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Want the bad news and the worse news??????????

Started by Woodhauler, February 15, 2013, 05:21:37 PM

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Woodhauler

Sappi stopped buying spruce fir today, Madison paper SHUT DOWN!!!!!!!!!!!!  Cheap paper from our freinds across the border helped this happen! Verso is on very limited quota, expect a BIG PPRICE DROP!!!!!
2013 westernstar tri-axle with 2015 rotobec elite 80 loader!Sold 2000 westernstar tractor with stairs air ride trailer and a 1985 huskybrute 175 T/L loader!

Bill_G


mad murdock

Things keep going the way they have been, we will be getting all our paper from south america or china, won't be any other mills anywhere.  Sad times indeed!
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loggah

Times around here ain't the greatest either. The big pine mills in the area are on quota,the pine market is pretty bad, Is Madison just down for repairs?  This couldn't wait for you guys untill mud season!!!!  Don
Interests: Lombard Log Haulers,Tucker Sno-Cats, Circular Sawmills, Shingle Mills, Maple Syrup Making, Early Construction Equipment, Logging Memorabilia, and Antique Firearms

Woodhauler

Quote from: loggah on February 15, 2013, 05:53:19 PM
Times around here ain't the greatest either. The big pine mills in the area are on quota,the pine market is pretty bad, Is Madison just down for repairs?  This couldn't wait for you guys untill mud season!!!!  Don
Madison is down because of the cheap paper from New Brunswick! They got a big gov grant and are making cheap paper!
2013 westernstar tri-axle with 2015 rotobec elite 80 loader!Sold 2000 westernstar tractor with stairs air ride trailer and a 1985 huskybrute 175 T/L loader!

loggah

That sucks !!!! :( we don't even have a paper mill left here in Northern N.H., Berlin,Groveton,Lincoln, all gone in my time.
Interests: Lombard Log Haulers,Tucker Sno-Cats, Circular Sawmills, Shingle Mills, Maple Syrup Making, Early Construction Equipment, Logging Memorabilia, and Antique Firearms

Timbercruiser

We had the biggest paper mill in north america in Thunder bay ontario. Used to be 6 paper machines here. Now ideling one machine. More than 6 other paper mills shut down for good. All saw mills except one shut down. Lots of jobs lost market is way down cant even sell one stick of private wood up here not even spruce saw logs. Hard times all over in the wood business :(

Woodhauler

I am not crappingon the proverince, just repeating what the wood buyers told me.
2013 westernstar tri-axle with 2015 rotobec elite 80 loader!Sold 2000 westernstar tractor with stairs air ride trailer and a 1985 huskybrute 175 T/L loader!

SwampDonkey

Quote from: Woodhauler on February 15, 2013, 06:17:52 PM
Madison is down because of the cheap paper from New Brunswick! They got a big gov grant and are making cheap paper!

Whose the source of your news? What grant? :D  Wood buyers as in a broker or the mill? I think probably a broker looking for some way to soften the blow with his suppliers. A lot of Maine mills always buy our wood, so they must need it. ;)
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

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Woodhauler

Quote from: SwampDonkey on February 15, 2013, 07:03:48 PM
Quote from: Woodhauler on February 15, 2013, 06:17:52 PM
Madison is down because of the cheap paper from New Brunswick! They got a big gov grant and are making cheap paper!

Whose the source of your news? What grant? :D  Wood buyers as in a broker or the mill? I think probably a broker looking for some way to soften the blow with his suppliers. A lot of Maine mills always buy our wood, so they must need it. ;)
Wood buyers for both mills, verso and madison, and i should have said goverment start up money that isn't repayed Like a subsidy. The buyers are employees of both mills !The maine mills won't be buying your wood monday morning!!!!
2013 westernstar tri-axle with 2015 rotobec elite 80 loader!Sold 2000 westernstar tractor with stairs air ride trailer and a 1985 huskybrute 175 T/L loader!

James Arsenault

Lovely. I have some to cut. Think it'll stay standing.

Anyone ever think they would see fir and spruce tank like it has?

What news on our remaining pulp markets?

SwampDonkey

Never heard of it in any government news release, in fact with the government in hole as it is, it's unlikely. But, I'm sure there have been $million filtered into Maine with all them mills that have changed owership in the last 10 years. Seems the name over the door of many of them changes a lot. Pulp mills rarely start back up here when they close up, and they haven't built a new one in decades.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

thecfarm

I heard about verso. But had no idea about the others. How's Rumford doing? You Ok with work,woodhauler?
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Black_Bear

The latest U.S. inquiries into eastern Canadian subsidies were in regards to the Port Hawkesbury, Nova Scotia mill, which reportedly received $124.5 million from the Nova Scotia government. This was towards the end of 2012 and the Maine Forest Products Council reported on it. A quick Google search provides numerous articles on these allegations.

Canadian subsidies may provide a short-term cost advantage, but there are numerous other factors that continue to cripple the pulp and paper industry in Maine. And SwampDonkey is correct, the American mills get propped up from time to time - remember the black liquor program a few years ago? It's hard telling what's actually going on in the global market, but Maine pulp and paper problems extend much further than New Brunswick and Nova Scotia. The NB and NS markets are scrutinized more because they are just next door and are much more tangible.

And what's going to happen during the next spruce budworm outbreak? U.S. officials are closely watching the spruce budworm numbers to the north and many believe another outbreak is imminent. Such an outbreak could inject millions of tons of fir and spruce pulp into an already stagnant market.     

sprucebunny

loggah, the paper mill in Berlin/Gorham is going again but the pulp mill is gone... being turned into a wood chip power plant. They must be trucking the pulp in because the railway stopped running.

There is a newly rebuilt stud mill just north of there in Milan. Their yard is pretty full.
And we have a chipping plant nearby (Shelburne) that fills some satellite yards this time of year.

Doesn't help Woodhauler any but the industry is doing OK over here....for the moment.
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Okrafarmer

Meanwhile, pine log prices and grade hardwood lumber prices have edged up in my area. Pulp has been low here for a long time.
He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. Psalm 91:1

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SwampDonkey

Remember we are loosing a lot of news papers around the continent. Also photography is now mostly digital, books are going to E-readers....on and on. Although, I look around my desk here and there's all kinds of paper. :D
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

bkellyvtme

How can they compete with China and South America paper mills??? Subsidized.. propped up.. doesn't matter when competeing with them. The pay for labor is near nothing.

Mooseherder

Most companies don't use nearly as much paper as in the past.
The price of ink and toner, fixing copiers and printers is another consideration when watching costs of using paper.
I know we only use a fraction of what we used to and only print what is really needed.
My wife brought this home from Office Depot for 22.00
We'll be good for a while or buying ink will break us.



  

 

deastman

Not good news to hear, i've got 4-5 loads on the yard for Madison,  the trucker has been telling me for the past two weeks that he was gonna be here in the next couple days to haul it and he hasnt showed up yet!  Wood broker has a call into Madison's wood buyer this morning to find out what's going on and to see if they'll take mine. With mostly fir to cut ahead of me looks like we're gonna have to switch gears and come up with a new plan for what little's left of the winter.
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lumberjack48

Sounds like the same news we got around here 33 years ago. If i would have known that the logging industry was doing so much better out east i would have moved.
I'm sure sorry you have to here this kind of news, i hope things play out in your favor.

Didn't have Internet back then, it makes the country seems so much smaller now. We put a phone in the pickup in 1993, it cost $1200. , boy have things changed in just a few years.
Third generation logger, owner operator, 30 yrs felling experience with pole skidder. I got my neck broke back in 89, left me a quad. The wife kept the job going up to 96.

Stinny

*DanG... I have a good friend who has been at the Madison Mill for many years. There is no info (yet) anywhere else I can find on the mill shutting down. Is this a temp shut down or for good?
Suzuki 4x4 on Tatou tracks tugging logs in winter

Woodhauler

Quote from: Stinny on February 16, 2013, 01:09:27 PM
*DanG... I have a good friend who has been at the Madison Mill for many years. There is no info (yet) anywhere else I can find on the mill shutting down. Is this a temp shut down or for good?
Temp shut  down, hope for the best!!!!!!!!!!!!
2013 westernstar tri-axle with 2015 rotobec elite 80 loader!Sold 2000 westernstar tractor with stairs air ride trailer and a 1985 huskybrute 175 T/L loader!

g_man

I called my brother who is a middle manager in security at the Madison mill and asked him about this.
He said they didn't make any paper at all last week. They were making more money selling power to the grid because of a downed power generator somewhere. Also said he never saw the wood yard so full. I don't know that is just what he said. He said he can't believe there would be a perminent shut down.

snowstorm

madison paper is owned by a co in finland. from what i found the co. is the largest producer of super calendar paper in the world. 

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