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blade rollers

Started by xlogger, March 03, 2013, 06:25:21 PM

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xlogger

How many of you roll your blades when you sharpen them? Do you think it helps? Ricky
Timberking 2000, Turbo slabber Mill, 584 Case, Bobcat 773, solar kiln, Nyle L-53 DH kiln

Ga Mtn Man

I don't sharpen my own blades, but the guy that I just started using is very meticulous about his blades.  He checks each one and rolls the ones that need it.  Don't ask me how he decides which ones need rolling.  I can give you his contact info in a PM if you'd like.  I know he'd be more than happy to discuss the topic with you.
"If the women don't find you handsome they should at least find you handy." - Red Green


2012 LT40HDG29 with "Superized" hydraulics,  2 LogRite cant hooks, home-built log arch.

Ga Mtn Man

Quote from: Ga Mtn Man on March 03, 2013, 07:39:22 PM
I don't sharpen my own blades, but the guy that I just started using is very meticulous about his blades. 

What I was trying to say is that he treats every blade as if it were his blade. :)
"If the women don't find you handsome they should at least find you handy." - Red Green


2012 LT40HDG29 with "Superized" hydraulics,  2 LogRite cant hooks, home-built log arch.

dboyt

Whether it helps depends on the type of band wheel.  Some bandwheels are worse than others about bending the blade.  You can put a steel straight edge across the blade and look for any crosswise bending.  My experience is that it helps.  Like GA Mtn Man, I send my blades out for sharpening, and they get rolled if they need them.  Been very satisfied, but don't have anything else to compare them to.
Norwood MX34 Pro portable sawmill, 8N Ford, Lewis Winch

ladylake


I've gotton along a long time with no roller with 1-1/4 blades, I think they benifit 1-1/2 + blades more.  Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

Chuck White

I believe you're right Steve!

I use the 1¼ inch WM Double Hards and have never had a problem relative to blade rolling!
~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

JustinW_NZ

Whats a sign they need rolling?
The straight edge trick the easy way to tell?

Cheers
Justin
Gear I run;
Woodmizer LT40 Super, Treefarmer C4D, 10ton wheel loader.

terrifictimbersllc

All this rolling talk, can someone show me who sells a band roller?  ::)  Among its uses, it would be good for quickly fixing over-set bands.
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

kelLOGg

Cook Saw sells them and swears by them, for all size bands (even 1.25 inchers) and all wheels, tired and crowned. Ask them for a video. The roller won't correct for overset. It's non-intuitive how it works; a ball-shaped roller contacts one side of the blade - not sure about the contact for the other side.
I have checked my bands w/ a straight edge and have seen a crack of light indicating curvature but I have also seen the same crack on new bands (Simonds Red Streak) right out of the box.  ??? I don't roll my bands but would love to try it to see if it corrects the slight rising in the cut I experience.
Bob
Cook's MP-32, 20HP, 20' (modified w/ power feed, up/down, loader/turner)
DH kiln, CatClaw setter and sharpener, tandem trailer, log arch, tractor, thumb tacks

petefrom bearswamp

My neighbor has a gadget, nogt a band roller  that I think he got from WM which takes the set out of over set blades.
I have used it on occasion and it works well.
I am wondering if rolling is only necessary when using crowned wheels?
Pete
Kubota 8540 tractor, FEL bucket and forks, Farmi winch
Kubota 900 RTV
Polaris 570 Sportsman ATV
3 Huskies 1 gas Echo 1 cordless Echo vintage Homelite super xl12
57 acres of woodland

millwright

I've used an english wheel to take the set out of a couple of blades that had hit rocks with good results.

Ljohnsaw

 In simple terms, can someone explain what you are talking about/issue?  I'm thinking you are referring to an unequal lengthening of the blade during its life. Somehow you can "roll" (squish it to make it longer) one edge to make it "straight" again?
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Ford 545D FEL, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/36" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

Chuck White

A blade roller flattens the band.

It is run lengthwise of the band.

Using a straight edge, lay it on the band front to back, if you see an air gap under the straight edge, the band would then be rolled.
~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

Ga Mtn Man

"If the women don't find you handsome they should at least find you handy." - Red Green


2012 LT40HDG29 with "Superized" hydraulics,  2 LogRite cant hooks, home-built log arch.

Ljohnsaw

Ok, so the band developes a cup, conforming to the crown of the band wheel, right?  That could mess up the cutting abality!
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Ford 545D FEL, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/36" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

customsawyer

To check if the blade needs rolled I use a utility knife and place it across the blade. If there is daylight in the middle or on the ends of the blade it needs to be rolled. What causes the blade to cup in the middle of the blade is the fact that everything you do to or with that blade is done to the leading edge of the blade. Over time it will make the leading edge of the blade a little longer than the back of the blade. Rolling of the blade will elongate the back edge of the blade thus making it flat.
Most of my blades are 1¾" and it is rare that I have one that needs rolled. I do run my blades longer than most so 3-4 sharpening is all I normally get. If I do get a blade that gives me trouble and everything else is right then I check the flatness of the blade.
There were a few post made while I was pecking out on the putter.
Two LT70s, Nyle L200 kiln, 4 head Pinheiro planer, 30" double surface Cantek planer, Lucas dedicated slabber, Slabmizer, and enough rolling stock and chainsaws to keep it all running.
www.thecustomsawyer.com

beenthere

customsawyer
I wish that explanation made sense to me, but it doesn't add up to a blade that has a hump across its width (and that hump is what we are hearing is the problem).
But I'll sit tight until something comes along that does explain (to me) what rolling does to remove that hump across the width. ;)  And I may just be too dense to ever understand it, so don't distress over my problem.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Ga Mtn Man

Quote from: ljohnsaw on March 06, 2013, 07:26:51 PM
Ok, so the band developes a cup, conforming to the crown of the band wheel, right?  That could mess up the cutting abality!

It's counter intuitive, but it actually develops a cup away from the band wheel crown.  Take one of your bands and bend a curve in it about the diameter of your band wheels and check the blade for flatness on the curved portion.  You'll see the concavity on the outside of the band.
"If the women don't find you handsome they should at least find you handy." - Red Green


2012 LT40HDG29 with "Superized" hydraulics,  2 LogRite cant hooks, home-built log arch.

customsawyer

Beenthere I feel your pain. It took me along time to understand how it worked and what was happening.
I will try to explain it another way. In the process of cutting with and sharpening your blades the blade becomes a fraction of a thousandth longer between each tooth. When you add that fraction of a thousandth up over 210 teeth, on my blades, it makes the leading edge of the blade a few thousandth of a inch longer then the back edge of the blade. This is what causes the cupping of the blade. When rolling the blade you adjust it to where the roller is making contact on the back 1/3 of the blade. The best picture of how it works for me is imagine a blacksmith with a narrow piece of metal on their anvil. As he hammers it and moves it along his anvil it will slowly get longer. While the roller has no hammering effect it has the same concentrated compression effect as the hammering. I hope this helps to make it clear as mud. ;D
Two LT70s, Nyle L200 kiln, 4 head Pinheiro planer, 30" double surface Cantek planer, Lucas dedicated slabber, Slabmizer, and enough rolling stock and chainsaws to keep it all running.
www.thecustomsawyer.com

Ljohnsaw

Custom,
Thanks. I totally understand what you are saying. Now a question:  do you notice this growth in the leading edge as a function of using the blade (cutting, heat buildup from the cut or bending around the wheels) or from the sharpening/setting process?  Just curious. Also, as a matter of practice, do you check every blade before use (including new), before sharpening or just when an issue rears up?
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Ford 545D FEL, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/36" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

customsawyer

I have done lots of checking of blades both new and used. I have found that almost all blades have at least a small amount of cupping. The more it is used the more cupping will develop. I have found that I get the best results not worrying about it till a problem arises.
Keep in mind that I am not a scientific type in any stretch of the word but my feeling is that the increase in length to the leading edge of the blade comes mostly from cutting.     
Two LT70s, Nyle L200 kiln, 4 head Pinheiro planer, 30" double surface Cantek planer, Lucas dedicated slabber, Slabmizer, and enough rolling stock and chainsaws to keep it all running.
www.thecustomsawyer.com

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