Felling 60yr Pines, direction problem...

Forrest277 · February 21, 2013, 04:43:15 PM

Hello Forest guys,

Im new to the forum but not new to trees, im glad I found this site from what I read so far feels like I found my brothers !

Anyways, I recently had a strange experience with a couple of largish Pines 60-70 years old bout 25/30m tall, they were growing on a 15/20 degree slope.

I wanted to fell them up the slope as there was a road downside, they were pretty straight standing, so not too much to worry about (I thought), however once the notches were cut, they both really wanted to fall downhill, the back cut was under alot of pressure, so I wedged it as normal. Heres the funky bit, once the wedges were driven in and the fall began, they both went completley sideways 90degrees to the notch. I was kinda surprised. Nothing bad happened as I was in the woods and they did fall into clear ground, but I have never had this happen before. A few degrees here or there OK but this time, like I said they went totally sideways as if the notch was in a totally different direction.

Just wondering if any of you guys have had this happen to you ? I figure the Pine is soft so the hinge wood prolly isnt that strong etc ? One of them also had a real wonky cross section not round, so ...

Any wisdom on this would be really appreciated.

Giles
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John Mc · February 21, 2013, 06:43:44 PM

Pics of the stump might help. I assume your hinge broke. Was the stump rotten?

beenthere · February 21, 2013, 06:58:16 PM

Sounds like you cut through the hinge, or as John said, there was bad wood and the hinge broke.

MEloggah · February 21, 2013, 07:34:16 PM

that'd be my guess as well. without a pic of the stump its a guess. its possible she sat back on ya a bit and you didnt have enough hinge and it pulled the fibers out of the stump and it tore/broke the hinge off. did it happen to spin on the stump at all?

Forrest277 · February 21, 2013, 07:53:06 PM

Quote:
Sounds like you cut through the hinge, or as John said, there was bad wood and the hinge broke.

Quote
that'd be my guess as well. without a pic of the stump its a guess. its possible she sat back on ya a bit and you didnt have enough hinge and it pulled the fibers out of the stump and it tore/broke the hinge off. did it happen to spin on the stump at all?

___

yeah it went down like that _ she did sit back on the back cut (musta bust the hinge like u say)_ it was real hard gettin the wedges in _then she kinda twisted off the stump _ looking at the hinge afterward there WERE broken fibers...not very long but deffo torn _ ho hum ...

its the funny ones where you learn more I guess!

I also think i underestimated the downhill lean _ maybe 5-7 degrees... AND the center wood was way off center....

to be honest I was just glad I didnt block the road ! cos hammerin those wedges to lift the thing back up was entertaining to say the least ...

thanks for replies fellas much appreciated ...

G
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MEloggah · February 21, 2013, 08:07:16 PM

sometimesyou can get lucky and make a short plung cut back in your original cut so the kerf is as thick as the bar and you can drive a wedge in there too. this sometimes gives you enough of a gap to double up a pair of wedges to get ya out of the bind and tip the tree over. better luck next time eh!

simonmeridew · February 21, 2013, 08:55:52 PM

if everything goes right all the time, you don't learn anything, then when something goes wrong--it always does--you don't know what to do.
simonmeridew

John Mc · February 21, 2013, 09:09:36 PM

I'm guessing you either did not have enough hinge wood, so it broke. Or it was rotten to start with

Ianab · February 21, 2013, 09:51:03 PM

the "out of round" would suggest the tree was growing under some stress. so that's a clue as to what went wrong.

Also, the trunks may appear straight, but was the crown even, or more weight on one side? On sloping ground it's more likely that the crown will be weighted downhill, where the branches get more light.

Then the sloping ground can make it hard to estimate lean...

Then if it sat back hard it might have needed more lift from the wedges than the hinge wood could handle?

In hindsight, setting a cable and winching it over would have worked better. But as you say, it appeared like it was OK to use wedges.

Ian

Forrest277 · February 22, 2013, 03:24:32 AM

Quote from: Ianab on February 21, 2013, 09:51:03 PM
the "out of round" would suggest the tree was growing under some stress. so that's a clue as to what went wrong.

Also, the trunks may appear straight, but was the crown even, or more weight on one side? On sloping ground it's more likely that the crown will be weighted downhill, where the branches get more light.

Then the sloping ground can make it hard to estimate lean...

Then if it sat back hard it might have needed more lift from the wedges than the hinge wood could handle?

In hindsight, setting a cable and winching it over would have worked better. But as you say, it appeared like it was OK to use wedges.

Ian

heres a pic of the funky one ...

come to think of it the crown was off center, and looking at this section the wobbles in the trunk were downside...

it all makes sense now !! If she had been near something I would have roped it but it was one of those jobs where I was goin solo so I just did what I could in the time ... I also think the prevailing wind direction has produced something like tension wood ...

always more to it than meets the eye ...

thanks again to all you guys for the replies Mucho Respecto

G
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thecfarm · February 22, 2013, 08:37:08 AM

Forrest277,welcome to the forum.

MEloggah · February 22, 2013, 09:03:40 AM

is that off the butt end?? thats much smaller then what i was picturing. with wedges im surpised it gave you a fit.

Stephen Alford · February 22, 2013, 10:06:38 AM

Welcome Forrest 277 and MElogger to the forum.
Had to deal with one of those rascals last summer. On my way out with a twitch decided to drop a spruce saw log. There is never any question ,is there wind? Only what direction is it coming from.

Found a thin steel wedge years ago and it is just great for opening the back cut. It is in the center of the pic.

Seems to be helpful to have a couple. My favorite is the steel one in the middle. Has ample thickness for the trees in this neck of the woods.

There is an on going argument that I need glasses. "Thats just crazy talk"

MEloggah · February 22, 2013, 10:27:41 AM

a little more wood in that hitch and you could stand that ol girl on end and let her roar!! (i didnt see an air cleaner so i assume its a detroit) hahaha great pics! nice looking TF

Forrest277 · February 22, 2013, 12:07:07 PM

Quote from: MEloggah on February 22, 2013, 09:03:40 AM
is that off the butt end?? thats much smaller then what i was picturing. with wedges im surpised it gave you a fit.

that was the smaller one of the two _ and was not so much as a problem as the one i described in earlier post, it didnt sit back _ its just it fell real wierd... didnt wedge it she fell forward then twisted off the hinge... the other sucker was a different story !

Forrest277 · February 22, 2013, 12:26:58 PM

Quote from: thecfarm on February 22, 2013, 08:37:08 AM
Forrest277,welcome to the forum.

thanks bud _ I work freelance in france ( just for the record !) do quite a wide range of stuff from clear felling, firewood prep, some climb and cuts etc _ whatever it takes ... glad to have found this site _ i love the work and am always outdoors _

i study tree species which is interesting here... in the dordogne the woods are alot of oak (delt with a huge seasoned burl block 1.2m x 1m tall the other day which made me think my saw was blunt ! thats gotta be the hardest wood i ever cut the core was dark like mahogany) some silver birch, alot of chestnut often in round stands of 5-7 trunks and of course pines.

the ground here is really really rocky so alot of the oaks are small but old _ the chestnuts often have been cropped several times in the past hence the multi trunk stands - they always regrow naturally, and the pines are always falling over by themselves eaten alive by bugs. or growing at crazy angles ...

I had to clear a big pine out of an oak last season _ it had grown at 45degrees up and into the oak and was perching on a limb about 25ft up _ cutting that sucker down was interesting. When I had cut the base I could literally move the whole tree balanced centrally on the oak limb _ very odd indeed it was at least a 25m tree so imagine the weight on the oak branch....

so theres another story to share enjoy and happy cutting to all

peace

G
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MEloggah · February 22, 2013, 03:14:50 PM

what do you chop with forrest?

Forrest277 · February 22, 2013, 05:54:01 PM

Quote from: MEloggah on February 22, 2013, 03:14:50 PM
what do you chop with forrest?

a new Husky 236 _ 16inch bar & (modded muffler and air intake, hand profiled teeth & guides).

you probly all think Im mad using a small saw ! so before I get flamed

why I chose it ...

0. Love my Husky !

1. there are not that many big trees here, if you saw what the commercial lumberjacks produce you'd understand.

when i first got here I worked behind 2 lumberjacks piling the wood they cut _( this was all cut to 2m except from the biggest stuff which got cut at 2.5m or 5m) they were clearing 7 ha. seriously the trees here are mostly 40cm or below in diameter... so a 880 is not really needed. They harvested for paper, flooring & pallets. Considering I could lift and pile 95perc. of the wood that shows it not all big.

2. price / performance ratio = fast motor & cheap to replace.

3. I often climb and limb stuff, so i didnt want a huge heavy thing, up there with me.

4. I would like a slightly bigger saw but honestly, times are hard and I go with what puts food on the table.

ok so go ahead flame me >>>> 8)

Ed_K · February 22, 2013, 06:23:53 PM

90% of my cutting is with a 346xpg 16"bar,so no flaming here.I have a 576xpg 20"bar and 394xp 36" bar but why carry the extra weight. :D

MEloggah · February 22, 2013, 06:48:28 PM

i wouldnt ever flame a man for hios choice of equipment. my pop chops w/ a 257xp and a 262xp. not my cup o tea but hesefficiant and they are light. after 47years in business he says its a good trade off.

i prefer my 562xp (not sure how i like it yet), 371/372's are what i generally chop with and my 385 on the landing. im young though 8)

Ianab · February 22, 2013, 07:03:01 PM

Smaller trees, you only need a smaller saw.

Personally I would go a little bigger, but no reason you can't fell trees like that with a smaller saw.

Ian

Forrest277 · February 23, 2013, 07:00:19 AM

Quote from: Ianab on February 22, 2013, 07:03:01 PM
Smaller trees, you only need a smaller saw.

Personally I would go a little bigger, but no reason you can't fell trees like that with a smaller saw.

Ian

indeed _ and honestly i would have to cut alot of bigger trees which arnt that common here to justify the cost _ next season I think i'll step up a bit but not too much _ I really like the flexibility of the lighter saws _ and I have sunk that sucker into some bigger stuff with no problem ...

Forrest277 · February 23, 2013, 07:06:12 AM

Quote from: MEloggah on February 22, 2013, 06:48:28 PM
i wouldnt ever flame a man for hios choice of equipment. my pop chops w/ a 257xp and a 262xp. not my cup o tea but hesefficiant and they are light. after 47years in business he says its a good trade off.

i prefer my 562xp (not sure how i like it yet), 371/372's are what i generally chop with and my 385 on the landing. im young though 8)

nice saw _ I would dig on a slightly bigger motor and tank capacity _ next season _ but for now Im goin out today to do some _ I got my guides spot on and this little thing rips it gooood _ Im gonna cut some lumber for my shack from pine so ill tell ya how it goes...

lumberjack48 · February 23, 2013, 03:30:50 PM

With a saw thats set right and filed right and don't need a big saw to fell trees 8 inch to 30 inches. I carried a Stihl 034 Super with a 16 inch bar, it impressed me everyday. I had a 044 Mag, a 038 Mag, the 034 Super was a superb all around felling saw.

When felling trees up hill, i fell 10 or 11 o'clock, or 1 or 2 o-clock, its much easier then to fell straight up. Especially when cutting smaller trees, felling right hand or left hand you can pull-em right where you want-em to go. And always have the wind on your side.

Forrest277 · February 24, 2013, 04:30:32 AM

Quote from: lumberjack48 on February 23, 2013, 03:30:50 PM
With a saw thats set right and filed right and don't need a big saw to fell trees 8 inch to 30 inches. I carried a Stihl 034 Super with a 16 inch bar, it impressed me everyday. I had a 044 Mag, a 038 Mag, the 034 Super was a superb all around felling saw.

When felling trees up hill, i fell 10 or 11 o'clock, or 1 or 2 o-clock, its much easier then to fell straight up. Especially when cutting smaller trees, felling right hand or left hand you can pull-em right where you want-em to go. And always have the wind on your side.

heres a pic of what the oak looks like... off a stand of three ...