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New blade mill?

Started by francismilker, February 25, 2013, 08:25:09 PM

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francismilker

Is there such a thing as a new blade mill these days?  I've only seen a few old, antique ones in my area and never seen one that was intact and operational up close. 

I'm interested in the idea of setting one up to run off pto and using it to handle big logs and taking the smaller cants that are made from big logs to the small bandmill. Is this a reasonable idea or would I be money ahead to get a larger bandmill? 

Once again, I know nothing about a blade mill. And I mean NOTHING!
"whatsoever thy hands finds to do; do it with thy might" Ecc. 9:10

WM LT-10supergo, MF-271 w/FEL, Honda 500 Foreman, Husq 550, Stihl 026, and lots of baling wire!

thecfarm

Swingmill? But I don't think you would get a 2 foot cant from one. But could saw boards and 2X real easy.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

francismilker

So you're saying they don't make the big hosses that turn a 48" circular blade with changeable blade tips new anymore? 
"whatsoever thy hands finds to do; do it with thy might" Ecc. 9:10

WM LT-10supergo, MF-271 w/FEL, Honda 500 Foreman, Husq 550, Stihl 026, and lots of baling wire!

thecfarm

I have no idea.  I was just throwing a swingmill into the mix. I was kinda saying why cut a 2 foot cant and than move it to a bandmill? Just do it all at once.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

drobertson

I'm thinking you could find an older circle mill worth the money and use it like you are thinking, I know of one milling operation that does this. the slabs go to a hog, and the cant goes on a band mill round about, taking off boards to the desired cant size.  High speed low drag. It could still work on a smaller scale with the proper set up, lots of rollers and staging area's, 
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

Cutting Edge

Quote from: francismilker on February 25, 2013, 08:54:36 PM
So you're saying they don't make the big hosses that turn a 48" circular blade with changeable blade tips new anymore?

These folks built 'em...

http://fricksawmills.com/
"Winning an argument isn't everything, as long as you are heard and understood" - W.S.


Cutting Edge Saw Service, LLC -
- Sharpening Services
- Portable/Custom Milling and Slabbing
- On-Site Sawmill Maintenance/Repair Services

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Ph- (304) 878-3343

Ianab

I suspect the cost of a large circle mill would be pretty high. Just the amount of steel needed to throw those big logs back and forward. Sure they can cut some wood, but really need a crew of 3 to run properly, not exactly portable (well compared to a trailer band mill anyway)

Now the best machine for breaking down oversize logs would be a swing blade mill. Because the mill doesn't support or move the log, only the saw head, the mill runs on light weight and relatively cheap aluminium rails.

Technically you could saw out cants from a large log, but in reality once you get the mill set up over a large log you would probably just saw out the boards you need. The mills that simple to operate that compared to moving and re-sawing cants, the easy option is to just cut the boards. A basic Swing blade will EASILY cut 4 or 5 ft dia logs, so most of your "over size" logs are a walk in the park.

Ian
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

Seaman

I think Meadows mills still makes circle mills. But I agree with CCFarm, look into a swing mill if you have big logs. Affordable as far as mills go.
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Bibbyman

Probably for only a few big logs a year the most economical machine would be a big, honkin' chainsaw with long bar and ripping chain.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
Sawing since '94

customsawyer

Just send them down here to Danny and I. :D
Two LT70s, Nyle L200 kiln, 4 head Pinheiro planer, 30" double surface Cantek planer, Lucas dedicated slabber, Slabmizer, and enough rolling stock and chainsaws to keep it all running.
www.thecustomsawyer.com

francismilker

Quote from: customsawyer on February 26, 2013, 09:49:47 AM
Just send them down here to Danny and I. :D

By looking at your location, the shipping would eat me up from SE Oklahoma to Georgia! 

I saw mainly small logs (16" and under) but have the option of some really big cottonwoods, sycamores, red oaks, and white oaks. There are several loads of 48" + logs in my neck of the woods and I'll let them grow until I can saw them myself.  Have had multible lumber jockeys try to talk me out of them in the past but don't seem to like the tonage price they offer.  Got burned real bad by a fly-by-night logger a few years back and it left an uneasy feeling for me to this day when selling timber.  He cruised the place and made me an all inclusive offer on all of it but only cut the two semi loads of walnut before leaving without paying me.  Didn't set too well with me.

Since I have no experience with blade mills at all, I don't know how to identify them by paint color or appearance.  There's a few around that have been overgrown with scrubs from sitting in a farmer's pasture for 30 years but they're not for sale.  I've tried to buy them with no success.
"whatsoever thy hands finds to do; do it with thy might" Ecc. 9:10

WM LT-10supergo, MF-271 w/FEL, Honda 500 Foreman, Husq 550, Stihl 026, and lots of baling wire!

francismilker

Quote from: rwthom279 on February 25, 2013, 09:31:51 PM
Quote from: francismilker on February 25, 2013, 08:54:36 PM
So you're saying they don't make the big hosses that turn a 48" circular blade with changeable blade tips new anymore?

These folks built 'em...

http://fricksawmills.com/
Thanks for the link.  By looking at the price sheet, I'm a little under financed for that venture!!! >:(
"whatsoever thy hands finds to do; do it with thy might" Ecc. 9:10

WM LT-10supergo, MF-271 w/FEL, Honda 500 Foreman, Husq 550, Stihl 026, and lots of baling wire!

Ianab

You will also find those circle mills are also limited with log size, sometimes more so than a band mill.

Larger logs like that are common in NZ and Australia, so band sawmills are rather rare. Small circle mills (swing blade and twin-saws) are the norm, and they handle the bigger logs just fine.

Woodmizer makes an oversize band mill that can handle ~50", but that's NOT a cheap machine, or very portable.

Even larger commercial mills are geared towards the smaller log sizes, so they simply can't process the bigger ones.

This leaves you with big trees, that probably have a lot of high quality wood, but no good market for the logs. This is why you aren't getting any good offers for those over size trees.

Check out the Lucas and Peterson links on the right. Those are the sort of machine you need to handle those bigger logs. Their portability means you don't even need to drag the logs out of the woods. It's easier to move the mill in, set up around a big log, and just haul the boards out. Move a 4 ton log, or a 400lb sawmill? I know which one is easier  :D

Ian
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

Ron Wenrich

You can get a pretty good used circle mill fairly cheaply.  It depends on how many bells and whistles you want and how much you plan to run it.  There's a few portables up in Missouri.  Brand new blades are available, but they're pricey. 

I sawed on a carriage that had a 42" opening.  48" is a stretch for that type of carriage.  With a vertical edger, I probably could cut it without too much difficulty, but there's a lot of waste. 

I don't know how much material you are talking about cutting, or if this is going to be some sort of business into the future.  Circle mills can knock out a lot of production in one day.  If you're only going to saw about 100 Mbf, its probably not the route to go.  If you're going to saw millions of bf, that's a different story.  So, your intentions are important to your decisions.

Cottonwood and sycamore aren't really high value wood, unless you want to take the time to quarter saw the sycamore.  High value red and white oak might be of more value in the log than sawn into lumber.  Veneer fetches high prices. 

If you think you're getting low balled by the loggers, get a forester in there to look at your stand.  He could give you an idea of what the value is in the trees.  Maybe you're being low balled, or maybe that's what your timber is worth.  Get someone who's impartial.
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

francismilker

Quote from: Ron Wenrich on February 26, 2013, 07:59:13 PM
You can get a pretty good used circle mill fairly cheaply.  It depends on how many bells and whistles you want and how much you plan to run it.  There's a few portables up in Missouri.  Brand new blades are available, but they're pricey. 

I sawed on a carriage that had a 42" opening.  48" is a stretch for that type of carriage.  With a vertical edger, I probably could cut it without too much difficulty, but there's a lot of waste. 

I don't know how much material you are talking about cutting, or if this is going to be some sort of business into the future.  Circle mills can knock out a lot of production in one day.  If you're only going to saw about 100 Mbf, its probably not the route to go.  If you're going to saw millions of bf, that's a different story.  So, your intentions are important to your decisions.

Cottonwood and sycamore aren't really high value wood, unless you want to take the time to quarter saw the sycamore.  High value red and white oak might be of more value in the log than sawn into lumber.  Veneer fetches high prices. 

If you think you're getting low balled by the loggers, get a forester in there to look at your stand.  He could give you an idea of what the value is in the trees.  Maybe you're being low balled, or maybe that's what your timber is worth.  Get someone who's impartial.

FWIW, the low ball price offered by the last guy to knock on my door was $25 per ton standing.  I felt that was a little on the cheap side.  If that is what it's market value is, I'll keep em' for shade trees and deer habitat.

Side note question:  What does standing hardwoods sell for in a logging area?  Also, what about pine, fir, and other construction woods?
"whatsoever thy hands finds to do; do it with thy might" Ecc. 9:10

WM LT-10supergo, MF-271 w/FEL, Honda 500 Foreman, Husq 550, Stihl 026, and lots of baling wire!

Ron Wenrich

Its all about quality and species.  What timber sells for in PA is irrelevant to what it sells for in OK.  Our markets and quality are different.  Maybe Kansas or someone else in the Midwest can give a better perspective.

Rule-of-thumb for my area is 6 tons per Mbf.  The cottonwood may be a little less. 
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Kansas

We have been giving .22 cents a board foot on cottonwood delivered in. I just agreed to take some loads coming from a ways away, out of the snow area, for .25. Guy kind of threw me though. An older gent. Said he had to have two bits. I had to have that clarified. Hadn't heard that term in years. All this is on doyle scale. We generally figure sycamore hackberry, soft maple, although will end when the market comes back for that, elm, stuff like that as the same price

Ron, or anyone, a logger called wanting to sell me some red oak. I have dealt with him before. He said its the best he ever cut. He has been honest with me.  He wants from 55 to 65 a board foot at the pile. Is he out of bounds on this one?

bandmiller2

Milker,there are few to no co.'s making farm type circular mills now, seems their just building production mills.As Ron suggested there are some good deals now on used mills,mayby not in your area.A used handset circular mill is your best bet for ocasional use,would be hard to justify a new circular mill.If you could find a left hand mill it would lend itself well to tractor PTO.If you have a good old mill and foundation you can cut some huge logs,but like a bandmill large oversized stuff will slow your production. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

loggah

The cheapest way to go with a circular saw would probably be a used Belsaw ,that could be powered with a tractor PTO, but even with a saw with a 48" blade a 2 ' diameter log is about maximum size without ripping it down with a chainsaw. The big old handset mills that could handle big logs also had a topsaw set above their Headsaw. Don
Interests: Lombard Log Haulers,Tucker Sno-Cats, Circular Sawmills, Shingle Mills, Maple Syrup Making, Early Construction Equipment, Logging Memorabilia, and Antique Firearms

ely

kansas,that sounds a bit high to me.

york

Albert

Ron Wenrich

Can't really help you out on prices.  Our quality is different from yours, as is our markets.  We're about 10% higher in the uppers, and that reflects on log and stumpage prices. 
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

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