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Cheese House Project - Käserei Adler

Started by D L Bahler, March 02, 2013, 07:48:05 PM

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D L Bahler

Last Summer, we began construction of our Cheese House. In this structure, we will be producing handmade cheeses for sale. I can detail that operation later if you wish, here we will talk about the structure.

Now a little about the building,

First off this is built in the style of the Berner Oberland region of the Swiss Alps. This is a square log building style, involving tightly fitted logs without the use of any chinking between courses. This particular building is meant to imitate the somewhat crude structures found up high in the mountains.

We hand-hewed all of our timber from Eastern White Pine. These were then sawn in half with a saw mill. The sawed faces are all on the interior of the building, where they will be covered up with wood paneling.

Our foundation is a rubble trench. We dug down to a depth of 42", well below our frost line, in order to first bury a drainage tile underneath. We then backfilled with rubble up until near the top, where the heaviest frosting will occur. This top portion was then completed with stone.

For the above-ground portion of our foundation walls, we used first a German technique known as Kalsandstampfbau which might be translated as rammed lime sand. This consists of a mixture of sand and lime in a ration of 8:1 to 12:1 depending on a number of factors. This is mixed well together and then rammed into forms as you would do with rammed earth. It is very weak at first, but becomes stone hard slowly after several weeks of curing.

We intended to use this technique for the entire section of the foundation walls up to the beginning of the wood structure, which is 2 feet above the inside floor. But we ran out of time, and had to finish with cement block, mortared with lime.

More details to come as the story progresses...



 



D L Bahler

 

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

    

  

 

DaleK

Hud-Son Oscar 330
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isawlogs

 Yes looks good, how do you seal the logs, I see no chinking of any kind between the rounds, air flow must not be an issue...  ???  :P
A man does not always grow wise as he grows old , but he always grows old as he grows wise .

   Marcel

Jay C. White Cloud

David,

Thank you so much for posting this!!! I will really enjoy following your progress.  Beautiful work.

Regards,

Jay
"To posses an open mind, is to hold a key to many doors, and the ability to created doors where there were none before."

"When it is all said and done, they will have said they did it themselves."-teams response under a good leader.

D L Bahler

on this building, air flow is not a major concern. this will not be in use during the coldest 3 months of the year, and when it is in use there will be an open fire going so we want some ventillation!
on buildings of this type where vairflow is a concern, you would have the timbers joined by a double tongue and groove to act as an air stop. also panelling on interior walls helps to seal the building
this will also have very large roof overhangs
if i were to build a house in this style (which i hope to) i would personally forego the t+g in place of an insulated interior cladding (which is how it is often done on modern houses in the region) insulation would be mineral wool, vermiculite, or something non plastic, non fiberglass that will not cause moisture problems.

beenthere

Is this a volunteer group doing the construction, or a specialized contractor builder hired by you?
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

LOGDOG

Great looking project D L Bahler. Looking forward to following your progress. Would love to see you post about the cheese making process when you get that far along as well.  :)

D L Bahler

we hosted a workshop last summer on the techniques of this building style.
we actually have considered hosting another workshop this spring
hopefully progress will commence soon
but for now, I would like to ask a question
we plan to put paneling on the inside of the cheese-room to satisfy state laws for commercial cheese producers, and perhaps even a layer of insulation.
I would like to maybe put up some sort of vapor barrier, such as tar paper, between the log wall and the paneling. the problem we may have with this system is that we will have an open wood fire in this room as well as large quantities of hot and boiling water for sanitation purposes.
so the question is, what would some of you do in such a situation?

it is necessary also to have a vapor barrier on the ceiling as there is to be a room above that will serve as office space.

Jay C. White Cloud

You know me David, traditional is always the best (well at least 99% of the time.)  I've actually helped the owner of "Anne Gunns," in St. Louise prepare a barn for future wine and cheese storage.  So in prep for that I read up some  :P  and talk to a few folks about "Cheeseries."

I would recommend you do a traditional lime paint wash of the cinder block, about 3 coats minimum, 6 would be better.  Then you have choices from there:

Cover the walls with 30# tar paper and/or a lime wash as well. Filling the spaces between the logs with a thick lime paint putty would be advisable, also. Vertical strips on the wall 24" on center (1"x 3") then horizontal ones (1.3"x4".) To this you can add ship lap or tug and groove 1" pine or spruce boards. These will get a milk paint or lime wash paint
wash as well. 

Another choice after the horizontals are applied, instead of boards, apply traditional lath and then lime plaster all the walls and ceiling as well. 

Yet another, and very effective method: follow the same as above, lime plaster the ceiling and cover the walls to the floor, even over the cinder block with slate tile just like you would a roof.  Stone or cave "Cheeseries," are know for producing some of the best cheese.  In your ancestral Swiss land, limed walls and/or slated walls were relatively common.

Last method similar to the lime, but you use Cobb on the walls and lime over lath for the ceilings.

Both methods can breath, if you do get surface condensation from the boiling, the lime, cobb or slate will deal with it better than anything else.  You may have to use fans, it the humidity is above 80% outside and/or there is condensation forming from temperature differentials between outside and in.

best of luck brother,

regards,

jay

"To posses an open mind, is to hold a key to many doors, and the ability to created doors where there were none before."

"When it is all said and done, they will have said they did it themselves."-teams response under a good leader.

D L Bahler

The blocks are to be completely plastered smooth and white. Lime plaster, of course.

I will do nothing to the spaces between the logs. For one thing, they will settle tight, and then there is to be no chinking or anything of the sort. This would not be true to the style.

What I had considered is to put 15# felt on the inside of the walls and then panel over this.

The law requires that the inside walls and ceiling be smooth and light colored. Painted wood does satisfy this code.

I have considered applying vertical strips to the walls 2x2 dimension, and applying horizontal cladding directly to these. As the wall panels go up, the space between them and the structure could be filled with cobb, light clay mix (I invented a sort of specialty using a mix of light clay slip and smashed charcoal. The charcoal is a wonderful insulator, and the clay slip makes it fireproof) or vermiculite. If I would do this, I would put no barrier onto the structural wall, but leave it open for ventilation. maybe maybe maybe I would put felt over the straps underneath the cladding boards, but probably not.

The ceiling needs to be tight, however. I do not want smoke and steam to rise through the ceiling and into the space above.

First, the ceiling consists of a single beam running from eave to eave. Upon this beam rest 2" boards with no other support. On top of these boards 3/4" floor boards will be nailed in place. There is no other support for this floor other than this single spanning beam. This is a very old method, and I assure you it works very well.

On the bottom of these floor boards, I intend to attach a layer of felt which will also run down the walls about 16" or so to serve as a vapor stop. Over this plywood or boards will be nailed and then painted.

Another option is to apply the 2" strapping to the walls, and use slip forms to fill with a clay infill, then plaster over the whole setup. Again, no vapor barrier used if this is done.

In the Swiss Alps, only walls of solid wood are common. Plaster is a common feature in the cities and perhaps in the eastern and the French speaking parts of the country. Otherwise, wood is king. Many walls are half timbered, filled with stone and then plastered on the outside between the timbers. But still, on farms the inside will be wood paneled.

The preferred surface for cheese make rooms is ceramic tile. But this is not an option for us in the immediate future.

Stone is of benefit only in the aging facility. This has no real impact on the flavor, but rather this is the case because of stone's ability to regulate temperatures within very tight tolerances, and a cave's natural tendency to hold a constant temperature year round.

Jay C. White Cloud

QuoteThe blocks are to be completely plastered smooth and white. Lime plaster, of course.
Most Excellent...good for you!!! 8)

QuoteI will do nothing to the spaces between the logs. For one thing, they will settle tight, and then there is to be no chinking or anything of the sort. This would not be true to the style.
Agreed, what I meant was more of a think lime paint, that you just put on thinker at the joints, but none is more than fine for your purpose.

QuoteI have considered applying vertical strips to the walls 2x2 dimension, and applying horizontal cladding directly to these. As the wall panels go up, the space between them and the structure could be filled with cobb, light clay mix (I invented a sort of specialty using a mix of light clay slip and smashed charcoal. The charcoal is a wonderful insulator, and the clay slip makes it fireproof) or vermiculite. If I would do this, I would put no barrier onto the structural wall, but leave it open for ventilation. maybe maybe maybe I would put felt over the straps underneath the cladding boards, but probably not.
David, I like this idea best so fare...great idea, and I agree totally authentic.

QuoteThe ceiling needs to be tight, however. I do not want smoke and steam to rise through the ceiling and into the space above.
Agreed, absolutly

QuoteFirst, the ceiling consists of a single beam running from eave to eave. Upon this beam rest 2" boards with no other support. On top of these boards 3/4" floor boards will be nailed in place. There is no other support for this floor other than this single spanning beam. This is a very old method, and I assure you it works very well.
One major beam (like a summer beam,) with heavy plank floor on flat with 3/4" additional flooring over that...I follow you and I have been told numerous times it won't work!  Ha, I say to that.  Every time I hear that, I ask, "so when did you try it or have you seen it done in a vintage structure and seen it failed?"  Answer is always the same...NO to both.  I know exactly what this is, it is authentic, and it ties nicely into our other conversation about cultural sharing of knowledge, history to timber framing, etc.  The technique/method in Korea is called Maru 청마루 or 전통 마루 just like your version, there are different styles and methods.  The only place the inspectors might be able to "gig" you is in "moment deflection"  in other words the floor might be to "bouncy" to pass code.  I say go for it.  If you can, do a Sketchup of the floor system and share it here, I would love to see the way you want to do it.

QuoteOn the bottom of these floor boards, I intend to attach a layer of felt which will also run down the walls about 16" or so to serve as a vapor stop. Over this plywood or boards will be nailed and then painted.
Don't like this one at all...you can do better.

QuoteAnother option is to apply the 2" strapping to the walls, and use slip forms to fill with a clay infill, then plaster over the whole setup. Again, no vapor barrier used if this is done.
I like this too, but maybe more work than the other one?

QuoteStone is of benefit only in the aging facility. This has no real impact on the flavor, but rather this is the case because of stone's ability to regulate temperatures within very tight tolerances, and a cave's natural tendency to hold a constant temperature year round.
That is why I thought in your area, you might find an old barn or something with a slate roof that is falling down and salvage the slate.  I know I have seen them this way, but it may have been in a structure for Italy or further East in Europe.  I know in Switzerland, you are correct, wood is KING.

Keep us posted.

Regards,

jay

p.s. I like the blog David, keep it going.  ;)
"To posses an open mind, is to hold a key to many doors, and the ability to created doors where there were none before."

"When it is all said and done, they will have said they did it themselves."-teams response under a good leader.

D L Bahler

Jay I assure you a plank for so constructed if done right will not be bouncy, and can bear plenty of load.

The houses of the Oberland are constructed this way, without the use of joists at all but only these beams to carry the floor. The floor decking sets in notches cut into the walls, and these are only the size of one room. I have experienced a number of these floors, and they can handle the heavy loads of fresh hay heaped upon them or bouncing children running around and jumping, etc. These floors were typically made of wide boards at a thickness of about 1 1/2" or so, tongue and groove or more frequently leaf and groove. They are inserted through a hole in the gable wall and the last board has a slight taper to wedge the boards tight such that no nails are needed to secure the whole floor in place. This board has to be driven in a few times over the years to keep the floor boards tight and squeak proof. The best thing about no nails, as you might imagine, as that the floors do not squeak.

The good thing is that the State of Indiana has a very old law stating that if the owner does the majority of the work, building codes don't apply.

Jay C. White Cloud

QuoteThe good thing is that the State of Indiana has a very old law stating that if the owner does the majority of the work, building codes don't apply.
This is great news, I am happy for you.

I believed you about the floors 100%, it may be others that challenge the truth of it.  Many of my floors are built this way, no nails either, only wood joinery.  I have been on floors that seemed really solid to me yet the PE said the did not me current deflection criteria, which I just though was plain silly.  Fortunately we got a historic project designation and the PE was release from his responsibilities on that matter.  Even if a floor was slightly bouncy does mean it is going to fail.

I am currently designing and shaping a floor for my own house that covers a space 7.2 by 4.8 meters (~24' x 16'.)  There is only one main beam (a 200 mm x 330 mm or ~8" x 13") spanning in the center of the 7.2 meter (~24') width there by making two 3.6 m x 4.8 m (~12' x 16') fields to fill.  Every thing from this point on would be consider a Maru floor system.  I have "plank beams" 125 mm x 600 mm to 800 mm (~5" x 24" to 32") radiating from the main carry beam, 1.6 meters (~5.3') on center.  From these come, 75 mm x 250 mm to 400 mm (~3" x 10" to 16") smaller "plank beams" 900 mm (~3') on center.  40 mm (~1.5") plank boards fill in the spaces between these "plank beams" all on the same plane and locked together with wood joints-no nails.

Every thing you are doing and planning sounds perfect to me,

Regards,

jay
"To posses an open mind, is to hold a key to many doors, and the ability to created doors where there were none before."

"When it is all said and done, they will have said they did it themselves."-teams response under a good leader.

Axe Handle Hound

These floors were typically made of wide boards at a thickness of about 1 1/2" or so, tongue and groove or more frequently leaf and groove. They are inserted through a hole in the gable wall and the last board has a slight taper to wedge the boards tight such that no nails are needed to secure the whole floor in place.

DL- do you have a picture of one of these floors?  I can't quite get it right in my head how this looks once installed. 

D L Bahler

i could get some pictures uploaded later. right no
im just obn my phone
I recommend finding a copy of the December issue of the Timber Framing, in it is a good article with lots of pictures of this style of building that I was prividged to be able to write.

Jay C. White Cloud

David,

Can you recall which issue of TFG journal?  I can't remember which one had a photo of "plank flooring," method.  If anyone is interested there is photo in my photo archive of maru flooring, which is similar.
"To posses an open mind, is to hold a key to many doors, and the ability to created doors where there were none before."

"When it is all said and done, they will have said they did it themselves."-teams response under a good leader.

Tim Lea

Very nice work looks super keep posting pics so we can see how its going..

D L Bahler

here are a couple of pictures of how things look right now. I took them with my phone, so quality is not the best. I jsust snapped a few pictures while I was out cleaning the copper vat and checking maple taps

  

  

 

Axe Handle Hound

Quite the contrast between that old traditional kettle and the modern blue sap saks, but I like them both!  How's the sap running down there?

D L Bahler

Here are some new pictures,

I've been at work on the building off site -cutting and fitting all of the pieces together for the top section. I intend to have a day in the next week or so where I have a lot of folks over to help me stick this all up. Just a few more wall pieces left to fit, then 3 large beams need hewn out for a ridge and purlins



  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

 

WmFritz

~Bill

2012 Homebuilt Bandmill
1959 Detroit built Ferguson TO35

D L Bahler

With all the parts now cut and fit, the structure is disassembled and ready to be put together atop what is already in place. On Saturday it will all go together



  

  

  

BradMarks

Very impressed with your cheese house construction. Give us an idea of the man hours involved, as I've never even hewn a log, that in its self looks like a lot of work!  Sweaty work! I know that building my Cedar board/bat "manshack" took many spare hours over a few years to complete.  Look forward to more progress pics.

D L Bahler

I have not logged the hours, so I really can't tell you.
But I can say it has taken a long time, lots of very physical work. But all things considered, this is the cheapest way I found to build a building to the specs I wanted, and it will really help with image and advertising to have a more or less 'authentic' Swiss Alpine style Hüttli

Ya sure time is money, but in reality it comes down to what you have at your disposal. Do you have a lot of capital available to you? Then I'd say forget about hewing and hand work, and buy nice milled timbers. Do you have limited financial resources but plenty of time? Then I'd say doing this the way we are is the way to go. Right now, we have under $3000 invested in the building, and will probably have in the $5000-$7000 range by the time it's finished out. We'd have 2-3 times that if we weren't doing all of the processing ourselves -hand hewing, hand splitting shingles, building doors and windows, etc.
You just have to be able to live like a pauper while you are doing it  :-\

As for hewing, that took us maybe 2 weeks or a little more for 2 to 3 guys.
Then the actual construction has taken over a year of 'spare time' some times going at it full time, some times not getting any much done for a few months at a time. Most of the construction phase has been me by myself, and I'm sure pretty much all of the finishing stage is going to be a one man operation (partially because I'm too picky and don't trust anyone to do things the way I want them to be  ;) )

In the future I do plan to build a larger structure to house more parts of the operation and convert this original building into a store. The larger one will not be hand hewn. No way, I don't have that time.

That is, unless forestry forum guys want to come down and swing my axes for me  :)

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