

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