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Drop it or leave it standing

Started by Slab Slicer, February 15, 2013, 07:43:54 PM

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Slab Slicer

I have a chestnut oak along the back of my propetry that has branches dieing out on it. Most are the larger branches, and it now has alot of suckers growing out of the crown. Or what's left of the crown anyway. I have a few pics, and I hope they can give folks a good idea of the condition of the tree. I've been debating on wheather to take it down, or leave it standing. Take a look, and give me some opinions. In the first shot, it's the one with the slab leaning on it.



 



 



 



 
2016 LT35HDG25, Kubota L2501 w/ FEL, Kubota BX1500 w/FEL and custom skidding rig, Stihl MS 500i, Stihl MS362-25", Stihl MS250-20", Stihl MS192-18",  2001 F250 SD 7.3, GMC Sierra Dually 6.0 gasser, Peaqua 16" 10K trailer, Sur-Trac 12' Dump Trailer 10K
Chuck

Slab Slicer

Do y'all think this one has reached the end? What would cause it to lose so much of the crown?
2016 LT35HDG25, Kubota L2501 w/ FEL, Kubota BX1500 w/FEL and custom skidding rig, Stihl MS 500i, Stihl MS362-25", Stihl MS250-20", Stihl MS192-18",  2001 F250 SD 7.3, GMC Sierra Dually 6.0 gasser, Peaqua 16" 10K trailer, Sur-Trac 12' Dump Trailer 10K
Chuck

mesquite buckeye

Cut it before it rots. Dieback of the top of the crown on a dominant tree is the beginning of the end. Pull it and let the other trees grow. They will fill in the hole in a few years anyway.
Manage 80 acre tree farm in central Missouri and Mesquite timber and about a gozillion saguaros in Arizona.

Slab Slicer

That's my other concern. If I do cut it, and the center of the butt log is rotted, how will it affect the fall of the tree? Any way to tell before I cut the wedge?
2016 LT35HDG25, Kubota L2501 w/ FEL, Kubota BX1500 w/FEL and custom skidding rig, Stihl MS 500i, Stihl MS362-25", Stihl MS250-20", Stihl MS192-18",  2001 F250 SD 7.3, GMC Sierra Dually 6.0 gasser, Peaqua 16" 10K trailer, Sur-Trac 12' Dump Trailer 10K
Chuck

mesquite buckeye

The more rot, the more dangerous. You will find out when you start to cut, the rot will be discolored sawdust exiting the cut. If it is leaning the wrong way, you may need to cable it where you want it.
Manage 80 acre tree farm in central Missouri and Mesquite timber and about a gozillion saguaros in Arizona.

Slab Slicer

It does have a very slight lean, and a bit more growth on the side of a safe felling direction, so that shouldn't be an issue. I'll watch for the discolored saw dust as well. If I don't see it in the wedge, I'll assume there's no rot, or only some, more towards the center.

Any tips on keeping the butt log from splitting? I'd hate to destroy any good lumber.I figure I'll do some damage when the 2 leaders hit the ground, but in the past, I never really worried about it, since I didn't have a mill, and I'd be making firewood anyway. Now that I have the mill, it's a concern for sure.
2016 LT35HDG25, Kubota L2501 w/ FEL, Kubota BX1500 w/FEL and custom skidding rig, Stihl MS 500i, Stihl MS362-25", Stihl MS250-20", Stihl MS192-18",  2001 F250 SD 7.3, GMC Sierra Dually 6.0 gasser, Peaqua 16" 10K trailer, Sur-Trac 12' Dump Trailer 10K
Chuck

mesquite buckeye

Lay it the flat way if you can. Usually oaks don't shatter that badly anyway, but you would lose all that nice crotch wood if it broke. If it has a lot of lean, you can bore the backcut and leave a strap at the back edge. That will stop almost all trees from barberchairing. Watch out so your saw doesn't get stuck if the holding wood starts to compress..... ::)
Manage 80 acre tree farm in central Missouri and Mesquite timber and about a gozillion saguaros in Arizona.

Slab Slicer

Never had one barber chair yet. I've seen it though. It can be dangerous to say the least. I like the idea of the bore cut also. No reason to drive in wedges, as it's falling the right direction. I'll be sure to leave enough of a hinge to try and keep it from compressing, and pinching my saw.

The tree just to the right of it in the first picture is a black birch. I was planning on saving that one, but there is a good area of rot in that large leader that you see passing in front of the oak, so I guess that one will have to come down as well. Another tree, jus tout of the pic on the right has little left to it also. The crown broke out, and is losing alot of what's left of the crown. It never healed correctly, and there is rot in that one also. It's some sort of maple I beleive. At least that's what the leaves remind me of. Here's a couple pics of the bark from that one. Any chance to get a positive ID on it?



  



 



 



 

I was thinking american beech, but it's never had any nuts at all, and the leaves arent the correct style. Any guesses?

2016 LT35HDG25, Kubota L2501 w/ FEL, Kubota BX1500 w/FEL and custom skidding rig, Stihl MS 500i, Stihl MS362-25", Stihl MS250-20", Stihl MS192-18",  2001 F250 SD 7.3, GMC Sierra Dually 6.0 gasser, Peaqua 16" 10K trailer, Sur-Trac 12' Dump Trailer 10K
Chuck

beenthere

south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Slab Slicer

After a closer look at the bark, and some further reading, I'll agre with soft maple. Red maple is my guess. At least that's one of the names for it. :)
2016 LT35HDG25, Kubota L2501 w/ FEL, Kubota BX1500 w/FEL and custom skidding rig, Stihl MS 500i, Stihl MS362-25", Stihl MS250-20", Stihl MS192-18",  2001 F250 SD 7.3, GMC Sierra Dually 6.0 gasser, Peaqua 16" 10K trailer, Sur-Trac 12' Dump Trailer 10K
Chuck

mesquite buckeye

Quote from: Slab Slicer on February 16, 2013, 01:24:11 PM
Never had one barber chair yet. I've seen it though. It can be dangerous to say the least. I like the idea of the bore cut also. No reason to drive in wedges, as it's falling the right direction. I'll be sure to leave enough of a hinge to try and keep it from compressing, and pinching my saw.

The tree just to the right of it in the first picture is a black birch. I was planning on saving that one, but there is a good area of rot in that large leader that you see passing in front of the oak, so I guess that one will have to come down as well. Another tree, jus tout of the pic on the right has little left to it also. The crown broke out, and is losing alot of what's left of the crown. It never healed correctly, and there is rot in that one also. It's some sort of maple I beleive. At least that's what the leaves remind me of. Here's a couple pics of the bark from that one. Any chance to get a positive ID on it?



  



 



 



 

I was thinking american beech, but it's never had any nuts at all, and the leaves arent the correct style. Any guesses?

Anything in the fall line that can't take the impact should be cleared out first. That maple has pocket rot at best and at worst is hollow and garbage. You will find out when it is down.
Manage 80 acre tree farm in central Missouri and Mesquite timber and about a gozillion saguaros in Arizona.

Slab Slicer

I figured that one wouldn't be worth much on the mill. Probably end up as fire wood, but like you said, I'll know more when it's on the ground. Maybe I'll drop that one tomorrow, and just for fun, I'll roll a video of it coming down.  :)
2016 LT35HDG25, Kubota L2501 w/ FEL, Kubota BX1500 w/FEL and custom skidding rig, Stihl MS 500i, Stihl MS362-25", Stihl MS250-20", Stihl MS192-18",  2001 F250 SD 7.3, GMC Sierra Dually 6.0 gasser, Peaqua 16" 10K trailer, Sur-Trac 12' Dump Trailer 10K
Chuck

mesquite buckeye

Just an opinion, so take it for what it's worth. Any tree not gaining value is taking up space that could be used by a tree that will gain in value. If I have defective trees, I don't wait for them to fall down on their own. Either I mill them if they are still have some value, or they are killed in place and left to rot down and less likely to damage their neighbors when they  break up. Of course you can't do that around your house, just out in the woods where you don't sleep or have little kids. ::)
Manage 80 acre tree farm in central Missouri and Mesquite timber and about a gozillion saguaros in Arizona.

Slab Slicer

These trees are in my back yard, and will be coming out soon. The oak can reach the house, but would have to fall to the right of it's lean to do that. Same with the maple. I've been nursing a few small red oaks, and hickorys back in that section of the property, so taking these sick trees down will give them a better chance to grow.
2016 LT35HDG25, Kubota L2501 w/ FEL, Kubota BX1500 w/FEL and custom skidding rig, Stihl MS 500i, Stihl MS362-25", Stihl MS250-20", Stihl MS192-18",  2001 F250 SD 7.3, GMC Sierra Dually 6.0 gasser, Peaqua 16" 10K trailer, Sur-Trac 12' Dump Trailer 10K
Chuck

mesquite buckeye

Stay safe and watch out above. Ratty trees drop widowmakers.
Manage 80 acre tree farm in central Missouri and Mesquite timber and about a gozillion saguaros in Arizona.

Slab Slicer

Will do one the safety aspect. Since I'm filming, and plan on posting it here, I'd better be, or I'll hear it from the other members for sure.  ;D
2016 LT35HDG25, Kubota L2501 w/ FEL, Kubota BX1500 w/FEL and custom skidding rig, Stihl MS 500i, Stihl MS362-25", Stihl MS250-20", Stihl MS192-18",  2001 F250 SD 7.3, GMC Sierra Dually 6.0 gasser, Peaqua 16" 10K trailer, Sur-Trac 12' Dump Trailer 10K
Chuck

mesquite buckeye

Quote from: Slab Slicer on February 17, 2013, 10:42:21 AM
Will do one the safety aspect. Since I'm filming, and plan on posting it here, I'd better be, or I'll hear it from the other members for sure.  ;D

When you look at the video, you may see some stuff you didn't notice when you drop the trees. Scary stuff.
Manage 80 acre tree farm in central Missouri and Mesquite timber and about a gozillion saguaros in Arizona.

Ken

All I can add is "wow" what a beautiful looking stand of hardwood in the background.  By the tone of your email you may not be entirely comfortable taking the tree down yourself.  Be extra careful and if necessary have someone more experienced drop it for you. 

Cheers
Ken
Lots of toys for working in the bush

Slab Slicer

Sucess. Both the red maple, and the red oak (My mistake calling it a chestnut oak), are on the ground, with no injuries, and no property damage other than some big dents in the ground. The only bad news is the one big leader on the red oak hit firs, and shattered the crouch, and about 15 feet below that. I still have 26 feet or so of good clear butt log. 24" on the big end, not including a big flare at the bottom. The entire thing is solid all the way up, so some good boards, lumber, beams, will come out of it. There was only 2 small piles of brush to clean up, and that includes the red maple as well, which goes to show how poorly this tree was doing. Still sad to see this one go, but I know it had to come down eventually, and I'd rather it be on my terms.

The maple has a good amount of good wood, but the very center of the pith is soft, with some discoloration out about 5 inches or so. I'll saw the butt logg, and see if it's worth it. If not, I'll toss it in the firewood pile.

More bad news though. My wife shot video of both trees being dropped, or at least I thought she did. We have a total of 2 minutes, and 18 seconds of me cutting the wedge on the oak, and that's it. It's time for this camera to go. I could post the video, but there's no reason to.  >:(  I'll get some pics of the mess tomorrow, and post them then. We were milling in the AM, so we ran out of time, and will finish bucking tomorrow.
2016 LT35HDG25, Kubota L2501 w/ FEL, Kubota BX1500 w/FEL and custom skidding rig, Stihl MS 500i, Stihl MS362-25", Stihl MS250-20", Stihl MS192-18",  2001 F250 SD 7.3, GMC Sierra Dually 6.0 gasser, Peaqua 16" 10K trailer, Sur-Trac 12' Dump Trailer 10K
Chuck

mesquite buckeye

And nobody got hurt...good job. Let's see the wood...... ;D 8) 8) 8)
Manage 80 acre tree farm in central Missouri and Mesquite timber and about a gozillion saguaros in Arizona.

Slab Slicer

Will do on the wood. Not sure when I'll mill this one though. I can at least get some pics of the mess, and the logs. Plenty of good firewood coming from the top, and with some of those 10 dia branches being dead for some time, we loaded them into the house to burn right away.
2016 LT35HDG25, Kubota L2501 w/ FEL, Kubota BX1500 w/FEL and custom skidding rig, Stihl MS 500i, Stihl MS362-25", Stihl MS250-20", Stihl MS192-18",  2001 F250 SD 7.3, GMC Sierra Dually 6.0 gasser, Peaqua 16" 10K trailer, Sur-Trac 12' Dump Trailer 10K
Chuck

Slab Slicer

As promised, here are some pics of the aftermath. The first is a good view of the limited space I had to drop this one in. Right between the black birch, and the stacks of lumber.



 

Here's what happened to what would have been the 3rd log.



 

And here's why it split so badly. You can see where one of the 2 leaders hit the ground first, and the second leader collapsed on top of it. If not for this, I would be alot happier with felling this tree.

 

 

The big end on the butt log  :)



 

And the small end of the butt log



 

The small end of the second log. A little sign of some issues, but still alot of good wood will come out of this one.



 

And some really tight growth rings.



 

Were trying to salvage what we can from the section that shattered. I think we can still make some of this into good boards. Don't mind the slabs in the foreground. Those aren't part of this tree. Just a stack off the mill from an earlier job.



 

2016 LT35HDG25, Kubota L2501 w/ FEL, Kubota BX1500 w/FEL and custom skidding rig, Stihl MS 500i, Stihl MS362-25", Stihl MS250-20", Stihl MS192-18",  2001 F250 SD 7.3, GMC Sierra Dually 6.0 gasser, Peaqua 16" 10K trailer, Sur-Trac 12' Dump Trailer 10K
Chuck

beenthere

Good job dropping that tree and missing the lumber stacks and all. Too bad it busted up like that.

Now, what is wrapped up in the lumber stacks?
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Mooseherder


Slab Slicer

Quote from: beenthere on February 18, 2013, 08:30:55 PM
Good job dropping that tree and missing the lumber stacks and all. Too bad it busted up like that.

Now, what is wrapped up in the lumber stacks?

Thanks guys. It's not my first drop, but one of the tighter spots I've been in  :)

The stacks are 1x boards, 2x4's, and 2x 8's, waiting for some warmer weather so I can build another building, and reclaim my shop for woodworking. They are mostly Norway Spruce, with a little bit of white pine mixed in. Don't worry, the tarps aren't as tight as they look, and I still get air circulation to dry them, and keep the mold away. I'm not so sure about the pile nearest the camera in the first pic, but I did want to cover it. It's black gum that was one of the first logs I milled. Nothing special, but I'm sure I can find a use for it.

The firewood from these 2 trees is starting to pile up as well.  :D



 
2016 LT35HDG25, Kubota L2501 w/ FEL, Kubota BX1500 w/FEL and custom skidding rig, Stihl MS 500i, Stihl MS362-25", Stihl MS250-20", Stihl MS192-18",  2001 F250 SD 7.3, GMC Sierra Dually 6.0 gasser, Peaqua 16" 10K trailer, Sur-Trac 12' Dump Trailer 10K
Chuck

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