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Pine from Pennsylvania ??

Started by Magicman, February 14, 2013, 10:13:15 PM

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Magicman

I have been contacted about re-sawing some "Pine" beams/timbers that were transported from Pennsylvania.  I have no idea from where in Pa.  What particular species of Pine would they more likely be? 
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

fishpharmer

I'd wager it wasn't Pinus palustris ;).

Lynn, folks travel far for your expertise. :)
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WDH

Probably red or white.  Like James said, definitely not Long-Straw pine, as some call it here  ;D.
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Magicman

Of course our SYP heart is very pitchy.  I am wondering about this?
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

WDH

Red pine is a yellow pine, just not so Southern ( :)), and is subject to being pitchy, just no as much as the Long-Straw.  White pine is usually more well behaved and groomed.
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Magicman

If I agree to saw it, I'll know by the time I finish.  18Mbf.   :o
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

stumpjumper83

white pine would be the common one, hemlock is a common.  Occasionally you get a treat, chesnut but they are getting pretty well schrounged up.

Ron Wenrich

White pine or hemlock.  Very little red pine and we do have pitch pine.  Both are northern yellow pines.  My bet would be on white pine. 
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

T Welsh

Magic, White is the most prevalent native specie. If they are beams and timbers they could be almost anything. A lot of old industrial mills have been torn down and are being recycled. I have seen a lot of different types from Hemlock to Heart Pine to Douglas fir. Tim

Chuck White

Lynn; I would bet the timbers/beams would be White Pine.

If they were good size beams, (12-14") the wouldn't likely be Red Pine!

Takes a lot of years to get Red Pine that big!

BTW; Congrats on getting that job, nice!  :)
~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

WDH

You can tell if it is pine or hemlock by looking for resin canals with a magnifying glass on a clean slice on the end grain.  Pine has them, hemlock does not.
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Magicman

The (potential) customer said that he had three different species of timbers, but only wanted to make flooring from the Pine.

I have made my deal, so he is now talking with the plane/T&G guy.  If they work it out, I will move my sawmill to the T&G location and saw there.  The timbers would be trucked in one load at the time (three) to be processed.  The T&G guy would provide all of the labor for handling the timbers and lumber.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Brad_S.

You haven't mentioned whether it is reclaimed pine or fresh pine cants.
If it's becoming flooring, my bet would be they are beams from an old, demolished mill and are heart pine. As T Welsh said, many of these old mills here in the north were constructed with it. Not much flooring is made out of white pine.
I tried cutting salvage pine once, decided I didn't like it. If indeed it is salvaged material, you will need to work out a price for scanning and removing metal first.
"Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans." J. Lennon

Magicman

Sorry, yup, reclaimed timbers.  The T&G guy would provide the labor for metal removal.  My cost is only for sawing and blades.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Leigh Family Farm

Thats a nice job you've got lined up. I hope you don't ruin too many blades on the timbers, and the T&G helpers do a thorough scan for foreign objects.
There are no problems; only solutions we haven't found yet.

pineywoods

Lynn, it sounds like that may be some of the same stuff LeroyC has been sawing. If it is.... The stuff don't look like it, but it is loaded with pitch. Water and soap don't work. I ty-wrapped a piece of felt to the outboard guide so that it just touches the top of the blade. Soaked the felt with diesel. worked like a champ. His, btw is also being made into t&G flooring.
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Daryl von Cunningham

Hello.This is my first posting! So glad I found this site ..I reclaim Heartpine from old mills , log houses and barns ..If they "cook"(kiln) the wood before sawing it will be easier to saw as the resin will set and it wont gum up as bad...I love the old Heart pine and I have 80,000 bf myself so if you need more give me a call...I look forward to learning and helping other members on this forum..thanks for having me on board(pun intended)..Daryl

Daryl von Cunningham

Quote from: kilgrosh on February 15, 2013, 08:55:20 AM
Thats a nice job you've got lined up. I hope you don't ruin too many blades on the timbers, and the T&G helpers do a thorough scan for foreign objects.
Is that a sailboat in your avatar? I have a Douglas 32 MK II myself..

beenthere

Daryl
Welcome to the Forestry Forum

Where are you located?

How do you come by that much heartpine? We like pics....  ;D
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Magicman

Hello Daryl, and Welcome to the Forestry Forum.   :)
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Full Circle

I
Quote from: Brad_S. on February 15, 2013, 08:33:54 AM
You haven't mentioned whether it is reclaimed pine or fresh pine cants.
If it's becoming flooring, my bet would be they are beams from an old, demolished mill and are heart pine. As T Welsh said, many of these old mills here in the north were constructed with it. Not much flooring is made out of white pine.
I tried cutting salvage pine once, decided I didn't like it. If indeed it is salvaged material, you will need to work out a price for scanning and removing metal first.

Magic, if you take this job, when you are done you will have milled as much salvage flooring as I, so keep that in mind. But to share my (limited) experience, I have been milling some salvaged heart pine and white oak beams recently.  Both are hard going.  The white oak is just hard, the heart pine hard and pitchy.  Regardless of the species, and depending on how you want to set up the job, I strongly recommend you avoid the denailing process entirely and make it clear you are there as a sawyer only.  Some material can be purchased denailed.  I have milled some of this and not hit any hardware.  But I have milled more material that the flooring company crew had denailed that was far from perfectly cleaned.  Having done some denailing myself as recently as the last three days, I can attest to the difficulty of finding every last nail and the time it can take.  It is simply the nature of the product.  I suggest you have your customer supply the blades.  It's neater and cleaner that way.  What I do is keep track of my blade usage for my customer, identifying those damaged by metal, and those that simply dulled.  Very few blades make it to the dull stage (maybe 3 to 1).  Of course your situation may vary greatly from my experience, but figure these are things worth your consideration. 
-Roy



fullcirclefarmandforest.com

GAB

MM:
I charge the blade cost which includes and shipping and a certain amount for lost production when I have to change a blade that was used as a metal detector.
Nails are bad, 1/2" lag bolts are worse.
Gerald
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Magicman

Yup, this is no "done deal" at all yet.  I quoted a bf + blades cost for sawing.  (I always charge $25 per blade.)

An agreement would still have to be made with the T&G guy to supply all labor which would include removing metal, handling the timbers and lumber, plus the plane/T&G of the lumber.

This would certainly be a totally different gig for me to saw something other than round logs.  It is out of my hands right now and time will tell.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Sawdust Lover

Magicman, Not that I know everything about heart pine timbers but I have sawn close to 10,000 bf ft this year. The only problem I see here would be doing it by the bf. I have bought alot of timbers and find that it is hard to get production cutting around checks in the beams. If you are sawing this for flooring they may not want cracked boards. If so, there is a huge waste factor. I sometimes only get a few good boards out of a 10x14" beam. Good luck!

Magicman

Dat would not be good, and like I mentioned, this and one more timber job would make two for me.  My logs are usually round.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

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