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Leaning Tree

Started by oscar4749, March 02, 2013, 04:45:17 PM

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oscar4749

This is a tree that Sandy leaned for me.Iwould like some ideas on how to cut it.
Once it is on the ground it will be the last tree I can move fr

  

  

  

  

  

  

  om the storm.The others are down over a hill that is to steep for my tractor.So I'll have to get a skidder to come in.
Any ideas will help.Also any help on care of this little peice of woods will be helpful.
Thank You
i don't ever want to be rich i just want $1 more than i ever want to spend (texas joe)

beenthere

Looks like you can cut it and get it free of the stump, then if you can get hooked to it with your tractor, just skid the base of the tree out and free it up from the one it is hung up in. Have to take it easy and read the places and times that it will want to pinch your bar. Keep it in control with a good hinge.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Ohio_Bill

I can't really tell from the picture if the tree is leaning into or resting on another tree. If it is not it is a real good candidate for barber chairing. Which is not a good thing?  To prevent that from happening the front side of the tree needs to be cut before the back or it will split up the middle. If it is leaning into another tree it will roll or just stay standing when it is cut.  If you are not an experienced cutter could be dangerous.  IMO  Be SAFE
Bill
USAF Veteran  C141 Loadmaster
LT 40 HDD42-RA   , Allis Chalmers I 500 Forklift , Allis Chalmers 840 Loader , International 4300 , Zetor 6245 Tractor – Loader ,Bob Cat 763 , Riehl Steel Edger

beenthere

It looked to me that it was laying in another tree.
If not, I'd bore it to make the hinge (prolly do that anyway just to be safe) and then leave only a strap to release at the end. Classic GOL technique to use here. ;)
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

oscar4749

Beenthere,I don't want to sound dumb,but what is the Classic GOL Technique?
i don't ever want to be rich i just want $1 more than i ever want to spend (texas joe)

RynSmith

Game Of Logging.   ;)

beenthere

Might just be "classic" to me, but meant the wedge removal, then plunge cut to establish the hinge, and then cut out to leave only a holding strap.
The tree should still be secure until that strap is cut, which would hopefully release the tree.

If there is compression on the holding strap, then a wedge placed in the backcut should keep from pinching the bar. Driving the wedge in should cause the tree to fold on the hinge.
Always be very cautious and alert to what is taking place with a hung-up tree.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Jay C. White Cloud

Assuming you can't or don't know some that can, climb it.  I would do it pretty much the way Beenthere described doing it.  I might put my wedge cut a little to one side, (the direction I wont it to role to,) but other than that it should be plunge cut, then wedged, only leaving a holding strap to be cut last.  Pound in wedge(s) to induce role direction
"To posses an open mind, is to hold a key to many doors, and the ability to created doors where there were none before."

"When it is all said and done, they will have said they did it themselves."-teams response under a good leader.

DonT

You might want to pay close attention to that stump.There is a chance that when the tree stem is released the stump will sit back in a hurry, as it may have a lot of stored energy. I can not tell from the picture if it is actually leaning on,or caught up in the other tree.If there is room to drop it then I suggest the above mentioned method of bore cutting and I might suggest an open faced notch(70 degree).If the  problem tree is going to fall into the other tree,I suggest installing a pull line about 2/3 of the way up the tree,make an open faced notch so the direction of fall is to one side or the other make a small back cut and pull it over with your pull line.A masdam continous(sp) rope puller is great for this. Two excellent books are Gerry Berenacks The fundamentals of general tree work,or I highly recomend Jeff Jepsons - To fell a tree.  If you have any doubts,get better training,or find somebody with the skill set to put it on the ground.A tree like that can go wrong fast.   

Kevin

Depends on how the top is hung.
If the top is off to one side sometimes they can be cut in a normal manner then what you want to do is start nipping the hinge from one side and the tree will roll out of the tree it's hung in.
If it doesn't roll out on it's own then a logrite will usually prompt them to go.
If that fails then a steep slicing cut through the trunk will get it off the stump then you can use a log arch to pull it up and out or get a rope in the top and pull it out.

mesquite buckeye

If the stump drops back into the hole after the tree is released at the bottom, hung on top, the whole shebang could come shooting back over the stump, spin and fall, or a combination. Could be very dangerous, especially if the forces involved are under or mis-estimated. :-\
Manage 80 acre tree farm in central Missouri and Mesquite timber and about a gozillion saguaros in Arizona.

thenorthman

Cut it free from the stump using whatever method you fell comfortable with, bring a wedge to keep it from pinching the bar.  I may fall free after its cut from the stump.

If it don't fall free from the stump, put a choker on it and throw a twist in it to get the trunk to roll away from the tree its hung up in, place the choker as low as possible on the trunk.

Use a cable thats at least longer then the tree is tall and pull it fast and hard, get a little run at it... should spin out and drop like a rock
well that didn't work

thenorthman

sorry dinner got in the way...
Be very careful while cutting this tree up, probably is a whole bunch of debris in the tops.

Also it is possible for this tree to come over backwards, or spit back at ya, or just fall and buck real hard, lots of variables on this one, be very careful

there is another option it involves cutting 4-5' chunks off the stem until it falls the rest of the way, but from your pictures I would advise against this method.

One last thing DO NOT CLIMB IT you do not know what is really keeping it suspended could be as little as a short limb or a cracked branch, and your extra weight could be all it takes to send it and you down...
well that didn't work

beenthere

Quotesorry dinner got in the way...

Just had to get this thread over to food... ;D ;D

That "dinner" must have been one quick one, all of 5 minutes?  ;)
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Jay C. White Cloud

Sorry if my other post was misleading in some way.  In the Arborist trade, we often have to climb these trees, (we aren't tied into them of course,) as there isn't an option of letting them rip through the canopy of the other tree causing it damage or other plantings.  Coming from the Arborist/Climber perspective, an experienced climber, which I was hoping Oscar4749 might know one, can rig trees such as this, to fall in a more control fashion without being a danger to surrounding property or personnel.  It is done all the time.
"To posses an open mind, is to hold a key to many doors, and the ability to created doors where there were none before."

"When it is all said and done, they will have said they did it themselves."-teams response under a good leader.

Forrest277

Quote from: thenorthman on March 02, 2013, 10:51:09 PM
sorry dinner got in the way...
Be very careful while cutting this tree up, probably is a whole bunch of debris in the tops.

Also it is possible for this tree to come over backwards, or spit back at ya, or just fall and buck real hard, lots of variables on this one, be very careful

there is another option it involves cutting 4-5' chunks off the stem until it falls the rest of the way, but from your pictures I would advise against this method.

One last thing DO NOT CLIMB IT you do not know what is really keeping it suspended could be as little as a short limb or a cracked branch, and your extra weight could be all it takes to send it and you down...


Here's what I'd do if I had a tractor at my disposal ...

1. BE CAREFUL - !

2. Vertical plunge cut the centre of the trunk leaving a decent 2-3 inch strap top and bottom.

3. Undercut the bottom strap.

4. Cut the top strap if it doesnt snap after 3.

5. Watch out for the stump flipping back up.

6. Attach a line to the trunk and drag it out with my tractor.


IF I DONT HAVE A TRACTOR...

1. Climb the tree its hung up in.

2. Cut n Clear all blocked branches.

3. Fell it as described above.

4. BE CAREFUL - !


Hope this helps

GF
==
Love my Husky ...

oscar4749

Also I have some ash logs that I have taken out.about 10 of them they look like these.
are they of any value

  

  

 
i don't ever want to be rich i just want $1 more than i ever want to spend (texas joe)

Ford_man

I think if I had a tree like that I would try ti use a throw line over it as high up as I could get it and give it a tug side ways before I done any cutting. It just may come down on it's own. splitwood_smiley

Knute

If part of the tree catches in the crotch of the other tree, you may need a large tractor or skidder to pull it down.

thenorthman

I know several people that have been killed by tying onto a widow maker up high and pulling it sideways or backwards, your better off tying very low and popping the butt out.  You will have more control and limit the chances of the whole tree coming after you.  From the pictures there is only a few tiny branches holding everything up any way.  I've pulled bigger uglier snags with a 20 horse tractor, or a beat up pickup truck, just use enough cable or strong rope and you will at least be out of the way if it goes in some unplanned direction.(please use cable...)

If one of you other guys want to climb it what exactly are you going to tie off too? the tree its hung up in, a bucket truck, everything else is either to far away or to small to be any good...
well that didn't work

thenorthman

P.S. dinner was homemade lasagna, with homemade noodles and and,  I'm spoiled ;D but it was leftovers and only the one piece...
well that didn't work

Jay C. White Cloud

Hi Thenorthman,

At just a cursory glance, I would either rig a sky line to tie into or the tree it is caught in with a "sling shot back-up" somewhere off to the side-(combination there of.)  As a climber, you don't mind falling, you just don't want to hit something in the process...at least not very hard.  Depending on the circumstances, falling/jumping 10', 15,' or even 20' is pretty common place. 

All in all, this is a pretty straight forward "snag" or "hang up."  I do agree with you that pulling from the top in general is not a very good approach, unless you are using cable with vectoring block and tackle to pull the tree back the other way, which can be done, but usually isn't necessary.  I just did one last week, (White Pine,) almost in the same condition.  Once rigged, it came down in about 30 minutes of fiddling with the stump cut.  No heavy equipment used.  I did have my tractor to take the bolts down to the mill.

Regards,

jay
"To posses an open mind, is to hold a key to many doors, and the ability to created doors where there were none before."

"When it is all said and done, they will have said they did it themselves."-teams response under a good leader.

thenorthman

Ten feet is not so bad you feel it the next day but 20' that's about how high I was when I broke my wrist and lost the better parts of my front teeth (fell on pavement...) and I broke one of my collar bones from just a 5' fall...(bunk bed...)

I really don't climb as much as I would like to anymore, mostly cause all the bits that don't line up right anymore(mostly involving high speed and quick stops...) but if your ok with falling 20' be my guest... granted the tree we're discussing here is more like 50'... but hey its your noggin ;)
well that didn't work

Jay C. White Cloud

Hi Thenorthman,

I know how you feel about the "bits not lining up right."  :D :D :D  After this many years (started in 1968 in Yosemite) of tree climbing, (and guiding on stone, caves and mountains,) stuff has been knocked around pretty good, including two broken necks and two broken backs.  It isn't the kind of work most take a liking to, that is for sure.

The falling/jumping part isn't so bad, you are tied in, and most of the fall factor is take'n up by you climbing line.  Slamming into things or them slamming into you is the big worry you have to plan for.  On rock, you can fall on a first ascent climb over 40' feet pretty often just trying to put it all together, and on a good day of big stone or tree you may rack up "fall time" in excess of several thousand feet.  Nature of the game :D ;)  One persons thrill is anothers nightmare... :D :D :D
"To posses an open mind, is to hold a key to many doors, and the ability to created doors where there were none before."

"When it is all said and done, they will have said they did it themselves."-teams response under a good leader.

thenorthman

I was think'n more along the lines of unsecured falls, also known as gees that ground is coming up fast, look at all the pretty colors...

Used to do really smart things like rock climbing with zero ropes, or helmets, it was allot of fun, but one slip and its all over... now... not sure if I'm even flexible enough to pull it off with safety gear, although the last time I tried was at a state fair while still on crutches... made it halfway up only using one foot...

Rappelling can be a hoot too, especially the long falls
well that didn't work

beenthere

Just cut the tree off at the stump and be done with it. Hook on and skid the butt of the tree away from the stump and the top will slide right out of the other and drop to the ground.
All of 5-10 minutes, and not much to it. ;)
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Peter Drouin

I went back to look at what all the fuss was on this tree and all the pics are gone :D  :D
A&P saw Mill LLC.
45' of Wood Mizer, cutting since 1987.
License NH softwood grader.

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