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Ford 9n with loader?

Started by 4speed, February 28, 2013, 12:57:13 PM

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4speed

A friend from church recently finished a restoration on a Ford 8n and wants to sell his 9n. I have no experience with tractors but figured it would be handy on our 4.5 acres. The tractor needs rear tires, smokes "sometimes", and has a good working Dearborn loader on it. He's also throwing in a mower. He is asking $500. Is this a good deal?

beenthere

Might be a good starter tractor to "learn" about them. Not a bad price if'n you don't have a lot of mechanical work that needs to be done.
What plans do you have for the tractor?
The loader would be handy for some things, but picking up manure that isn't too heavy (you don't have power steering) is about what they are good for. Or a sub for a wheelbarrow. ;)
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

4speed

I would mainly use it for mowing and moving dirt around. I might even get a plow and play with it. I rented a small backhoe a few weeks ago and thoroughly embarrassed myself with it. I could use a little "learning."

giant splinter

Ford 9N is a great old rig and you can still get the parts ....... go for it
roll with it

4speed

Thank yall. Going to pick it up in an hour. I don't have a problem turning wrenches. If I can keep my Falcon running, I can probably manage this tractor. ;)

POSTON WIDEHEAD

Like Giant Splinter said, parts are easy to get. And if you can keep a Falcon running,  :D...there is no doubt you can keep this 9n going.
500 dollars is an extremely good price around here.

Post some pics when you get a chance.
The older I get I wish my body could Re-Gen.

LeeB

If you don't want it, I do. Does that answer your question?
'98 LT40HDD/Lombardini, Case 580L, Cat D4C, JD 3032 tractor, JD 5410 tractor, Husky 346, 372 and 562XP's. Stihl MS180 and MS361, 1998 and 2006 3/4 Ton 5.9 Cummins 4x4's, 1989 Dodge D100 w/ 318, and a 1966 Chevy C60 w/ dump bed.

thecfarm

$500 :o Buy that tractor before someone else does. Mower? What type? Load up the rear tires with something when you put the new ones on. Loaded tires is almost as bad as blade lube and oil wars.  :D
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Corley5

Burnt Gunpowder is the Smell Of Freedom

4speed

I'm not sure what kind of mower it is. I've got alot of research to do on it. My friend is delivering it this evening.  :) I will try to get pics and post them tomorrow when I am back at the office. We don't have internet service out in the boonies.

DaleK

I'd be more concerned about the price of the tires than the price of the tractor. Around here you'd be looking at $1200-1500 for two rears mounted on a 9n
Hud-Son Oscar 330
Wallenstein FX110
Echo chainsaws and a whole bunch of tractors

Ljohnsaw

Granted it is close to 20 years ago now, I had a new tire with a new tube mounted for about $200, probably less. That was at a time my big M/S on the Blazer cost $100 a pop. Shouldn't be much more then that. Go direct to the big rig tire place.  AWESOME price.

Couple more things:  check the clearance in the fenders - get as wide a tire as you can fit/afford. Trust me. Also, order the tube with the water stem. You might not fill the tires with water, but at least you could. (You really should :) )
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Ford 545D FEL, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/36" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

Sonofman

I would think the mower alone would be worth 500. I bought one for my JD model B about 12 years ago and it was about 750 at TS.
Located due west of Due West.

chevytaHOE5674

Quote from: ljohnsaw on February 28, 2013, 06:33:51 PM
Granted it is close to 20 years ago now, I had a new tire with a new tube mounted for about $200, probably less. That was at a time my big M/S on the Blazer cost $100 a pop. Shouldn't be much more then that. Go direct to the big rig tire place.  AWESOME price.

Ha you can't touch any new tractor tire for 200 bucks. If you can find a deal 9n rear tires (either 11.2 or 12.4x28) your probably going to be in the 400 dollar per tire range plus tube and mounting.

Edit: your best bet would be to find a decent used set on wheels and tires off a Ford 2/9/8N or a Ferguson TO/TE 20/30 that somebody is parting out. Even way UP north here in the middle of no where that tire/wheel combination turns up frequently.

Corley5

12.4X28 6ply Titan at Bluewater Tire $295.00.  No tube or labor.  We blew one on our 8N many years ago and it just so happened that we witnessed a low boy lose it's tire near the Fox River on M-28 that same weekend.  Upper Lakes Tire in Gaylord took it on trade and the new tractor tire and tube cost 50 bucks.  That was in the early 80s  :)
Burnt Gunpowder is the Smell Of Freedom

sawguy21

Quote from: Corley5 on February 28, 2013, 05:10:30 PM
It's a steal at 500 bucks
No kidding. Can't even buy one for parts at that price around here.
old age and treachery will always overcome youth and enthusiasm

r.man

Good price around here, look for used tires or if they aren't going flat, ignore them. If you need to do anything with the 9N ignition ask someone who knows or look it up on the internet. Easy to work on when you know the trick, horrible if you don't.
Life is too short or my list is too long, not sure which. Dec 2014

Al_Smith

It's a real good price .A Dearborn loader will not lift much which is a good thing because unlike Harry Furgeson who used a steel support member to hold the front axle ,Henry Ford used a cast iron oil pan .

They're not a bad little tractor for what their intent was .Must be tough because a zillion of them are still earning their keep .

As far as finding used tires for a little Ford or Fergey they're like looking for a hens tooth .You don't neccessarily need 6 ply tires anyway ,the originals  were 4 ply and they lasted 40- 50 years before the side walls blew out .Besides that those were cotton corded tires.The new ones are a lot better .

chet

I bought an 8N with a wagner loader, 30 years ago with a shot engine and rottin' tires for $800. Probably the best investment I ever made.  8)
I am a true TREE HUGGER, if I didnt I would fall out!  chet the RETIRED arborist

shinnlinger

My Neighbor hasa 9-N and You cannot go wrong at that price as it is worth more than that in parts as other have stated.  It sounds like the guy you getting it from is also a friend and probably a good resource for knowledge keeping it going if he just restored an 8 N.

The good news is you can get any part you need for it brand new if it comes to that and there is tremendous support for it.

If your mowing with it, it does not have a separate PTO clutch and the momentum of the mower can push you into trouble thru the PTO in a emergency stop situation. The goods news is you can  get a one way adaptor to slip over the output shaft so it will ratchet instead of push in that situation.

Take it slow and good luck!

Dave
Shinnlinger
Woodshop teacher, pasture raised chicken farmer
34 horse kubota L-2850, Turner Band Mill, '84 F-600,
living in self-built/milled timberframe home

Al_Smith

That contraption is called an over run coupling .

FWIW I sold an 8N I got  as part of a horse trade deal over 25 years ago .It was just usable parts because the differential was out of it and I still got 800 bucks for it .At the time that little Ford was worth 1400-1600 and it would have taken another 800 in parts to fix it so it would have been a break even deal .

shinnlinger

Back in the day, they made kits where you could put a 6 or an 8 cylinder ford in them.  Those kits now rare and expensive (as well as the flathead v-8)  but I have seen newer kits where you can put in a 5.0 or chevy small block for reasonable and of course the motor themselves can be had for $500 or less so it may be cheaper to swap motors than rebuild the one you you have.  I wonder if a 4.3 chevy v6 would work since it has the same bolt ups as it's v-8 big brother.  You don't need 300 hp going to the ground in a 9-n!!!!

I might suggest a roll bar in the back and must comment that the loader is a score for safety as well as function as it will help keep the front end on the ground.

:christmas:
Shinnlinger
Woodshop teacher, pasture raised chicken farmer
34 horse kubota L-2850, Turner Band Mill, '84 F-600,
living in self-built/milled timberframe home

samandothers

I learned a lot about tractors on an 8N.  As said when you have much weight on the back you will learn to steer using the brakes.

Al_Smith

I know a guy that had an Opal engine fitted into an 8N .Sounds good  but remember that thing was originally around 22 HP and the Opal was 65 .The flat head Ford 8ba V8's were around 100 .

Stands to reason that just like installing a Ford 289 in a CJ-2 Jeep designed for 65 HP the drive train will suffer .The guy with the Opal broke several axles and a 8N Ford has a fair sized pair of them .It would run down the road at over 50 MPH though if that accounts for anything .How he kept it on the road I'll never know . :D

tractormanNwv

For 500.00? You really can't go wrong with that. All N-Series are easy to work on and maintain, Here in the hills where I'm at anything besides a 9-N or 2-N  is good, but your probably on flat ground so having a brake pedal beside the clutch pedal won't bother you so much. There is a section on    Yesterdaystractors.com   that is dedicated to the N-Series Fords, you can find answers to all your ?'s there. It will be a front mount distributor, and they are a bear sometimes to work on with the distributor on the engine......but, if my memory is correct all you need is a 1/2 inch wrench / socket-rachet and take the bolts out that hold it to the front of motor, and just lay it out on the bench and just go through it, replace / adjust the points, / coil, do it all and just bolt it back up......just LOOK at the alignment on the camshaft and distributor and you will see it is basically impossible to get out of time, I have to give Henry credit on that. If there is excess slop in the steering box you should find adjustments on both sides of the steering box, just a real simple little tractor that will pay for itself in no time.

Jim

thecfarm

The Funk Conversion kits were made really for belt power. As was said just remember you have a 20 hp tansmission with a 100hp motor,or what ever they produced, and you will never get in trouble. I saw one at a show once. It did sound some sweet.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Al_Smith

TRW had some conversions out to up the HP .On the Z-120 Continental engines of the TO 20 Fergies it used 3 5/16" pistons from a Massey 35 and cranked out 4-5 more drawbar HP which was a lot considering the original HP .It took the compression from 6.5 to 1 to 8.5 to 1 .

The Fords were dry sleeve engines but I think a kit was offered maybe original bore but higher compression pistons to enhance them a tad bit also .

Even if a person rebuild one if need to OEM specs either brand of tractor was made in a time they were made to run almost forever and so indeed they have all things considered .

All considered one of those little gems is one of the few things I know that have actually escalated in value over the years .

Okrafarmer

$500 is barely over scrap price. With loader and mower, you have at least two tons of iron. Any N running and driving is generally worth at least 1,000 regardless. The downside is, unless they're a special one, like the Funk conversions, etc, even restored they're rarely worth more than $3-4,000, if that.

If you count all N series as essentially the same tractor, they may be the most numerous such model series ever made. The 9N and 2N are mechanically very similar, but the 8N had some significant changes.

The numbers represent the model years they were introduced for. 1939, 1942, and 1948.

The 9N was the tractor that introduced and popularized the 3-point hitch.

Their simplicity, sheer numbers with few parts changes, combined with the popularity of the Ford cult, means that parts will always be available for those little ants even if parts get hard to come by for other tractors of the same time period.
He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. Psalm 91:1

Operating a 2020 Woodmizer LT35 hydraulic for Upcountry Sawmill, Dacusville, SC

Now selling Logrite tools!

Writing fiction and nonfiction! Check my website.

Al_Smith

Harry Furgeson designed the 3 point hitch .I think old Harry worked for John Deere at one time .

It seems old Harry was pretty crafty.  He conned Henry Ford into building the tractor ,9N I think at the time and he sold them .It was costing more to build them than they were wholesaling them  to Furgeson .So about 1947-48 Edsel Ford dissolved the agreement .

Ford built I think the 8N and Harry built the the TE 20 Fergys in England .A couple years later old Harry built a plant in Dearborn right close to Henry  and the TE 20 became the T0-20 .Later the TO-30-35-40 .Eventually became Massey  Furgeson .Ford ,became Ford New Holland .

Trivia: Sir Edmond Hillary used Fergy TE-20's on an expidition to the south pole in 1958.

tractormanNwv

You are correct Al_Smith, Harry Ferguson designed the 3-point hitch, got in a merger /agreement with Henry Ford, allowing him to build and install Harry's design on his tractors. All was good till Henry got more or less greedy,and the "handshake agreement" was dissolved between the 2.  then  in 1948 the lawsuit came about between Harry Ferguson and Henry the 2nd, that was after Henry passed away in 1947.  The hyd piston pump in the belly of the trans of the N-Series  was part of Harry Fergusons design also....that's why Ford changed to a pump powered by the flywheel of the engine in 1953 better known as the Jubilee, which was a Model NAA....1903-1953.... Which worked out for Ford, cause now they had "live hydrauilcs". Harry sued Ford for  $ 341,600,000.00 in 1948,  in 1952 Harry Ferguson was awarded  $ 9.25 million dollars.  And why did all this take place? Because after the "handshake agreement" was dissolved Henry the 2nd kept using / selling Harry Ferguson's 3-point design on his tractors, without paying Harry any royalties. Some call it business...others call it being a crook.

Okrafarmer

Just to clarify, when I said the 9N introduced and popularized the 3-point-hitch, I meant in the US. I was aware that Harry Fergie had designed it and used it on previous tractors before the 9N agreement.

Harry Ferguson worked for David Brown at one time in his early years. I don't know about the John Deere connection. Deere got a 3-point clone going for the A and B tractors in the early 50's and finalized onto their own 3-point system with the intro of the 50, 60, and 70 around 1952-53. Deere was kind of a late comer to the 3-point game.
He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. Psalm 91:1

Operating a 2020 Woodmizer LT35 hydraulic for Upcountry Sawmill, Dacusville, SC

Now selling Logrite tools!

Writing fiction and nonfiction! Check my website.

tractormanNwv

I knew where you was coming from Okrafarmer.... smiley_beertoast

Jim

Al_Smith

For clarification some time lines are in order here .

Henry George Ferguson ,"Harry" was born in the late 1880's and lived in northern Ireland .Along with several other ventures he owned Harry  Ferguson Limited a sales company and one of their products was Overtime Tractors .Overtime was merely another name for Waterloo Boy which in that time period after about 1918 was owned by John Deere .The first tractor to wear the name John-Deere was the 1923 model D .So that is the link between Harry and John Deere .

Okrafarmer

Ah, that makes sense, Al. you educated me!
He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. Psalm 91:1

Operating a 2020 Woodmizer LT35 hydraulic for Upcountry Sawmill, Dacusville, SC

Now selling Logrite tools!

Writing fiction and nonfiction! Check my website.

tractormanNwv

Even educated me a little Al.....and yes John Deere never built there way into tractors / engines, instead they bought there way in by purchasing a well known established company. I have a  Waterloo Boy 6hp hit and miss engine that was built in 1914,  well before John Deere.



  

beenthere

Yup, that looks like a John Deere alright.  ;D
Good invention Waterloo Boy had der.  8)
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Al_Smith

Waterloo engine works was also started by a man named John,Frolich I believe or something like that.He was a thresherman and Deere was a blacksmith .

Corley5

Don't forget the John Deere "Dain"  :)
Burnt Gunpowder is the Smell Of Freedom

jbpaxton

Know what the 9N ford had in common with the John Deere 4010?
They had the same chief engineer for both projects.  Harold Brock became chief for Ford in 1938 for the 9N project, and later went to work for John Deere and became chief engineer for the New Generation project released in 1960.  He was head of the Product Engineering Center at Waterloo when I went to work there in 1967 and was still the boss when i left in 1974.  Some very interesting work  while I was there.
Jim


jbpaxton

Al_Smith

My father was assigned to the later portion of the project in Dagenham England when Ford first built the "dexra" .Had he not been called back home to head another project I would have finished my junior and senior year of high school  in England .

Slight side track but interesting .While my father was in England he met Denny Duesenberg of the car fame family as well as one on the Vincents of motorcyle fame who were both at that time design engineers for Ford on the little 3 cylinder diesel tractor .

4speed

Well, I finally got myself, my camera, and the tractor all in the same geographic location. An over run coupling was included in the deal along with a top link. Thank you for all the information and history. I have a soft spot for anything rusty and Ford. I have heard of the funk conversions. It probably won't happen, but I do have a 289 out of a '67 Mustang in the shop...


  

  

 

beenthere

4speed
Looks like you are good to go, or soon will be.
That a 5' rotary cutter ?
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

4speed

Yes sir, beenthere. Hopefully I can do some horsetrading soon for a two bottom plow and a box blade. Any suggestions on what to look for?

thecfarm

I can remember the plow that we had for the NAA. I don't know if it was called a 2 bottom or one. The way it worked only one bottom would be in the  ground at one time. Got to the end and My Father would reach behind him and pull a level and the one that was plowing would come up and the one that was up in the air would drop down into the ground. This way the furrows would all be going the same way. I hope I remembers that right.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Al_Smith

An 8N was built to handle a 2 bottom ,12" mounted plow .You could probabley pull 2 14's  though .They will pull a 2 bottom 12 pull type but they will not pull them very deep unless it's real sandy soil .It doesn't run out of power but without the draft of the three point hitch it runs out of traction .

The little 3 point discs were about 6 feet .It will pull a 7 foot standard horse type .Might an 8 footer if it doesn't have much set to it .The scrapper blades  were around 6 feet wide .

It takes a 60" mower to get as wide as the rear wheels .I have a 6 foot Mott flail type for my Fergy but keep in the mind the Fergy has a TRW big bore kit which is 4-5 more HP .I'm sure a stock 8N would handle it but you won't be running in third gear .

If that engine is tired and the cylinders are not out of round like a football usually a set of piston rings and lapping the valves will do wonders for them .

chevytaHOE5674

I would agree on a 2 bottom 12" plow or maybe a 14" if your soil is fairly light . When looking for a plow make sure that it isn't worn out. Most of parts for those old plows are unavailable. Check the moldboards, points, shares, frogs and landsides of the plow to make sure they aren't worn thin/off, as your only option for repair would probably be a lot of hardfacing weld rod and a grinder to bring them back to life. Plowing with a worn out plow is no fun as it will leave a terrible finish and be hard to get back smooth, it will also pull hard on the tractor and burn extra fuel.

If you need a reference to what those parts of a plow are check this link.
http://www.ntractorclub.com/forums/manuals/messages/3835.html

Al_Smith

The saving grace being most Dearborn or Fergy branded plows really didn't get that much use .I think TSC might carry plow shares for the them which most would not need .

These things were made to replace a team of horses for use on small acrerage  .Itty little rascals like an Allis B or C were made to replace 1 horse .

Unlike a horse which you have to feed weather it works or not the little tractors didn't get fed unless they worked .Unlike the horse  you didn't get any fertilzer for the garden .

brendonv

Wow, I would have been all over that for that kinda money!

Good luck, I always liked the look of those little guys.
"Trees live a secret life only revealed to those that climb them"

www.VorioTree.com

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Vorio-Tree-Experts-LLC/598083593556636

shinnlinger

Sweet machine.   Metal looks pretty good.   Score city!    Now what's up with the falcon in the field behind it?
Shinnlinger
Woodshop teacher, pasture raised chicken farmer
34 horse kubota L-2850, Turner Band Mill, '84 F-600,
living in self-built/milled timberframe home

4speed

Thanks again for the info, everyone. shinnlinger, that is a '64 hardtop I picked up a few years ago as a parts car for my other Falcon. It was a straight 6, 3 speed car. My other Falcon was my first car. '64 Hardtop 289, 4 speed, bucket seats and console. It is a Futura model with all the fancy (expensive to replace) trim. It is currently under the wrench. It was supposed to be back on the road by now, but a wife, 6 kids, and a small business later, it is looking more like a retirement project now. :D

johnjbc

I have the same brush Hog. It was made by International  Machine co.
LT40HDG24, Case VAC, Kubota L48, Case 580B, Cat 977H, Bobcat 773

4speed

Thanks, johnjbc. I think it needs a bearing replaced in the bottom of the gear box. Other than that, it looks ok.

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